Project Falcon - The new generation of Xbox 360's

[Kill_Thomas9]

New edit:

 

Conformation that the 360's with the new chips have been released!!

 

 

 

90nm chip:

 

 

 

 

New 65nm chip

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As almost all Xbox 360 owners know, the Xbox 360 has been plauged by overheating problems ever since it's release. But there may soon be a solution to help combat this problem, while helping them compete with Sony's price cut on the PlayStation3 at the same time. This new technology, code-named Project "Falcon", may greatly reduce the chance of the 360 overheating, and enable Microsoft to cut the price of the console.

 

 

 

What is project falcon? It is the name of the newest electronics in the 360. It includes an IBM microprocessor and an AMD/ATI graphics chip that are reduced to a size of 65nanometers from the size of the old 90nm chips. Now what advantage do these new chips have over the old chips? Surely it isn't to make the 360 more compact. After all, 25nanometers can't make much of a difference when the Xbox 360 is 320 mm wide x 83 mm high x 258 mm deep and weighs 3.5 kg[source]. No, the difference isn't that it just makes the 360 smaller. The difference is heat and manufacturing costs.

 

 

 

Of course, getting too hot isn't good for the Xbox 360, but overheating isn't the only problem. The main problem when the 360 cools down when turned off. For example, after an hour of playing Quake 4, the motherboard of the 360 reaches a temperature of 150.8ÃÆââ¬Å¡ÃâúF[source]!! When the motherboard reaches these temperatures, and you turn off the 360, the motherboard rapidly cools from 150ÃÆââ¬Å¡ÃâúF to room temperature, causing warping. After repeating this process too many times, the motherboard is too warped to work anymore.

 

 

 

Now, you may be asking what this has to do with Project Falcon. Well the larger the chip is, the more heat it produces. Therefore, it makes sense that a chip that is almost 30% smaller will make significantly less heat. But, the CPU is, and has been since earlier this year, already being made with the 65nm chip. So why is there hardly any noticable difference? Aside from the fact they they probably aren't on the shelves yet, according to one trusted source (go to the second post by MRCUR), the CPU (Central Processing Unit) isn't the problem. The problem was the GPU (Graphic Processing Unit). The CPU has a great heatsink that keeps it cool. The GPU though gets very hot, causing much of the overheating problems. Implementing the new 65nm chip into the GPU should keep the 360 much cooler. According to many articles [1] [2] [3], the 65nm GPU chip will go into production this fall.

 

 

 

Now about the price cuts. This is very simple. The new chips use 27% less material than the old ones. They also take less work, and less steps to produce than the 90nm chips. This all means that these new chips cost up to 50% less to produce[source] than the old ones. Seeing as Sony is cutting the price of their PlayStation 3's, it would make sense for Microsoft to cut the price of their Xbox 360. However this is just speculation based on the fact that production will cost less, the fact the Ps3 is having price cuts, and the fact that Christmas time is comming up.

 

 

 

One last advantage to these new chips is the noise level. The noise that the 360 produces is currently much louder than that of the Ps3. But, with the new chips making less heat, you can have less powerful fans, which ultimately means less noise comming from the 360.

 

 

 

So with these new chips, we may be looking at a quiter, cooler, less expensive Xbox 360 by mid to late october. Good news for those of us looking to buy one!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources:

 

 

 

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/rumor/xbox-360-gpu-goes-65nm-this-fall-256466.php

 

 

 

biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15975

 

 

 

http://www.talkvideogames.com/archive/index.php/thread-1298.html

 

 

 

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/01/xbox-360-65nm-chips-out-there-45nm-chips-in-the-future/

 

 

 

blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/07/microsofts_next_move_code-name_falcon.html

 

 

 

http://forums.xbox.com/63/13882627/ShowPost.aspx#13882627

 

 

 

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=OTM5LDQsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

 

 

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/01/65nm-360-chips-in-production-last-two-quarters-45nm-on-the-w/

 

 

 

http://www.techspot.com/news/26071-xbox-360-to-get-65nm-falcon-chips-this-fall.html

 

 

 

 

 

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As 65nm just started production in the last two quarters, you would expect 45nm to [begin production] about 18 months from that timeframe,

 

That means late 2008 to early 2009 for the 45nm chips.[source]

[Lionheart_0]

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Very well researched. I'm waiting around to get a 360. I know of all the good games for it, and cant wait.

 

 

 

I checked all your sources, and everything checks out, except maybe the cost one. Seems thats more speculation. It would be nice for a price cut, but they did one just about a month ago for 50$, so it might be a little weird to give it another price drop so soon.

 

 

 

Then again, its almost Christmas, and with mass effect and some other games coming out, MS might be able to tie with Nintendo by then.

[Kill_Thomas9]

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Very well researched. I'm waiting around to get a 360. I know of all the good games for it, and cant wait.

 

 

 

I checked all your sources, and everything checks out, except maybe the cost one. Seems thats more speculation. It would be nice for a price cut, but they did one just about a month ago for 50$, so it might be a little weird to give it another price drop so soon.

 

 

 

Then again, its almost Christmas, and with mass effect and some other games coming out, MS might be able to tie with Nintendo by then.

 

 

 

Yah, I dont have any sources on the price cut. I can only speculate seeing as it will be cheaper to produce, and that Sony is having price cuts, and it will be near christmas.

[blade995]

One last advantage to these new chips is the noise level. The noise that the 360 produces is currently much louder than that of the Ps3. But, with the new chips making less heat, you can have less powerful fans, which ultimately means less noise comming from the 360.

 

 

 

The ps3 and the 360 have completely different cooling systems. I believe the ps3 uses a copper heatpipe system to dissipate the heat through the whole system (which would require less fans) while the 360 uses the traditional heatsink on the chip with fans. Even with the shrink I don't think it would get quieter, it will probably use the same fans but run a lot cooler and have zero overheating.

 

 

 

I doubt Microsoft will cut the price too much, if at all after this. For one, the R&D (research and development) to design a smaller chip costs a lot of money. Although the gpu chip costs more than the cpu so that may impact the price. For the first few months I think it will be the same price then it will drop down $50 or so.

 

 

 

Hey the 360 may not get smaller but since the heat will not be an issue, Microsoft may try to design a 360 with an integrated power supply.

[Kill_Thomas9]

One last advantage to these new chips is the noise level. The noise that the 360 produces is currently much louder than that of the Ps3. But, with the new chips making less heat, you can have less powerful fans, which ultimately means less noise comming from the 360.

 

 

 

The ps3 and the 360 have completely different cooling systems. I believe the ps3 uses a copper heatpipe system to dissipate the heat through the whole system (which would require less fans) while the 360 uses the traditional heatsink on the chip with fans. Even with the shrink I don't think it would get quieter, it will probably use the same fans but run a lot cooler and have zero overheating.

 

 

 

I doubt Microsoft will cut the price too much, if at all after this. For one, the R&D (research and development) to design a smaller chip costs a lot of money. Although the gpu chip costs more than the cpu so that may impact the price. For the first few months I think it will be the same price then it will drop down $50 or so.

 

 

 

Hey the 360 may not get smaller but since the heat will not be an issue, Microsoft may try to design a 360 with an integrated power supply.

 

 

 

I can see Microsoft cutting the price around Christmas time. If the chip costs 50% less to produce than the old one, that is probably at least a $50 savings by Microsoft if they have 2 such chips (one in the CPU and one in the GPU). If so, I can see them cutting the price in mid-December.

 

 

 

And I'm pretty sure the the Ps3 does in fact have a different cooling system, but it does have a heatsink. I'm not 100% sure though, and I cant find the sources to confirm what I'm saying. However, I wasn't saying that the 360 will be quieter than the Ps3. I was just stating that if they can cool it off enough, the fans wont have to work as hard, and the entire system will be quieter than it is now.

 

 

 

If Microsoft does integrate the power supply, I seriously doubt it will be before they come out with the 45nm chip. It's unlikely though, because that would make the 360 reasonably taller and hotter. That would mean the 360 would be right where it is now, but taller, and without a black box.

[blade995]

And I'm pretty sure the the Ps3 does in fact have a different cooling system, but it does have a heatsink. I'm not 100% sure though, and I cant find the sources to confirm what I'm saying.

 

Oh the heatpipe thing I was talking about is a type of heatsink :wink: .

 

 

 

When/if they integrate the power supply it will be when they can shrink the 360 motherboard enough that it will not make the size any bigger. It would be stupid for them to come out with a bigger 360.

 

 

 

You have to remember if the dye shrink will cut costs by 50% for the manufacturer, Microsoft may not see all 50% savings. I think IBM makes the cpu. ATI I know for sure makes the graphics.

 

 

 

Microsoft needs to make money eventually too on these consoles. They don't have to drop the price everytime they cut manufacturing costs. If that were true, the PS2 would be a lot cheaper. I hope they drop the price, but if the PS3 stays the price it is now, they have no reason to.

[Kill_Thomas9]

And I'm pretty sure the the Ps3 does in fact have a different cooling system, but it does have a heatsink. I'm not 100% sure though, and I cant find the sources to confirm what I'm saying.

 

Oh the heatpipe thing I was talking about is a type of heatsink :wink: .

 

 

 

When/if they integrate the power supply it will be when they can shrink the 360 motherboard enough that it will not make the size any bigger. It would be stupid for them to come out with a bigger 360.

 

 

 

You have to remember if the dye shrink will cut costs by 50% for the manufacturer, Microsoft may not see all 50% savings. I think IBM makes the cpu. ATI I know for sure makes the graphics.

 

 

 

Microsoft needs to make money eventually too on these consoles. They don't have to drop the price everytime they cut manufacturing costs. If that were true, the PS2 would be a lot cheaper. I hope they drop the price, but if the PS3 stays the price it is now, they have no reason to.

 

 

 

Oh, I see what you're saying about the power supply. And I forgot that IBM makes the cpu, not Microsoft. But hopefuly they'll cut the price of the 360 for Christmas.

[Kill_Thomas9]

bump...

[Craiglowery]

Well I bought my 360 for $300 refurbished and if the new 360's go for the same price ill just return mine and buy a new one. Score!

[Kill_Thomas9]

yet another bump.

[Kill_Thomas9]

...bump...

[PhaperPlane]

Took them long enough! :lol: This is great news, this might just convince me to get a 360 :)

[henman888]

Can they also fix the"ring of death problem"?

[limpbizkit]

Imo a inter cooler works just fine.

[ReapMe]

manager at gamestop said the elite doesn't have this problem so i went ahead and bought the elite :

[Bloodredsword]

For the older 360's does the xbox really die that easily(regarding the part about the motherboard warping from heat)

 

 

 

 

 

Because that would suck

[blade995]

For the older 360's does the xbox really die that easily(regarding the part about the motherboard warping from heat)

 

 

 

 

 

Because that would suck

 

 

 

Not as much as people think. On the internet you see it a lot more because people always complain about broken consoles. You never see a person post something saying "My 360 works fine."

[yomom1919]

2 questions:

 

1. Is the falcon tech officially out

 

and

 

2. How can I ensure that I get a falcon tech one and not an old one thats been lying around on shelves for months?

[adam_ross0]

2 questions:

 

1. Is the falcon tech officially out

 

and

 

2. How can I ensure that I get a falcon tech one and not an old one thats been lying around on shelves for months?

 

 

 

Wow, you beat me to both of them :wall:

 

 

 

Anyways, yeah..when DO the falcon consoles come out?

[yomom1919]

Wow, you beat me to both of them :wall:

 

 

 

Anyways, yeah..when DO the falcon consoles come out?

 

 

 

It's supposedly out already; theres pics on multiple sites such as ign of the console compared to the old one with chip size and heatsink and stuff, but to my knowledge microsoft hasn't said anything about it have they? I'm waiting for an official statement.

[Skill_Caster]

That would be my dream miracle...I'm going to try to buy a 360 and Halo for myself at Christmas, however you see what I am restricted by is the price and the fear of it crashing...hooray! :D