The Political Compass, Where Do You Stand?

[Skull]

There's an awful lot of lefties here... is there any way of working out some kind of tipit average? that might be interesting...

 

 

 

I know it's not exact and the circles are all different sizes but...

 

 

 

 

That doesn't make me feel out of place at all :roll:

 

 

 

I'm the only one even remotely close to the top left

[magekillr]

Barack Obama radical left wing crap.

 

 

 

How I wish a left winger could survive in America :cry:

 

 

 

He's a moderate centrist...I'd say he's closer to the right than the left. Most definitely near the center though.

[jackattack]

^^ I wouldn't call the most liberal member of the senate a moderate centrist.

[magekillr]

^^ I wouldn't call the most liberal member of the senate a moderate centrist.

 

 

 

Yeah and Kerry was the most liberal in 2004. It's just right wing smear to make the person look like a radical.

[jackattack]

^^ Oh I'm sorry I am practicing the politics of division. How evil of me. Of course his voting record shouldn't matter. Except for the present votes.

[warri0r45]

That's what I hate about your politics. Division. You're so caught up on it. Mind you that's what I hate about all politics, but the labelling of ideology in America as a political divide is just incredible. It's like you're on either side of trenches fighting a war, not doing politics. You're all falling into the trap of thinking you have to think like one side of the spectrum or the other. People aren't being taught to think for themselves any more.

[jackattack]

Would you rather have everyone be the same? Obama was the most liberal senator last year according to his votes. To some people thats good I guess but to most its not. What is wrong with calling it like it is?

[warri0r45]

Would you rather have everyone be the same? Obama was the most liberal senator last year according to his votes. To some people thats good I guess but to most its not. What is wrong with calling it like it is?

 

 

 

Ironically that's exactly what I'm talking about. You all categorise each other as "liberal" or "conservative" when in reality people have a huge variety of opinions on all issues. What I'd rather is people stop calling each other by ideology or category as if you can divide people into two opposing groups, and as if pointing out divisions makes your side better (hence satisfying the most carnal notion of "us vs. them," which I find to be stupid and shallow).

[magekillr]

Would you rather have everyone be the same? Obama was the most liberal senator last year according to his votes. To some people thats good I guess but to most its not. What is wrong with calling it like it is?

 

 

 

Ironically that's exactly what I'm talking about. You all categorise each other as "liberal" or "conservative" when in reality people have a huge variety of opinions on all issues. What I'd rather is people stop calling each other by ideology or category as if you can divide people into two opposing groups, and as if pointing out divisions makes your side better (hence satisfying the most carnal notion of "us vs. them," which I find to be stupid and shallow).

 

 

 

I completely agree with your "us vs. them" issue with American politics. That's why I support Barack Obama lol, because he's a moderate centrist who is trying to bring both sides together. Frank Schaeffer said the other day in an article: "Barack Obama is pissing off the left and the right wing, so he must be doing something right." However, if you'd like me to list off every issue where I feel he's conservative and every issue where I think he's liberal, well, I personally feel that's a waste of time. It's just easier to say "he's in the center".

 

 

 

The thing about labels, I fit it. I'm just about liberal on every issue you can find. Come to think of it, I can't think of any issues where I'm not. I had no opinion about gays having children, because I was ignorant about any studies done. So, I read the ACLU's research, and the peer review, looked for counter arguments (couldn't find any except for religious ones), and moved from no opinion to "Let gays adopt". So, the label kinda works for me I guess?

[jackattack]

Gays should be able to adopt if it takes kids out of foster care or an orphanage. Other than that they shouldn't be allowed to. Anyone who says otherwise isn't thinking in the best interest of the child. And you would trust the aclu over a religous group? Do you remember the library fiasco?

 

 

 

Look the title of most liberal senator applies to Obama whether you like it or not. Just because he's trying to move to the middle now and steal George Bush's Fatih based thing. But since you mention how he brings people together that makes me think about all the times he's gone against his party or reached across the aisle. Instead of listening to Obama's rhetoric look at what he's done. Like Obama-Feingold, immigration reform, going against his party on global warming, or the gang of 14. Oh wait those weren't him were they? Why don't you look at someone who's walked the walk. Just look at McCains biggest supporter. Joe Liberman, as much as I may disagree with him, is a guy I can really respect. He put country above politics when he lost the democratic primary and even though the democrats turned on him he still gives them their majority.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I completely agree with your "us vs. them" issue with American politics. That's why I support Barack Obama lol, because he's a moderate centrist who is trying to bring both sides together. Frank Schaeffer said the other day in an article: "Barack Obama is pissing off the left and the right wing, so he must be doing something right."

 

So.... what caused the current split in the Democrat Party? Don't tell me it was all Hillary in that battle.

 

 

 

He's better than most, but he's still a politician, and this is the nature of party politics, especially it seems when you rally around individual people, rather than a group of people, to lead a country. It is 'us vs. them' with the electorate caught up in the middle deciding between the two.

[Jernlov]

 

 

 

I'll be damned. Thought I'd be further to the right.

[magekillr]

I completely agree with your "us vs. them" issue with American politics. That's why I support Barack Obama lol, because he's a moderate centrist who is trying to bring both sides together. Frank Schaeffer said the other day in an article: "Barack Obama is pissing off the left and the right wing, so he must be doing something right."

 

So.... what caused the current split in the Democrat Party? Don't tell me it was all Hillary in that battle.

 

 

 

He's better than most, but he's still a politician, and this is the nature of party politics, especially it seems when you rally around individual people, rather than a group of people, to lead a country. It is 'us vs. them' with the electorate caught up in the middle deciding between the two.

 

 

 

There is no split. Come to think of it, more Dems are rallied behind Obama than Republicans around McCain, and he's had months to do get his base together (article I read a while back...like 69% satisfied with Obama vs. 50 some odd percent with McCain). I mean, did you just expect him to not run lol? She was the expected winner until the primaries got underway in which he won the first one, and then he won 11 in a row. This is like saying Ralph Nader caused George Bush to win...

 

 

 

Yeah, he is a politician, something we must all remember (and some more movements to the center with issues such as filibustering FISA and decriminalizing marijuana are somewhat expected for the general).

 

 

 

Ultimately, the real change is in the communities from regular citizens, but it takes a leader to energize these people and make them believe it. It'd be nice to have some help from the fed to put some programs into place though. What I would give for a system like the NHS...

[jackattack]

Do you expect us to be happy with him? As person I am but not on his policies. He only won because Huckabee and Romney split hella votes. You better believe Obama is a politician just like everyone else. Everyone thinks he's some kind of messiah. No one likes to talk about his dirty tricks to get elected to state senate. Or how he's was so quick to go back on his word about public financing once it was better for him.

[Ginger_Warrior]

There is no split.

 

Are you for real?

 

 

 

I mean, did you just expect him to not run lol?

 

Of course I expected him to run, and good on him. He's a politician, I expected nothing less. However, by running, he did cause a split in the Democrats, thus removing your image of him being a mediator between opposing sides.

 

 

 

Ultimately, the real change is in the communities from regular citizens

 

The world's politics is moving rightwards. Obama is on the left-wing of America. I have no doubt he'll become President if he plays his cards right, but most of America remains hugely conservative towards the issues you're talking about (drugs, healthcare etc.)

 

 

 

What I would give for a system like the NHS...

 

Says the man who loathed Hillary and all she stood for just three months ago.

[magekillr]

There is no split.

 

Are you for real?

 

 

 

You live in England, all you see is what the media gives you...unless you're buying their spin that is. If you wanna be pedantic about it, there's always a split in the democratic party as it's the largest party in America working towards progression to the left.

 

 

 

I mean, did you just expect him to not run lol?

 

Of course I expected him to run, and good on him. He's a politician, I expected nothing less. However, by running, he did cause a split in the Democrats, thus removing your image of him being a mediator between opposing sides.

 

 

 

No, he really didn't. If he did, it's virtually repaired. The ones who weren't even prepared to vote for him were Dixiecrat/blue dog dems anyway, which were virtually apart of the party for the sole sake of Hillary Clinton. I talked to one woman last summer who wasn't thrilled with her in years past, but this election she took to her liking because of the surge in dem support from this area.

 

 

 

Furthermore, how can he not be a mediator from opposing sides if he has the majority support from the center, and is seen more and more moderate every day? His base extends from independents, to democrats, to republicans. It's a very solid base, and he's only pissing off the extreme left and right.

 

 

 

Ultimately, the real change is in the communities from regular citizens

 

The world's politics is moving rightwards. Obama is on the left-wing of America. I have no doubt he'll become President if he plays his cards right, but most of America remains hugely conservative towards the issues you're talking about (drugs, healthcare etc.)

 

 

 

Surprisingly enough, before the economy started to tank, healthcare reform was the most important issue. Sadly, even more important than the war. Only for a short while though...

 

 

 

What I would give for a system like the NHS...

 

Says the man who loathed Hillary and all she stood for just three months ago.

 

 

 

She didn't get it in the 1990's, why would I expect her to get it now? She accepted money to get off the health care reform boat and to shut up afterwards.

 

 

 

What I meant by that is, you need to build a movement from the ground up. Take the Green Party for example. You cannot win the presidency if you don't have a large organization. I look at the Green party with sympathy, but I say to myself, "how many Green governors are there? how many senators? state senators? mayors? ... council at large?"

 

 

 

We need a huge movement. This is why Barack has succeeded in some part - he has a huge base now. The greens should focus on governing locally, then statewide, then nationally. This way they can show that they can govern well, and they have the organization to back it up. They get more press time, they get more converts, they work their way up without getting to the point Barack is now and going "oh gosh I guess I have to include some washington insiders now." They get here and go "I'll take that guy and that girl for my campaign, they're strong Greens and they've been here a while, but still hold our values."

 

 

 

That's why the radical right has more power than they should, they get busy as hell infecting school boards and governorships and whatnot.

 

 

 

That's the problem with progressives, though we're trying to fix it. We have all these blue dog democrats blocking our way. That's why the FISA bill sucks, too many weak dems and not enough progressives.

[jackattack]

You might want to call up the green party and tell them that. Ill give it 20 until we get a green party president. :lol:

 

 

 

That's the problem with progressives, though we're trying to fix it. We have all these blue dog democrats blocking our way. That's why the FISA bill sucks, too many weak dems and not enough progressives

 

 

 

Wow. I don't even like Steny Hoyer and I can at least respect him for putting that bill together. And for not letting Jack 'the troops are cold blooded killers now gimmie a bribe' Murtha get majority leader.