Defending bots

[Elessar3019]

Earlier today, I was reading a PMG on taking advantage of bots in the Watchtower quest dungeon, the Ogre Enclave. The guide detailed the various ways of confirming whether a character was being run by a bot or not. These methods included talking, trading, and following.

 

 

 

Yet still, there were more negative responses to the thread than positive. I didn't count exactly, but there were more people saying, and I quote, "maybe all those people just don't want to talk to you or trade you or bother to tell you to give back their arrows." And I'm not saying that it was one, maybe two people who said this. No, more than half the replies were along these lines.

 

 

 

So my topic here is: why do people continue to defend bots? I see this all over the place, where normally reasonable persons will provide callow and half-though-out repudiations that make them sound like it was their bots that got reported and banned. Why? Perhaps one of the persons who said something like the quote above would care to explain their reasoning? I can see no reason to continue to defend bots, especially since Jagex has really started to crack down on macroers and gold farmers in the last few months.

[NJE03]

I really don't see any other reason why they would defend them unless they are actually using them themselves.

[TheWilch]

YOU PERSONALLY have no other proof then

 

 

 

"omg he/she wont interact with me personally"

 

 

 

sorry but neither will i, am i a bot? no.. and i dont use one either.

[Smokie]

YOU PERSONALLY have no other proof then

 

 

 

"omg he/she wont interact with me personally"

 

 

 

sorry but neither will i, am i a bot? no.. and i dont use one either.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

It's a fundamental question of privacy vs. law enforcement. I think it's unfair to say that people who don't want to chat with others at every opportunity are defending bots. To use your examples, yes, very frequently I do not want to engage in the conversation that is occurring near me, and when I'm ranging, sometimes I don't care to pick up my arrows because in my mind it's not worth the trouble (lots of wasted time, really, it adds up in the end). In any case Jagex (law enforcement) can pick up on macro algorithms and whatnot a whole lot more accurately than the average player suspicious of anyone who reserves their speech.

 

 

 

The problem with your assertion is you assume that everyone who doesn't actively participate in "typical" RuneScape activities is a macroer. The reason that more than half of those comments are "defending bots" is because when you say that anyone who doesn't pick up their arrows is autoing, you're making a blanket accusation that really does cover nearly half the RS population. That's something they're not comfortable with, and that's why you have the backlash.

[Elessar3019]

YOU PERSONALLY have no other proof then

 

 

 

"omg he/she wont interact with me personally"

 

 

 

sorry but neither will i, am i a bot? no.. and i dont use one either.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

It's a fundamental question of privacy vs. law enforcement. I think it's unfair to say that people who don't want to chat with others at every opportunity are defending bots. To use your examples, yes, very frequently I do not want to engage in the conversation that is occurring near me, and when I'm ranging, sometimes I don't care to pick up my arrows because in my mind it's not worth the trouble (lots of wasted time, really, it adds up in the end). In any case Jagex (law enforcement) can pick up on macro algorithms and whatnot a whole lot more accurately than the average player suspicious of anyone who reserves their speech.

 

 

 

The problem with your assertion is you assume that everyone who doesn't actively participate in "typical" RuneScape activities is a macroer. The reason that more than half of those comments are "defending bots" is because when you say that anyone who doesn't pick up their arrows is autoing, you're making a blanket accusation that really does cover nearly half the RS population. That's something they're not comfortable with, and that's why you have the backlash.

 

 

 

Actually, arrows were just one of the ways to tell whether they're autoers. Another would be to check the high scores, much the same way you would for a woodcutting bot. If that's their only skill in the high scores, they won't talk or trade, don't pick up their arrows, and have a name like "074533301", then I'm willing to take the chance that they're not an autoer.

[meol]

... .. and have a name like "074533301", then I'm willing to take the chance that they're not an autoer.

 

You mean that they do are autoers?

 

 

 

In my opinion, a real person playing behind would feel tempted to say something to the other player if he was really taking advantage of him, or at least change worlds or log off, but an autoer wouldn't. This way, it's really hard to strongly harm innocents in this way, isn't it?

[TheWilch]

 

then I'm willing to take the chance that they're not an autoer.

 

 

 

what exactly does that mean? your going to talk to them? your not going to report them? im confused by the point your trying to make.

 

 

 

 

 

as smokie said the reasons for your "theory's" are all normal traits of regular everyday REAL players behind a desktop. so of course the negative response's will out weigh the positives because your aiming at a perfectly innocent bystandard.

 

 

 

we need some kind of guilty until proven innocent system into rs. just go check out the guid to killing yew and ess auto'ers. im sure you will get more comfort from that then you will trying to argue with an insecure majority.

[Elessar3019]

 

then I'm willing to take the chance that they're not an autoer.

 

 

 

what exactly does that mean? your going to talk to them? your not going to report them? im confused by the point your trying to make.

 

 

 

It means that if they demonstrate all the characteristics of an autoer, I'm going to report them and take the chance that my account gets blackmarks for abuse of the report system.

 

 

 

as smokie said the reasons for your "theory's" are all normal traits of regular everyday REAL players behind a desktop. so of course the negative response's will out weigh the positives because your aiming at a perfectly innocent bystandard.

 

 

 

I think I know what you mean. Sure, there may be a small, and I mean minute, miniscule, infinitesimal, percentage of players who act exactly like bots for reasons unknown to us. But if it were me, and someone threatened to report me for bot-like behavior, I would play it safe and say something to them. I think this percentage of non-bot "deaf-mutes" is small enough to safely report all the unspeaking, range pure, weird-named characters performing stereotypical repetitive actions.

 

 

 

we need some kind of guilty until proven innocent system into rs.

 

 

 

I agree, but it seems many people are refusing to see the bad in another person's third-party program.

 

 

 

just go check out the guid to killing yew and ess auto'ers. im sure you will get more comfort from that then you will trying to argue with an insecure majority.

 

 

 

I have both read the guide and attempted to kill the bots. And I highly recommend, to anyone who is becoming bored of RS, doing this to pass time!

[TheWilch]

 

But if it were me, and someone threatened to report me for bot-like behavior, I would play it safe and say something to them.

 

 

 

 

but see, its not really that small of a majority thats doing this exact trait.

[Shazarabbit]

I defend bots, not because i use them. But despite what everyone thinks, these bots are apart of our economy. They allow people to level so easily. Guaranteed alot of the players who have started playing this game would quit because things would become harder to level.

 

 

 

Admittedly i would enjoy this, chopping your own wood, gathering your own flax, fletching your longs mining some essence crafting your own natures.

 

 

 

You cannot identify a bot simply based on whether they wont talk, trade or pick up arrows.

 

 

 

I myself don't talk to 70% of the runescape population because quite frankly they hold stupid conversations. If i have alot of arrows i generally wont pick up my arrows as i power range on greaters. Should i get reported? I'm not going to accept a trade with someone just to prove i'm not autoing.

 

 

 

Trust me if someone is autoing you can tell based on their movements. Autoers generally move in the same or similar pattern every time. Remember normal people have delayed reactions as well so just because someone doesn't jump to the fishing spot doesn't mean they are autoing you have to watch them for more than 15 minutes to actually find if they are an autoer.

[Elessar3019]

I defend bots, not because i use them. But despite what everyone thinks, these bots are apart of our economy. They allow people to level so easily. Guaranteed alot of the players who have started playing this game would quit because things would become harder to level.

 

 

 

Admittedly i would enjoy this, chopping your own wood, gathering your own flax, fletching your longs mining some essence crafting your own natures.

 

 

 

You cannot identify a bot simply based on whether they wont talk, trade or pick up arrows.

 

 

 

I myself don't talk to 70% of the runescape population because quite frankly they hold stupid conversations. If i have alot of arrows i generally wont pick up my arrows as i power range on greaters. Should i get reported? I'm not going to accept a trade with someone just to prove i'm not autoing.

 

 

 

Trust me if someone is autoing you can tell based on their movements. Autoers generally move in the same or similar pattern every time. Remember normal people have delayed reactions as well so just because someone doesn't jump to the fishing spot doesn't mean they are autoing you have to watch them for more than 15 minutes to actually find if they are an autoer.

 

 

 

Just so you guys know, the other major defining characteristic of bots in the Ogre Enclave is that they don't pick up anything except the hides. Some of them collect bones, but they never take any of the other stuff. This includes rune daggers and, though I don't have personal proof, dragon items.

 

 

 

And I'm not going to comment on your defending the bots, as it would sound more like a flame.

[Smokie]

 

It means that if they demonstrate all the characteristics of an autoer, I'm going to report them and take the chance that my account gets blackmarks for abuse of the report system.

 

 

 

This is logical. If everyone who railed on bots took this much precaution (in establishing the sort of "three-point checklist" that you have), then we'd have few bots and even fewer false accusations of botting.

 

 

 

All I'm saying is that you can't ascribe one standard (usually not responding to speech) to a user and then scream that they're a bot (which all too many die-hard bot-haters do).

 

 

 

You seem to take a reasonable approach, though, which I agree with. To emphasize again, you just have to be clear that you are doing enough to be sure that it's a bot for most people to rally around your cause.

[atestarossa]

as there was said earlier here, the guilty until the opposite is proven would be good, but it's actually how it is today as well...

 

 

 

if a character acts suspicious, like not talking, only picking up hides, not picking up arrows, have a weird name and so on... and theres nothing that would say that the player is not a bot, then i'm reporting it. Then, i'll leave it up to jagex to check it out, if it's really a bot.. by watching how the clicks is the same all the time... If a person really is playing, then there will always be small random changes in how you click, which somthing programmed won't.