Art

[Nom]

[hide=stuff]

There is a certain level of natural talent involved, without a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

 

As for art you need that creative ability, you need that awe-inspiring imagination, being able to draw confident lines.

 

 

 

You can't learn 'art', you are either born at having that artistic flare or you aren't, you were born for something else.

 

 

 

I believe this more than anything else. What more or less rules who you are is your DNA. Now, I'm not saying your genes will necessarily directly make you into a great artist, but it will predispose you to be one. For virtually all forms of art, you need to be creative, you need to be imaginative. Some people just aren't. They are much more methodical, more structured. Also, some personalities just don't cater to becoming an artist. For the most part, (really good) art requires you to sit/stand in one position for hours at a time, day after day for weeks or months or even years. I could never do that. I need to be active and moving. Which is why I became interested in sports at an early age and still am. I completely stink at basically an art form you name name, from music to drawing to pottery. But when it comes to sports, I'm very good at some of them and can hold my own in almost all of them. And I can pick new sports/physical activities up very quickly. Drawing is a very different case; I used to take drawing classes when I was younger and failed horribly at them.

 

 

 

With that said, of course practice and dedication is a huge part as well. A person practicing for 1 month will almost never be as good as someone practicing for 10 years. But the person practicing for 10 years I can pretty much guarantee had some sort of predisposition towards their craft, whatever it may be. Also, I believe that "natural talent" not only functions to start people off in something, it also limits what they can achieve. I'm talking about really, really great artists here, on the order of da Vinci and company. People like them are just born with an innate ability which they fostered with years of practice. Unless you have that within you, you can "work hard" your whole life and you'll never get up to that point. Life isn't always as fair as some people would like.

 

 

 

Basically, being successful in any walk of life, whether it be music, bodybuilding, sports, drawing, or even professions like doctor or lawyer, your genes definitely have a very large (but not complete) say in the matter.

[/hide]

 

 

 

This is almost what I'm trying to say, but with one crucial difference: you are talking about natural talent as though without it, one cannot achieve good artistic ability. This is simply not the case. As I've said before, natural talent is merely the genes you were born with that naturally dispose you to be more into art. This doesn't make you good at it, it merely makes you able to tolerate the trial and error that it takes to become good at an art, because you were born with patience and an enjoyment for it.

 

 

 

That does not limit the candidates for artists in any way. Anyone at all can become a good artist, but if they don't enjoy it and aren't interested, they will not put the time and effort into learning to paint/draw/write etc. But just because you weren't born into a family of artists, or don't feel you are creative or expressive enough, that is not a barrier to becoming a great artist if you really want to learn.

[venomai]

I'm talking about really, really great artists here, on the order of da Vinci and company. People like them are just born with an innate ability which they fostered with years of practice. Unless you have that within you, you can "work hard" your whole life and you'll never get up to that point. Life isn't always as fair as some people would like.

 

Van Gogh wasn't born with the ability to paint. In fact, it wasn't until his twenties that he decided to learn. Before he studied painting, he forced himself to learn to draw. In his learnings, he went through the same troubles as any other creative minded person would when they are first learning to draw.

 

 

 

Some people are born with a more dominant left sided brain, so they appear to be less creative and more logical thinkers. If they tried, they can shift their thought process to using the right side of the brain while drawing, which is all that's needed to become an artist.

 

 

 

Drawing is a skill, plain and simple. If you've got the determination and you practice it properly then you should have no trouble learning it.

 

http://www.drawright.com/gallery.htm

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In12ecDFL-w

 

 

 

I suspect every able-bodied person is born with the ability to draw. :)

[jiraiya19]

I'm very lucky to have almost everyone in my family be absolutely amazing at art (haha) but I believe that art is completely practice and how you view things. As others have said, a little praise goes a long way. My old art teacher at the local boys and girls club used to always absolutely love my work. (or pretend ;D) but either way, it helps a ton. Just practice, practice, practice.

 

 

 

If you want to learn the basics, learn bone structures and basic anatomy.

 

I would suggest buying an actual book, because in my opinion it's way better than looking at a computer screen D:

 

 

 

Good luck :]

[ThoseTheBrokes]

I've got so much to say, but my mind is completely blanked out..

 

 

 

You need that creative ability, the ability to just sit down and draw, draw what you see, or draw what you are thinking, the skill of making lines that are accurate, the skill to be able to make every line meet and make everything seem proportionate.

 

 

 

I'm talking every type of Art here, ranging right across from Sculptures to Digital Artists.

 

 

 

You can't teach a talent,

 

you are born with it.

 

 

 

& then on the other hand I agree with you Ven, you can learn how to draw a face in proportion, or a whole body in proportion.

 

I'm currently doing a Diploma in Graphic Design at the moment, and I'd never done Life Drawing before, It was something I learnt on the course, I picked it up right away, I drew what I saw, whereas other people in the class couldn't, we had that life drawing class for half a year, and the people who couldn't draw at the start progressed a little bit, but there are no where near as good as I, or the other skilled students in my class are who could just pick up the pencil and draw straight away.

 

 

 

(not blowing my own trumpet, just trying to put down an example)

[jiraiya19]

EDIT

 

never mind, I'm stupid

[Nom]

You can't teach a talent,

 

you are born with it.

 

 

 

You must teach a talent. You don't spring from the womb with the miraculous ability to draw amazing portraits. Rather, you spring from the womb with a natural predisposition towards drawing that makes it more enjoyable to learn.

 

 

 

Regarding the rest of your post, yes you need those abilites to be able to draw well. And those are abilities that you learn through practice. You don't innately acquire them. You don't sit down for the first time and start drawing good due to some natural talent. You sit down for the first time and start drawing crappy due to no experience whatsoever. The more artistically inclined - that is, those who enjoy the process of making art and wish to pursue it further - will learn from their mistakes, constructive criticism, and simple observation. They will go on to become great. Those who have no patience for learning the skills you mentioned and more will be turned away in favor of something they do enjoy doing and become great at that.

[venomai]

You need that creative ability, the ability to just sit down and draw, draw what you see, or draw what you are thinking, the skill of making lines that are accurate, the skill to be able to make every line meet and make everything seem proportionate.

 

Yet the examples I posted earlier show us that you don't need to be born with the ability to be able to draw well.

 

 

 

I'm currently doing a Diploma in Graphic Design at the moment, and I'd never done Life Drawing before, It was something I learnt on the course, I picked it up right away, I drew what I saw, whereas other people in the class couldn't, we had that life drawing class for half a year, and the people who couldn't draw at the start progressed a little bit, but there are no where near as good as I, or the other skilled students in my class are who could just pick up the pencil and draw straight away.

 

I've taken years of art classes in school where a lot of what we did was figure drawing. I've always enjoyed drawing, but I've never been able to draw figures. I could pick up the pencil and draw a decent looking apple, but trying to draw figures was a mess for me. I see others in my art class who can do it with ease, and then there are those who are worse off than me.

 

 

 

And then, pretty recently, I did the excercises in Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain and I drew things I never knew I was capable of.

 

 

 

What does this mean? If you ask me, it means that most school classes don't actually help you learn to draw. Some people are gifted with a talent that gives them the advantage of not needing much teaching to learn a certain skill.

 

 

 

Compare it to math or computer science. Some students are able to pick it up much faster simply because their minds process thoughts in a particular way -- yet this does not mean only those people are capable of becoming programmers or mathematicians. :)

[unorclan]

ahhhhh crap!!!!!!!! I took a test...i'm not right-brained.

 

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

Any other recommended books or online tuts?

[Nom]

ahhhhh crap!!!!!!!! I took a test...i'm right-brained.

 

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

Any other recommended books or online tuts?

 

 

 

The right side of the brain is the creative side, so. . . that's a good thing.

 

 

 

Right?

[ThoseTheBrokes]

That's what I meant, you have that skill, you just need to harness it and develop it.

 

 

 

I like threads like these, as opposed to 'i'm going to stay awake for as long as possible..'

 

 

 

So are you also saying that you can learn to do anything? Nuclear Physicist, Biochemist, Professional Footballer?

[Nom]

That's what I meant, you have that skill, you just need to harness it and develop it.

 

 

 

I like threads like these, as opposed to 'i'm going to stay awake for as long as possible..'

 

 

 

So are you also saying that you can learn to do anything? Nuclear Physicist, Biochemist, Professional Footballer?

 

 

 

Anything :) .

 

 

 

But going back to the skill thing for a minute, yes you need to harness and develop that skill, but you don't start with any advantages over others besides enthusiasm for it. You need to harness and develop your respective skill as much as anyone else would. The one thing that will help you, though, is the liking for it that you can be born with. All I'm saying by this is that you aren't born with 'natural talent' as it is defined by most people. Everyone has equal potential, but it is the individual who will exploit it because he finds it enjoyable.

 

 

 

And yes, with proper application of oneself and the motivation to learn and work hard, you can do anything that you want. The one thing stopping you is this: Do you find it fun? Worthwhile? Is it worth it, to you and your life, to be pursuing this certain skill?

 

 

 

Take a personal example from me. I've always been artistic, more into the arts than sports. I was never outstanding at sports, and after trying several I dropped them altogether save for recreational volleyball simply because I didn't find any of the others enjoyable. However, a month or so ago I was influenced by several circumstances (including a demonstration from Rebdragon :P ) to learn how to do the kip-up. Never having been at all athletic, it was going to be difficult, but after two weeks of practice I got it down.

 

 

 

So yes, if you set you mind to it, you can achieve whatever you like, as cheesy as that sounds.

[unorclan]

ahhhhh crap!!!!!!!! I took a test...i'm right-brained.

 

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

Any other recommended books or online tuts?

 

 

 

The right side of the brain is the creative side, so. . . that's a good thing.

 

 

 

Right?

 

 

 

oops, I meant to say i'm not right-brained. :XD:

[SanFranciscoGiants]

ahhhhh crap!!!!!!!! I took a test...i'm right-brained.

 

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

Any other recommended books or online tuts?

 

 

 

The right side of the brain is the creative side, so. . . that's a good thing.

 

 

 

Right?

 

 

 

oops, I meant to say i'm not right-brained. :XD:

 

 

 

If it was just an online test, it might not be the most accurate test you can take.

[venomai]

oops, I meant to say i'm not right-brained. :XD:

 

That's fine. Most of the books out there that deal with drawing and brain lateralization are written for people with dominant left brains, like yourself. :)

 

 

 

Either way, those tests (most of which are inaccurate) only measure which side you tend to use dominantly. With practice, any left brain dominant person can learn to use their right brain for specific functions, such as drawing.

[dymed]

I have to disagree dymed.

 

 

 

See, I think that if a child works on art at a young level he has a better chance of becoming a good artist when they get older. The reason is that children are so much more imaginative and creative than us. It's not really a guess, but they actually are a lot more creative.

 

 

 

If a child works on art at a young age I think that would help. It doesn't have as much to do if they were naturally born creative or not, because I think pretty much all children are creative -- just a lot don't know how to put it down on paper.

 

 

 

I agree with the fact that if a child works on art at a young age, he has a better chance of becoming a good artist when he is older; that's pretty much the case for anything really (sports, writing, etc.)

 

 

 

Children may be more creative than their adult counterparts, sure. But it doesn't mean that all children have the same level of creativity. Let me tell you, when I was a kid, i was nowhere near as creative as some of my friends. And this carried on throughout high school, college, and past.

 

 

 

Regarding the part of how all children are creative but a lot just don't know how to put it down on paper: that's pretty much what I'm saying. Some children are predisposed to knowing how, some children aren't and need a push. In art class, I was one of those kids that needed a push. In gym class, I was the first kid dressed and ready to play. That predisposition is exactly what I'm talking about, it's innate in some.

 

 

 

N0M, I'm saying basically what you are. You misunderstood me, I didn't say that without natural talent you can't be good. It's entirely possible, I don't doubt that. It's just much easier, and more probable, if you have the genes to predispose you for it, such as creativity or patience or perfect pitch, things like that.

 

 

 

I'm on the same page as ThoseTheBrokes. I don't quite believe that everyone can be great at anything though. For example, I have friends who are so squeemish of blood. They run away at the mere sight of someone with a bad cut. These people could never be surgeons. I, on the other hand, cannot wait for my surgery rotation in medical school. Watching cardiac surgery was one of the coolest things I have ever done. Next term in medical school, we will start in the cadaver lab, and I'm looking forward to it. Those same friends wonder how I can handle it, much less like it. I don't know, I just can. :P

 

 

 

I do agree with the whole "if you set your mind to it, you can achieve whatever you like", but with a slight limit. Some people are just built for certain things while others aren't. Personality (and on a more biological level, your genes) is a huge factor and I don't believe you can fundamentally change your personality.

[Nom]

Looks like we're all pretty much on the same page :D . The thing I picked out in the beginning was the term 'natural talent,' which is a bit of a misnomer considering we've established the predisposition thing.

[warri0r45]

Interesting discussion.

 

 

 

From what I know, separating the environment from your genes in terms of ending up as an artist is impossible, especially if artistic thinking has a greater phenotypic plasticity, and is multifactorial and polygenic, which IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢d speculate something as complex as artistic thought is. Your genes may be more keyed into a creative frame of mind or, say, a more physical state of body, yet you can indeed use the environment to change your phenotype as it kind of would automatically with multifactorial and phenotypically plastic traits. All it would take is altering your environment. As far as I'm aware it's still debated among geneticists as to how much environmental or genetic factors effect phenotype, with no one of these two being a clear winner. I suppose another aspect of the debate is the nature of the trait being discussed and whether itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s strictly Mendelian in nature or not.

 

 

 

It's interesting that Venomai brought up that book of becoming a better artist by keying into the right side of your brain, kind of analogous to how you can work out at the gym, increase muscle mass and become better equipped for sport.

 

 

 

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't underestimate the role the environment can play in becoming whatever it is you want to be. Merely finding something difficult does not suggest that you don't have the genes for it; more often then not, I'd say it's telling you that you're not going about it the right way (as in not putting yourself in the right environment), as is the case in trying to look at art logically and not creatively. But with some other traits, the genes you have may very well limit your ability to attain the phenotype of others. I mean, I doubt anyone would argue that eye colour has as large a phenotypic plasticity as artistic faculties.

 

 

 

To sum all that up, I suppose considering the nature vs. nurture debate for a given trait would force you to question things like a phenotype's plasticity, whether a trait is multifactorial or is merely guided by the statitsical ratios of Mendelian genetics and whether more than one gene accounts for it. My speculation is that that artistic and creative thinking is most definately phenotypically plastic, multifactorial and ruled by multiple genes. Otherwise, you wouldn't see such a bell curve kind of statistic in a population's creativity and artistic ability.

 

 

 

Anyway, hope that made sense.

[Zealot]

This is the thing about art: For a chef, food is the medium for art. For a carpenter wood is the medium. For the philosopher ideas are the medium, and words for the writer.

 

 

 

Art is an expression of who you are and (hopefully) the beauty that is there. It is in some sence a search for goodness, and can be preformed in a host of different mediums by a host of different people.

 

 

 

With that said my advice is choose the medium that you enjoy working with the most. Music, lines, color... flavor, scent, wonder... Whatever it is, as long as you have a passion for it and honestly give it all you have that will be enough. Just remember that what is easy is not always best, and never lose sight of the goal of finding some way of expressing some form of goodness.

[unorclan]

wow guys, bigger response than I imagined

[MasterMarduk]

I see 3 main factors involved in this.

 

 

 

1)Creativity

 

2)Abilities

 

3)Enviroment

 

 

 

Number one creativity, Creativity cant be tought only cultured and even then its not true creativity only what people desire. True creativity is something that comes to someone and isnt teachable. Some people as kids arent all that creative but pick it up later, same in the other direction. Being creative makes a good artist great, but isnt required to be a good artist.

 

 

 

Number two abilities, Abilities can be tought to you as a kid or as and adult. There are some natureal abilites which are given through your DNA, and others that are cultured through both trail and error and teaching. Genetically some people might have more of a skill or even and eye for things that others dont. A person could have OCD and create great works of art just because of a constant urge to make things perfect. People draw in class and sometimes that will work into an ability to draw and be creative. Being tought I believe is the least of the abilites, Just becuase you are tought something doesnt mean it will stick and stay.

 

 

 

Number Three Enviroment, Enviroment plays a role in this like every other things in our lives. What we draw is based on what we see and that can propel you to a special standing in and of itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ive drawn since I was young, Most always in class. People say I can draw awesome, but I never think anythings really good enough to show most people, I always see errors and I always keep fixing them. I love to draw when Im bored or have nothing else of interest to do. It becomes a way to explore yourself and imagine. Drawing or any other medium is an experession of ones thoughts, Ideas, dream and enviroment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ill think about it more and see If I cant add to what ive said.

[Deiophobus]

becoming a great artist takes longer than a year.

 

you can be an artist for 50 years, and still be able to improve.

[doomy]

Art is gay Because I suck at it.....:P

[unorclan]

You know, all my brothers do is make fun of what I draw and laugh at me when they see me drawing. My parents don't care because they think it's just a phase and will get over art over the summer and my sister has a new boyfriend so she forgot I exist anyways :-k

 

 

 

I've been drawing cartoon/anime type style but is that to hard for a beginner? Maybe something different? Help.

[Stragomagus]

Everyone has an aptitude for specific things in this world and it usually takes quite a long while, some never find where their aptitude is highest.

 

 

 

In your case I would continue doing what you are doing for another year or so and if you find yourself not improving after that period it is time to mnove on and to possibly keep it as a hobby or something like it.

[venomai]

Everyone has an aptitude for specific things in this world and it usually takes quite a long while, some never find where their aptitude is highest.

 

 

 

In your case I would continue doing what you are doing for another year or so and if you find yourself not improving after that period it is time to mnove on and to possibly keep it as a hobby or something like it.

 

I disagree. If you aren't improving at art, then there's a good chance you are doing it wrong, or that you lack the proper determination.

 

 

 

You can continue drawing all you want, but if you never learn to tap into the right side of the brain then there's a good chance you won't make very much artistic progress.

 

 

 

You don't need to buy that particular book. Anything that explains brain lateralization and how you can use the right side of the brain while drawing will suffice. There is plenty of material on the net.

 

 

 

PS: No offense, but anime is a pretty poor way to learn to draw. It often avoids many important concepts such as composition, lighting, texturing and other various details. If you want to really learn to draw, you should learn to draw from life. Only then should you move on to more basic cartoons.