Well today while slaying at fire giants I got into a discussion with one of my clan mates about Runecrafting. Now, he told me that he was training by making Nature runes through the abyss. I asked why he wasn't making laws for more money and xp. He said that it was better money and xp to be able to use a familiar which was in his case an Abyssal Lurker. I thought that if he was using that route he should go with a Terrorbird for infinite run, and he disagreed. Then I brought up the Spirit Ghraak, and again he disagreed. So, of:

 

 

 

1. Abyss crafting Laws (no familiar)

 

2. Abyss crafting Natures (Abyssal Lurker)

 

3. Abyss crafting Natures (Spirit Terrorbird)

 

4. Abyss crafting Deaths (Abyssal Lurker)

 

5. Abyss crafting Deaths (Spirit Terrorbird)

 

6. Grhaak crafting Natures

 

 

 

Discuss which of these are the easiest, most xp, and most profitable, as well as which you prefer.

5. Crafting Deaths with Spirit Terrorbird. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

I choose 5.

 

Out of those there, id craft nats untill i could do deaths then change imidiatly, nats are way to low at the moment.

Graahk all the way... and I'm 92 rc (100k from 93).

5. Crafting Deaths with Spirit Terrorbird. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

I choose 5.

 

Out of those there, id craft nats untill i could do deaths then change imidiatly, nats are way to low at the moment.

 

 

 

I was gunna put a P.S. of don't say bloods or other stuff, but deaths are a viable option, so I'll add.

Well today while slaying at fire giants I got into a discussion with one of my clan mates about Runecrafting. Now, he told me that he was training by making Nature runes through the abyss. I asked why he wasn't making laws for more money and xp. He said that it was better money and xp to be able to use a familiar which was in his case an Abyssal Lurker. I thought that if he was using that route he should go with a Terrorbird for infinite run, and he disagreed. Then I brought up the Spirit Ghraak, and again he disagreed. So, of:

 

 

 

1. Abyss crafting Laws (no familiar)

 

2. Abyss crafting Natures (Abyssal Lurker)

 

3. Abyss crafting Natures (Spirit Terrorbird)

 

4. Abyss crafting Deaths (Abyssal Lurker)

 

5. Abyss crafting Deaths (Spirit Terrorbird)

 

6. Grhaak crafting Natures

 

 

 

Discuss which of these are the easiest, most xp, and most profitable, as well as which you prefer.

 

 

 

This is a very, very simple discussion. Anwser: Graahk if 91+ rc, Abyss Deaths (lurker) if not (although ZMI is better then). There should be NO QUESTION about why not. Here's the math:

 

 

 

First off, let's TOTALLY ELIMINATE no familiar. It's simply not worth it. Laws are .5 more xp than nats, but you can craft 7 (!) extra ess. That's worth it, is it not?

 

 

 

Second, it's between the Terrorbird and Lurker. Obvious anwser is the Lurker. Why? Because that's about 200-300 extra ess per hour at the abyss. (7 extra ess, 45 runs per hour. That's 315, but stuff happens.) Whoa. Now what's the benefit of the Terrorbird? Energy boost. What else can you use for an energy boost? Super energies. Therefore, there is a suitable replacement for the Terrorbird thats even better. The ess you craft pays for the difference in money spent on super energies, not to mention the additional xp.

 

 

 

Lastly, we can eliminate abyss deaths v. nats before 91 rc. Why? Nats are both less profit and less xp than deaths. Why on earth would you craft them? Only if you're under 65 rc, or haven't done MEP2. Either case is understandable.

 

 

 

So it comes down to Ghraak nats and Abyss Deaths. Which shall it be? Ghraak runs are 1 minute each, abyss runs range from 1:15-1:45 (dependent on stats) and have many more variables (revs, etc.). 60 ghraak runs v 45 abyss runs.

 

 

 

Deaths are 10xp ea, nats are 9. So then, 61 deaths per abyss run (after 75) v 53 per ghraak. That comes out to 27.5k/hr xp on deaths, and 28.6k/hr on ghraak nats. Seems like ghraak is better, for xp. What about cash? Deaths are 300 ea, nats are 245 ea. P ess is about 147 each. That works out to 419k per hour at deaths to 311k at natures. However that figure does not account for the cost of ghraak pouches, lurker pouches, or super energies. Just remember ghraak pouches cost A LOT more than lurkers and cast roughly the same time.

 

 

 

What about double nats? Well it's about 1m per hour. That's a lot more than deaths in xp and money.

 

 

 

So in conclusion, ZMI is best rc xp. :lol: But if you really wanna be a rebel, deaths before 91 rc, and after ghraak nats. Of course, if you had 91 rc, totally ditch ZMI and ghraak nat craft your heart away.

 

 

 

EDIT: Just a note, abyss nats IS NOT better than Ghraak Nats. Abyss nats = 2.7k ess/hr, Ghraak = 3.2k/hour. In fact, the abyss is NEVER the best way to level rc. The most efficent method is ZMI to 91, and ghraak nats after.

Your forgetting Blood runes, which gives 1.5 exp more than Nats, 1 exp more then Laws, and 0.5 exp more then Deaths. In the long run it matters even if it is just a couple thousand more of the predesignate rune. Experience wise, Bloods are best for Abyss, and they don't sell that bad either (275gp min price last time I checked).

 

 

 

I use an Abyssal Lurker and for the 40 minutes it is out, I can make an average of 1500 Blood runes give or take a hundred, assuming each trip takes an average of under 2 minutes, and using Salt Water springs for infinite run most of the time. That is an average of 25 trips of making runes, and not considering the variables of repairing pouches or run restoration (Which most of the time isn't necessary since Salt Water springs last for around 20 minutes, while the other 20 you shouldn't run out of energy if you are wearing weight reducing equipment). Each Abyssal Familiar is 7 more essence, so that is an average of 172 essence extra per familiar.

 

 

 

Taking this into consideration, as well as the price of an Abyssal familiar pouch (Parasite and Lurker consideration only, Titan is out of most Runecrafter's leagues, and isn't worth it). They cost about 2,600gp per in Grand Exchange, which is around the same cost in shards if you were to make your own. The obvious thing to consider is that these pouches do not sell well, as most players don't bother making them, or make them for themselves and use them (As I do myself).

 

 

 

Abyssal charms are not hard to get. If you have a Dwarf cannon, and about 1000 Cannonballs, you can easily set it up in a corner in the abyss, fire, and pick up charms. I can get an average of 50 charms per 1000 Cannonballs, so averaging at 20 Cannonballs per charm, or about 4000 gp per charm. We could go even more technical as to where the Green charm gets obtained, but I'm just about finished.

 

 

 

Making the pouch yourself sums up to about 6,000gp. The 172 Blood runes crafted using the familiar will net 47,300gp at minimum price in the GE. The 172 runes also amasses 1806 more experience, which is about 11% more experience every familiar used.

 

 

 

/Scientific post

 

 

 

Ourania Altar is still best for exp, or the new mini game might top it.

Double astrals are 26k+ exp per hour, 400k+ profit per hour (plus free mage exp teleing back to bank), and no annoying abyss except when pouch degrades. Plus i haven't done MEP quests, and abyss annoys me. :lol: Yes they need a high level for them, but i'll be doing them to 91, maybe with some ZMI to spice things up. :)

I tried rcing with an abyssal familiar and i honestly believe its more effort than it's worth. It is slightly faster than using a terrorbird via abyss, but you need to do so many extra clicks per run. It's an extra click to bank again, extra click to open familiars invent, extra click to store ess, and a further 2 more clicks to open the summon tab and withdraw BoB. Thats not even counting the extra clicks to drink energy pots, and to withdraw them when you've drunk the 4 doses.

 

 

 

Terrorbirds are simple, just an occaisional 2 clicks to open summon tab and click scroll. no extra banking/storing/withdrawing you get with the abyssals. Graahks def seem the way to go when you hit 91, but i'd rather craft deaths til then.

Using a lurker and crafting Deaths I could do roughly 2k an hour, with a terrorbird I do around 1850. I've started using the terrorbird now just because there's less clicking as Kemikalkadet has mentioned.

 

 

 

Once I hit 82 I'll be making double astrals with a terrorbird all the way to 91, then moving onto Graahk's and double nats.

 

 

 

At the moment exp is what matters but I want to make a good bit of profit too, which is why I ain't using the ZMI altar, once I get to 82 I'll be doing it completely for cash to help build up all the money and items i've lost.

I tried rcing with an abyssal familiar and i honestly believe its more effort than it's worth. It is slightly faster than using a terrorbird via abyss, but you need to do so many extra clicks per run. It's an extra click to bank again, extra click to open familiars invent, extra click to store ess, and a further 2 more clicks to open the summon tab and withdraw BoB. Thats not even counting the extra clicks to drink energy pots, and to withdraw them when you've drunk the 4 doses.

 

 

 

Terrorbirds are simple, just an occaisional 2 clicks to open summon tab and click scroll. no extra banking/storing/withdrawing you get with the abyssals. Graahks def seem the way to go when you hit 91, but i'd rather craft deaths til then.

 

 

 

First off, if you have a giant pouch, you won't be banking an extra time anyway. The extra clicks are only 3-5 seconds extra per trip. And using a Lurker at ZMI saves 16-17 HOURS of RuneCrafting. It's basically turning down an extra Meduim Pouch if you bring a Terrorbird.

 

 

 

In addition, it is much better to drink the super energy as you are running to the altar, which saves time. Everyone who uses a Terrorbird at ZMI uses the special as they run, and everyone who drinks the pots drinks them as they run. I've never seen anyone drink at the bank and once a handful of times has someone used the scroll at the banker. You save a lot of time by simply drinking it as you run. Now considering that, all you have to do is click 4 times. This is as you are running too, so you don't waste any time. If you were using a Terrorbird, it would still be most efficent to use the scroll as you are running, so you aren't losing any essence holding capability.

 

 

 

Maybe the one bad thing the Lurker/Parasite/Titan has is the difficulty in getting the pouches.

graahk, sometimes i mix it up a little and lurker the abyss so i dont get too bored, if you're on about training the skill im sure by jagex saying the new minigame will be "A great alternative" will get mid level crafters 65+ that can enter guild (just a guess) will get them crafting.

 

 

 

but its dependant on your level and what you prefer, some dont even use familiars to post above i know someone who drinks in the bank, its a trick that has no delay to drinking and filling pouches

graahk, sometimes i mix it up a little and lurker the abyss so i dont get too bored, if you're on about training the skill im sure by jagex saying the new minigame will be "A great alternative" will get mid level crafters 65+ that can enter guild (just a guess) will get them crafting.

 

 

 

but its dependant on your level and what you prefer, some dont even use familiars to post above i know someone who drinks in the bank, its a trick that has no delay to drinking and filling pouches

 

 

 

Really? I've never heard of it. Please tell?

I personally use a Lurker and do Deaths via the Abyss. I'm trying to get 75 Runecrafting for now, and once I do that I plan on using my Giant Pouch for double Cosmics. I know that the way I do my runs isn't the fastest (and it includes a lot of walking, while everyone else is using Super Energies and Terrorbirds to continuously run.) But the way I do my runs works for me, and Runecrafting doesn't become a stressful time, trying to keep running, and bank everything as fast as possible. The only time I have to worry about how quick I am is when my familiars timer is down to it's last couple of minutes, and I want to get as much out of it as I can.