warshadow212

Theoretically, all these non-skill updates (GE, Duel Arena, BH) were to bolster the economy. I see too many low lvl "noobs" begging still. "Can I have 1k gp?" "May I have a few coins?" "I want an addy pl8body free" "I want steel arrows!" Blah blah blah. It's a real noob-fest in f2p GE. These updates were meant for legit players to gather raw materials and sell legit. Unfortunately, all the newcomer noobs and 2nd or multiple accounts are coming on, and taking advantage of not doing any work. WORK HARD YOU NOOBS!!! ~WSW~

ashes keep increasing every 1 to 2 days, about 1 to 3 gp ea. current prices are about 39-41, i might be mistaken, havent sold some in a couple days. made tons of money selling and buying ashes.

You know, every p2per who replied (except for the one who disclaimed himself as a p2p elitist) is a freakin elitist! OMG, i have never hear such BS in my life from some of you p2p noobs! "f2p dont pey." "get a card." "send money in envelope. duh" "f2p got bankspace" heh, wonderful. except, I didn't need extra bankspace thanks. I have been p2p before, WILL COME BACK sometime, after I get to my goals. Maybe. I did do Agil arena from lvl 1 to 31. IT was long, not hard. Thanks for your false concern there, kill thomas9. Real nice. DT - what was I thinking? sorry, even I made a mistake, and I take it back. Sorry. Took it off the list. P2Pers, let me let you in on a little (aka well known, not-obvious-to-you,-obviously) secret: # F2Pers >>> # P2Pers. The little $5 a month you pay is chump change compared to the revenue they're getting from advertising. Google doesn't charge people to use their site, they sell ad space for big bucks. Everyone's caught on. $5/month is peanuts to JaGEx. Heh, it's like hook, line, and sinker for a lot of ya. ~WSW~

Unfortunately, all those 12-16 yr olds found this game from Miniclip. So, the ideas of beer and opposite sex to them, if they're engrossed in this game, are slim to no chance in registering those ideas to their brains. Thx for the support, and ideas, and yes, there's a possibilty of this not even happening, but it's there - the chance is there. I made this thread as a 2nd viable idea, instead of f2p summoning. ~WSW~

With the impending release of Summoning in Jan 2008, we've heard theories and speculated too much about the possibility of f2p getting a bit of the new skill... BUT! Have we thought about JaGEx actually dropping an old p2p skill into the f2p crowds? Hmm? Seems to me, no one recently, except for me, has discussed this notion. Sounds exciting, yes? It should. Think about it, wouldn't a f2per love to fletch a couple arrows? or mix a couple potions? or run faster than the wind? Sure, that's what you pay for $5 a month, but still, p2p is getting summoning. Who's to say that Summoning will partly be f2p? Certainly not you little ones, you readers, certainly not you. Theory: Just as possible it is to make summoning f2p, or make a theory of that, it's possible for the idea of JaGEx putting an old p2p skill into f2p. Yes, equal opportunity arises in this situation. JaGEx does not think like all you people out there. They own this business of RS. They control the situation, we don't. It's not always, "Oh, let's put a bit of a new skill into f2p." No, it could be that, "Hey, let's rejuvenate the game by dropping a skill into f2p, making it worthwhile for f2pers to remain in the game!" I've seen JaGEx do an excellent job of keeping players in the game. One thing JaGEx uses in their attraction is the platform - Java. It is a complex language, believe me, but to make a whole game of it, extensively maintaining it, is why ppl even bother playing it. There is still a spark of awe in ppl, when they start playing this game. Repetition is simple, interactions are simple, and that's why ppl even bother to lvl to 99. Theoretically, it is supposed to be easy to lvl to 99, but rather tedious and tiresome. And, well, after 99, there's nothing to do with raising that skill (except for 200mil exp, and then you ask yourself, do you bother doing that?), and you move on. The second, and this is where I can somewhat agree on a lot of ppl here - catering to the masses, both p2p and f2p. This is where the debate lies. To place Summoning into p2p places an elite class of 127s+ in members, while in f2p - the max is 126. Hard to say, why wouldn't one (f2per) want to join p2p to get to 138? It's not stupid at all to keep it that way, that's a big hook into getting f2pers into p2p, and keeping p2pers in RS at all. You think that Summoning was made for f2p, forget about it! They don't just make skills for all! They update to the paying masses first, then the labor forces later. Sure, it's possible JaGEx will put a part of the new skill into f2p. To place even a small portion of Summoning into f2p, however, relies on the basis that Summoning has to be that amazing of a skill, that worthwhile of a skill to even put a bit into f2p as a "demo". Yes, if one completes in f2p the portion of Summoning available, and wants to continue in p2p, they'll weigh the impact of the skill enough to pay for it. Just for the record, I'm f2p atm. Been p2p, liked it, will def. consider coming back onto it. Let me reiterate that: 99 Atk/Str/Def/Mag/Prayer/HP = 126 cmb All these skills can be raised in f2p and p2p. Unbalanced for the most part, but achievable. ------------------------------------------------------------- However, to the balance of slayer/farming/construction/hunter that p2p's seen since the switch from RSC to RS2, I see a couple skills that could potentially be dubbed down to f2p status (only 1 out of these might possibly be chosen to be f2p): 1) Fletching: Mages have RCing (RuneCrafting), Warriors have Smithing, Rangers need Fletching in f2p. Evens things out for everyone. Money market for beginners. Money saturates into the economy, to the point, prices will go back up again like normal. 2) Construction: could be dubbed down to the point where f2pers could build a basic house, with a limit of max 20 rooms, even lvl 99 in f2p construction. (20 max could be changed, however, to a lower number)(no portal room for f2pers ). Money drainage from an already-dumbed down f2p economy. :S We already have estate agents stationed in Fally and Varrock, it's plausible. 3) Herblore: extensive items/ingredients that will saturate the market. Herblore market is pretty stable, and will make f2pers possibly join p2p. Make atk/str/def/energy/antipoison/restore potions creatable in f2p, rest p2p. Creates high demand for new skill items & ingredients, will boost a stagnant p2p herblore market. Opens Taverly up to do Druidic Ritual to start Herblore. Demand for ingredients of the new skill will rise high, so prices will rise. Try selling a wfv for more than 110 gp, you'll see high demand for wfv's, those particular f2p herbs, and 2nd ingredients in the f2p market. I heard revs poison in f2p, so why not? Perfect intro to the safety of those who go into the wildy. *Herbs (grimy) in f2p can be dropped by Men, Women, and other npc's on f2p that are able to drop these normally on p2p/GE. **Mortar & pestle, vials can be bought in Taverly, assuming Herby becomes f2p, you need Taverly to do Druidic Ritual. Atk Pot (3) - (lvl 3) - guam leaf + eye of newt (both attainable - eye of newt can be bought in Betty's Magic Shop in Port Sarim/GE) Antipoison Pot (3) - (lvl 5) - marrentill + ground unicorn horn (both attainable if unicorns drop horns in f2p/GE, you're able to buy mortar & pestle in Taverly/GE) Str Pot (3) - (lvl 12) - tarromin + limpwurt root (both attainable - NPC drops/GE) Stat Restore Pot (3) - (lvl 22) - harralander + red spiders' eggs (both attainable - eggs from Varrock Sewers/GE) Energy Pot (3) - (lvl 26) - harralander + chocolate dust (both attainable - Chocolate bars/dust on GE; Cooks' Guild) Def Pot (3) - (lvl 30) - ranarr weed + whiteberries (both attainable as long as JaGEx puts a bush or two in f2p areas)*** *** Because def pots depend on ranarr weeds, we will def see a major rise in price for these - one for the new f2p market, two, prayer pots are uber awesum. 4) Agility: Why I believe this is the most potent skill to be dubbed down to f2p - we can already recover run energy faster, if agility lvl > 1. I have 31 agil, from my time in p2p, and I find somewhat of an advantage with it, thankfully, than with 1 Agility. Just Brimhaven and the Wildy ones can easily be opened up for the Agility Arena. (No Shilo Village/Tai Bwo Wannai for f2p though, please). Or add a new F2p agility course, made similar to Gnome Stronghold's basic one. Run energy recovery carries over from p2p to f2p. Why not make it a skill to level up, without raising combat? Disclaimer: I put in ideas here that can cleverly merge parts of p2p skills to f2p, not put the whole skill into f2p. Not like an f2per can get to 99, going to wildy agil arena, or create rune arrows. Wow... heh that would be madness! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Skills that might not make it to the chopping block: - Hunter/Farming/Construction/Slayer - most recent additions to p2p skills. They won't think about it. Construction I put up in the possible section, only because it's possible to put up barriers on how big a house, and how much stuff a f2per can make. Like crafting. You can't make bracelets in f2p, can you? nope. You're not gonna make a gilded altar in f2p, unless you pay for it in p2p. Hunter and Farming too extensive to put into f2p. Slayer, just not worth putting into f2p. - Lunar Magic - too new. - Thieving - Well, it would be cool, as a lvl 3 acc, to actually pickpocket a man and get killed by it as well. There's the possibilty that the man will do 10 damage (1 or 2 damage at a time per thieving exp) and send you back a couple blocks in Lumby. But Ardougne is p2p, and too big a town to put the mecca of thieving, as well as Burthorpe (home of the Rogue's Den). So, no I don't think so. ----------------------------------------------------------------- *Turns on the hothead* I'm pretty tired of some of you simple-minded twits playing RS. *Turns off the hothead* You should think outside of your little boxes. Think more than 1 solution to the problem. This is just one of them. I'm not saying Summoning will not be part-f2p. If it is, that's extremely cool. But if not, this is a better solution. If any of you readers have any more suggestions and ideas as to which skill can or can't be dropped into f2p, post them, and I will give you full credit for it. CREDITS: Wise words from a wise mod. Thanks, mchain. [i still have to go thru the thread to pick out some key pts. Thanks for your patience.] ~WSW~

lvl requirements are the same as if u were pking. if ur lvl 3 miner, and go up to the run rocks (approx lvl 48-49), u can get atked by a lvl 51-52 rev. assuming they even walk up around there, i dont doubt it. These revs were meant to replace pkers. So, tough if you want to fight em, but get pwned. Serious. JaGEx threatened to make the wildy dangerous again, only this time, no one reaps profits off of other players, except for JaGEx recycling those drops. I haven't gone out to the wildy since i lost in BH my once and only time. I haven't found 1 rev yet to fight when I was going up to BH (I got lost a bit). If i'm hearing correctly, you can get poisoned in f2p. you can get tb'ed in f2p. You can also get frozen in f2p. Wait, what??? TB doesn't exist anymore with players. The lvl 85 spell is now Bounty Locate. Dumb spell IMHO, since all the hunters come at the weakest target, 5 on 1, 6 on 1, 9 on 1. But, JaGEx gives TB to revs? What's up with that? Poisoned? Well, well, I see an f2p intro of Herblore in the works. I was talking about this in the thread "Summoning F2P?", where we might not get a taste of Summoning, but we will however get an old p2p skill bumped down to f2p status. I discussed which skills could potentially be dropped, herblore being one of them. Well, only a portion of herblore, enough so that f2pers can make atk, str, energy, restore, antipoison, and def pots. It's a taste of p2p in f2p, so that more f2pers become p2p. It also helps a stagnant p2p herblore market - demand for ingredients of the new skill will rise high, so prices will rise. Try selling a wfv for more than 110 gp, you'll see high demand for wfv's, herbs, and 2nd ingredients. Frozen... not much u can do about it. We have bind (5 second freeze). They have entangle, correct, or am I to assume they have ancient magicks' ice spells? If the latter is correct, f2p will probably see the opening of the Shantay Pass, and the Al-Kharid Desert that was once p2p will become f2p, and Desert Treasure will become... F2P!!! dum dum dummmmm.... I hope that doesn't come to that. But at least, if herblore becomes f2p, then Taverly will become open. ~WSW~

I have to say, well, I want to say STFU to a lot of flamers on this thread. Brando and co. - I have to say, when you say that JaGEx will put Summoning, a portion of it, onto f2p, in my previous replies on this thread, I never said anything about Summoning not being f2p. If I did, please do quote me if I did, I do apologize for misleading you readers. I'm certainly not someone important here in RS. I have meager skill lvls. I however have been playing since 2005, it amazingly hit me when ppl asked me when I got the jester hat & scarf. I've seen quite a bit since getting on RS. I've seen JaGEx do an excellent job of keeping players in the game. One thing is the platform - Java is a complex language, believe me, but to make a whole game of it, extensively maintaining it, is why ppl even bother playing it. Repetition is simple, interactions are simple, and that's why ppl even bother to lvl to 99. The second, and this is where I can somewhat agree on a lot of ppl here - catering to the masses, both p2p and f2p. This is where the debate lies. To place Summoning into p2p places an elite class of 127s+ in members, while in f2p - the max is 126. Hard to say, why wouldn't one (f2p) want to join p2p to get to 138? It's not stupid at all to keep it that way, that's a big hook into getting f2pers into p2p and keeping p2pers in RS at all. To place even a small portion of Summoning into f2p, relies on the basis that Summoning has to be that good of a skill, that worthwhile to even put a bit into f2p as a "demo". Yes, if one completes in f2p the portion of Summoning available, and wants to continue in p2p, they'll weigh the impact of the skill enough to pay for it. ~WSW~

ahem.... look at my previous post on (page 10 of) this thread. We most likely won't get even a portion of Summoning. But, one of the skills I mentioned above there might possibly get bumped down to f2p status. Frankly, I dislike range, but I support fletching to f2p, or agility. Yes, I feel like I clicked enough times to pay for this game in clicks. But we still keep on playing. Cuz it's fun. Deal with it, get over it, make it yours. ~WSW~

For the record, I'm f2p atm. Been p2p, liked it, will def. consider coming back onto it. On topic to summoning, yeah i guess this is a way to create an elite class of 127+ in p2p, making it WORTHWHILE to raise combat in p2p, even though there's not more PKing to do. BH doesn't count, don't act like it does, moving on. You think just because a p2p feels special because they can get 126, doesn't mean all 126s are in p2p. Let me reiterate that: 99 Atk/Str/Def/Mag/Range/HP = 126 cmb All these skills can be raised in f2p and p2p. Unbalanced for the most part, but achievable. However, to the balance of slayer/farming/construction/hunter/summoning that p2p's seen since the switch from RSC to RS2, I see a couple skills that could potentially be dubbed down to f2p status (only 1 out of these might possibly be chosen to be f2p): 1) Fletching: Mages have RCing (RuneCrafting), Warriors have Smithing, Rangers need Fletching in f2p. Evens things out for everyone. Money market for beginners. Money saturates into the economy, to the point, prices will go back up again like normal. 2) Construction: could be dubbed down to the point where f2pers could build a basic house, with a limit of max 10 rooms. (10 max could be changed, however, to a lower number)(no portal room for f2pers :|). Money drainage from an already-dumbed down f2p economy. :S 3) Herblore: extensive items/ingredients that will saturate the market. Herblore market is pretty stable, and will make f2pers possibly join p2p. Make atk/str/def/energy potions creatable in f2p, rest p2p. 4) Agility: Why I believe this is the most potent skill to be dubbed down to f2p - we can already recover run energy faster, if agility lvl > 1. I have 31 agil, from my time in p2p, and I find somewhat of an advantage with it, thankfully, than with 1 Agility. Brimhaven can easily be opened up for the Agil Arena. (No Shilo Village/Tai Bwo Wannai for f2p though, please). Run energy recovery carries over from p2p to f2p. Why not make it a skill to level up, without raising combat? Summoning is related to Hunter. No question about it, those skills deal closely to animals. Move on with your lives. Don't get hung up over it. No relation to keeping it p2p. ~WSW~

Bounty Hunter sucks... i got mugged, MUGGED, not pwned, by 2 lvl 100s. One of them being my target, and I'm only lvl 78. This forces me to get to lvl 100 myself and pwn in Bounty Hunter. But hmm, cmb lvl 100 from 78... well, i don't think in any time soon, will I be gettin there. I didn't lose much, in a lot of people's eyes (a fire staff, 25 deaths - half my stock, 20 lobs, not much rly) I won't go there again, until Bounty Hunter is removed/I'm lvl 100 cmb/Bounty Hunter changes limits from 56-105 to 60-90. I don't mind dying while being PKed in the old Wildy. I went there with full intention of joining my clan in killing other clans, and some stragglers. But separating clan killing and straggler killing with these new updates is totally unfair. (This is supposed to be a democracy!) ~WSW~

I said in INVENTORY, not EQUIPMENT screen. Two different things... Might I add/define... Inventory - the screen in which you keep up to 28 items in your bag. Equipment - the screen in which all wearable items can be seen GP - gold pieces, RS currency, stackable non-GP items - any item able to place in Inventory, stackable or non-stackable, that is not itself GP. ------------------------------------- Ok, i said 20k in non-gp items. I say this only because what can a bot/dropper bring? a couple gems, 2 rune meds, 1 rune full? thats gonna not be worth having a dropper. If you do a 40k limit drop, that's rune legs, and dds. aint worth risking that. But yeah, i see the 2h in that case being compromised. EDIT: "up to 40k in non-gp items" And, could someone from members tell me the current market values of dds, dd+, dd++? much appreciated. Oh, and no, it's feasible to provide a limiter code into the wildy code. As you can see, the limiter gauges how much is on each side. This limiter code in trades, can be copied, tweaked (minor) so that it works like an "invisible" trade between "the Wilderness" and the player. The limiter finds more than 20k/40k in non-gp items, and says you can not go into the Wildy. Kinda like every other limiter code in the game, with lvls, or exp, or certain quest items needed in your inventory. It's very possible to do this. I support all my ideas, always. Unless I say so. I support the author of this thread, only if his overall argument and action towards getting back the RS Wildy is successful. ~WSW~

Well, we all know, all code involved in all trades includes a 3k limiter code... How about, when you cross the Wildy, you can't bring in your inventory, more than 3k in gp, and more than 20k-gp-value's worth in your inventory in non-gp items... it should be simple enough to do that...

I'm sure, if you've logged on today, 12/13/07, you've read JaGEx's rationale for their "rash" decision. If you haven't read JaGEx's rationale for their "rash" decision, here's a direct quote from them (no, it's quite all right, just click the hide box): [hide] [/hide] JaGEx's decision to do what they did (Grand Exchange + 3k/15min limit + Bounty Hunter + Clan Wars + F2P Duel Arena) based on the rationale of the numerous tidal waves of complaints about the bots and goldfarmers in third-world, Internet-affluent nations running and ruining the economy of RuneScape. For those who don't follow: "Mr. JaGEx, that lvl-3 person is cutting a yew. How he do that? He no talky. Please stop him." + "Mr. JaGEx, that lvl-3 person is mining pure ess. How he do that? He no talky. Please stop him." + "Mr. JaGEx, that lvl-3 person is [insert every bot-related repetitive skill]. How he do that? He no talky. Please stop him." x 1,000,000,000. They were tired of complaints. So they shut all of us up. Well, I didn't complain, but the rest of you... most of you... :-w ... :shame: We cry and cry, they put a pacifer in our mouths. And shoved it. And it hurts. That's what a lot of you are thinking, in simple terms. Well, you get what you deserve (complainers got their wish of RWT to be crumbling down.) Unfortunately, bot = regular, honest-to-goodness player = pixels in files. No discrimination between any of it. Except the obvious signs. But, not enough manpower or money to pay that manpower to mod the worlds. Too many servers to make people happy = not enough money to pay Jmods in all those servers. Let's all learn from this grave danger. Bot = no good. Let's not bot, shall we? I've never, and never will. Bot-farmers, hope you've learned your lesson. :shame: \ EDIT: my 69th post. w00t!

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Um, can we think about this rationally? You guys are over-hyping this situation out of proportion. Yes, 3k in 15 minutes cap is cr.ap.py, but don't you think JaGEx would have wanted someone to say, "In time, this will weed out a lot of players out of the game." ? They've already had many people say this statement. Guess what? Regular old players are not the only ones that will be leaving. JaGEx hopes that the people who use bots to farm gold will find it extremely slow and pointless to do this anymore. 3k in 15 mins = 12k in 1 hour = 288k in 1 day. That's not profit, if you're one of those websites that offer 10mil gp for $35USD. Not effective enough for them to stay in business. That's why JaGEx implemented this in December. Why December? Obviously, anyone playing this game can tell you that December is the last month of a year. Very good! Well, typically, like the U.S. President gives a State of the Union address in January, stating changes they will (try to) implement to fix the nation. Now, tell me, wouldn't it be effective to scare these botfarmers during the holiday season, when people will spend crazy? (Your answer should be YES, people will spend crazy on RS gold for RW money, especially in the holiday season; if you say NO, there better be a really, really humanistic reason to think like that, which I doubt.) I predict JaGEx, prediciting themselves the outpouring of complaints over "No PKing!" "JaGEx, uh, we mean, the GE rules the market now!" and etc, will lift the caps to a more sane number. Look for botfarmers to decrease. Not even the people who "operate" yew and ess autoers can resist the thought of losing MAJOR money and not leaving RS. I agree with Qeltar 100% on his statements. I thank TIF staff for bringing his veteran economic experiences in front of us. Truthscape is awesome. However, I can't believe we've shortsighted ourselves into possibly thinking JaGEx has prepared for the complaints. Or they can always save face, let alone their arses, from further humiliation come January. :D ~WSW~

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bumppity bump please rate some more!

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Thanks, tryto. Really, I didn't want to bother looking at the area, cuz 1) i was down about 1/2 my hp to fight a lesser, and 2) fighting a lesser, then following up with another lesser... didn't want to die. I have some pathetic excuses, dont I? lol. sorry. thanks for the tip. ~WSW~

Looks much better. Good beginner's guides for those who want to make money with some honest, decent work. 8.5/10 <- would give it a 9, but since this is pretty much a compilation of a lot of beginner's guides, 8.5. ~WSW~

New updates: 1. Separated monster hunting into 5 sections, under step 6 of section VI. Procedure. Mosses is still a huge section. Will elaborate on the others later, but coming up. Still formulating a way to say, certain ones of them are [cabbage]. (I put that myself. No mod corrected me. I felt like saying cabbage, it tickles. Heehee.) 2. Added safespot pics. All so far found in the island. None for lessers (they've cut the landscape to that of a volcano's remains, ashy and black.) 3. Just to reiterate, added the new "EXP Per Hour" Section. You'll find the appropriate exp you get for each monster, and with what style you use. ~WSW~

thanks, all! on a side note from all the suggestions, i could use some help with gathering data. I know I'm supposed to be doing the work, but I'm dealing with final exams at the moment. Thanks for the suggestions, all! EDIT: added EXP Per Hour section. Hope it helps, with mosses. My average might differ from higher and lower cmb lvls. ~WSW~

Havent been on in about 2 days. Did not hear about the spam. Thanks, mods. To all - haven't had the time to look for exp stats. Will compile data for every skill ASAP. Thanks for your patience. NEW RELEASE: Added "EXP Gained, by Monster" Section. Only a basic section so far, will get more in depth, just let me know what else exactly you want, exp-wise. Thanks. ~WSW~