The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[jackattack]

A poll isn't really proof that Al Qaida isn't weakened. I think that while they may be resurgent in Afghanistan overall their ability to launch attacks inside the U.S. is greatly diminished. Something like 90% of the senior pre-9/11 leadership has been killed or captured and CIA and the FBI have rolled up more than 5,000 terrorists worldwide.

[magekillr]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanm ... story.html

 

 

 

Of concern to McCain's campaign, however, is a remaining and still-undisclosed clip from Palin's interview with Couric last week that has the political world buzzing.

 

 

 

The Palin aide, after first noting how "infuriating" it was for CBS to purportedly leak word about the gaffe, revealed that it came in response to a question about Supreme Court decisions.

 

 

 

After noting Roe vs. Wade, Palin was apparently unable to discuss any major court cases.

 

 

 

There was no verbal fumbling with this particular question as there was with some others, the aide said, but rather silence.

 

 

 

*Pssst* Sarah, how about Marbury vs. Madison which gave the SCOTUS its power in the first place.

[jackattack]

I'd be a little more concerned about Biden's gaffe saying that he and Obama don't support clean coal.

 

 

 

edit: or opposing tha AIG bailout

[crimsonking]

Just as the Bushisms are about to end a new idiot steps up to claim the legacy, yes indeed I speak of Sarah Palin, after watching her recent interview on the Early Show I have found myself supporting McCain, almost out of sympathy, for chosing such an idiot as his VP candidate. :wall:

 

 

 

McCain for 08, because without Bush in office we'll need someone new to laugh at.

[Deiophobus]

I hope you're kidding crimson.

 

 

 

The other day someone told me that they hoped Biden didn't tear apart Palin too much in the debate, because if he does, people might give her a sympathy vote. I thought he was underestimating the intelligence and rationality of the American people. Maybe not...

[crimsonking]

I hope you're kidding crimson.

 

 

 

The other day someone told me that they hoped Biden didn't tear apart Palin too much in the debate, because if he does, people might give her a sympathy vote. I thought he was underestimating the intelligence and rationality of the American people. Maybe not...

 

 

 

Yes I'm kidding, I'm voting for Obama.

[jackattack]

I hope you're kidding crimson.

 

 

 

The other day someone told me that they hoped Biden didn't tear apart Palin too much in the debate, because if he does, people might give her a sympathy vote. I thought he was underestimating the intelligence and rationality of the American people. Maybe not...

 

 

 

 

 

The debate is ridiculous. The moderator Gwen Ifill is writing a book about Obama. Can you imagine the uproar that would happen if anything happened like this towards McCain? I don't know how much people make from a book but if someone had gone to Leher and said "you don't have to do anything but if McCain wins the election then I will give you a million dollars" it would have been a huge deal. Anyone who has that kind of money at stake should recuse themselves.

[Lordjake]

I don't think I've heard Palin take a breath yet so far in the debate.

 

Every time she speaks, its some giant run-on sentence :-#

 

 

 

I am somewhat scared that since the bar is set so low for her, that even if she only has 2 or 3 mistakes, it'll be claimed as a massive success.

[warren211]

The audience promised not to show any emotion during the debate, and when Biden said McCain's energy plan was "the ultimate bridge to nowhere" they burst out laughing. ;)

[jackattack]

I think Palin did all right. There were a few missed opportunities where she really could have gone after him or Obama. The one thing though...She said NUCULAR like 10 times. I winced every time she said it.

[ThurinEthir]

I think Palin did all right. There were a few missed opportunities where she really could have gone after him or Obama. The one thing though...She said NUCULAR like 10 times. I winced every time she said it.

 

You're not alone. I don't even remember what she said then, I was too distracted.

 

Anyway, Palin kind of redeemed herself (A bit...), but Biden did well. Especially driving in the point that McCain is basically the same as Bush.

 

McKiernan, McClellan...Eh.

[Kenshinjapan]

The stations that I flipped to at the end all said that Palin "won" the debate.

 

 

 

Did anyone's say Biden did?

[jackattack]

^^ Well obviously Msnbc. You don't even have to watch it to know.

[magekillr]

McCain's camp complained all this time about the moderators, first about Brokaw, and now about Gwen because of her book.

 

 

 

Man, [bleep] Gwen. What a god awful moderator she was. Both of them evaded questions, and not only were they evaded, but new questions were answered.

 

 

 

Sarah Palin never once answered a question reasonably, and brought up Obama's taxes/socialism with "redistribution of wealth". She couldn't answer a question to save her life.

 

 

 

Biden was better, but he had some times where he evaded the question at hand too.

 

 

 

What a HORRIBLE horrible moderator. She asked one question remotely close to a question I would have asked, and it was abrely enforced. She even once joked about the debaters not answering her question and said "Let's move on." What the hell?

 

 

 

Overall, her questions were great, but she was awful at pressing for answers.

 

 

 

My questions:

 

 

 

[bleep] Cheney has said to have changed the face of the VP forever. What do you think the obligations and duties of the VP are, what do you think they should be, and how do you relate that to how the Constitution literally describes said duties?

 

 

 

The US seems to have been on its own with its recent foreign policies, even in the faces of our allies. Our respect amongst our foreign neighbors has declined steadily, and many have not seen us as someone to "look up to" as they once had following WWII.

 

 

 

However, some say that this is a non-issue, and that we shouldn't care what the world thinks of our actions, so long as we perceive them to be "right".

 

 

 

Do you agree that we should not care what the world thinks of our actions, and if so, how do we go about restoring our standing in the world?

 

 

 

 

You graduated college with a BA in journalism, and were a local small news anchor for a few years. How do you perceive the world through the lens of a journalist, and how do you perceive the world through the eyes of a VP candidate?

(I would have worded it differently as to ask both of them).

 

 

 

Evolution is said to be "just a theory". However, there are many scientific theories that the majority of Americans perceive as 100% fact, including germs, cells, and gravity. Why do you think that evolution is singled out, and if you deny it, what would stop you from denying new scientific evidence/breakthroughs in energy and medicine?

 

 

 

The people of Zimbabwe are experiencing magnitudes of inflation as high as a million percent. Robert Mugabe is said to be one of the most ruthless Presidents in power today, and has been accused of, with a burden of proof, rigging elections. What do you see as the root problem in this situation, does the US act on these injustices, and how do we go about doing so?

 

 

 

The first amendment says that we shall make no law respecting an established religion, yet in many state constitutions it is illegal to run for office while being an atheist, and homosexual marriages are banned. Can you explain how these laws are Constitutional, and outside of religious argument why homosexual marriages should be banned?

 

 

 

The US is lagging behind in pre-k-12 education with respect to the rest of the world. Many believe the problem to be at the heart of the curriculum with test-based teaching rather than critical thinking, others believe it to be the fault of the teachers, students, and parents. What do you think the issue is, and how do we go about resolving it?

[jackattack]

McCain's camp complained all this time about the moderators, first about Brokaw, and now about Gwen because of her book.

 

 

 

Anyone with the kind of monetary stake in the outcome of the election should have recused themselves from a position like that. I think she was pretty fair though. And those aren't very good questions. If you are a debate moderator you are not supposed to ask loaded questions.

[Kenshinjapan]

McCain's camp complained all this time about the moderators, first about Brokaw, and now about Gwen because of her book.

 

 

 

Anyone with the kind of monetary stake in the outcome of the election should have recused themselves from a position like that. I think she was pretty fair though. And those aren't very good questions. If you are a debate moderator you are not supposed to ask loaded questions.

 

 

 

That's what I was thinking. You were just asking loaded questions that wouldn't mean anything. The moderator did just fine.

[magekillr]

How are they loaded questions? Biden and Sarah agreed about the homosexual marriage,. What is wrong with my question about Zimbabwe (an important issue to me), and what is wrong with my education question?

 

 

 

The only one I see as "loaded" is the evolution one, but simply put, I could easily re-tool it.

 

 

 

The moderator was horrible.

 

 

 

I was pissed that she gave Palin a pass on what distinguished both VP candidates on same-sex benefits. The impression that a lot of undecideds (read: idiots who should know their [cabbage] by now) are going to receive is that there is little distinction when the distinction between them on this issue is actually enormous.

 

 

 

Oh, and by the by, most polls out right now have Biden winning by a landslide, and rightly so. Palin was reciting speeches drilled into her head, albeit more articulate than in an interview, but that's expected with this format.

[Lordjake]

Here's a short summary of different TV station polls of the debate:

 

 

 

CBS:

 

[hide=]

Forty-six percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed say Democrat Joe Biden won the debate, compared to 21 percent for Republican Sarah Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.

 

 

 

Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.

 

 

 

Both candidates improved their overall image tonight. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed say they now have a better impression of Biden. Five percent say they have a worse opinion of the Delaware senator, while 42 percent say they debate did not change their opinion.

 

 

 

Fifty-five percent say they now have a better opinion of Palin. Fourteen percent say they have a worse opinion, while 30 percent say their opinion hasn't changed.

[/hide]

 

 

 

MSNBC:

 

[hide=]

Who won the VP debate? * 332666 responses

 

Joe Biden - 53%

 

Sarah Palin - 37%

 

Tie - 4.4%

 

Not sure - 5.6%

[/hide]

 

 

 

Fox News:

 

[hide=]

 

Question of the Day

 

Who won the vice presidential debate Thursday?

 

 

 

Sarah Palin 42%

 

 

 

Joe Biden 58%

 

 

 

Total Voters:70641

[/hide]

 

 

 

Granted, its always likely to change from new people voting on their websites, but it seems like majority of the visitors of those 3 sites feel like Biden 'won' the debate.

[jackattack]

Ahh yes. We were all eagerly awaiting the Msnbc poll. Obviously the best one. The real measure will be the daily kos/moveon.org joint poll.

 

 

 

How are they loaded questions? Biden and Sarah agreed about the homosexual marriage,. What is wrong with my question about Zimbabwe (an important issue to me), and what is wrong with my education question?

 

 

 

The only one I see as "loaded" is the evolution one, but simply put, I could easily re-tool it.

 

 

 

 

1. okay

 

2. Doesn't really make sense. Just an attempt to smear Bush. We worked with other nations on Afghanistan and whatever people say there was a coalition going into Iraq, we worked with other countries regarding North Korea, and we worked with the EU about the situation in Georgia.

 

3. okay

 

4. Completely loaded question. Not really a major issue. Would just an attempt to trick Palin into saying that if a local community wanted to give intelligent design equal time in a classroom she wouldn't stop them.

 

5. okay

 

6. Not really an issue. Just an attempt to portray Palin as a Bible thumping fundamentalist. I doubt there has ever been a case of someone not being allowed to run for office because they were an atheist. And gay marriage would only have to do with the establishment clause if it was the government saying a gay church couldn't marry people. Not to mention that Biden opposes gay marriage.

 

7. Either say that nclb is the reason we are lacking in education or call teachers, parents and students all stupid.

[Saru Inc]

1) Apparently Palin won. =D

 

 

 

2) Call me ignorant, but what do you mean by "loaded" questions?

 

 

 

I've not been keeping track of the debates, except this one, working too much, which is why I've not posted.

[Lordjake]

Ahh yes. We were all eagerly awaiting the Msnbc poll. Obviously the best one.

 

Even if you take away the MSNBC poll, you still have 2 other major networks giving the same poll results.

 

Even Fox News, which is to Conservatives as MSNBC is to liberals, has Biden winning.

 

 

 

edit:

 

Biden is also winning the online poll at Townhall.com, which advertises itself as a website for Republican Politics and Conservative Issues.

 

[hide=]Who won Thursday night's VP debate?

 

Joe Biden (57 %)

 

 

 

Sarah Palin (41 %)

 

 

 

Tie (2 %)[/hide]

[chris1216]

Not to mention that Biden opposes gay marriage.

 

 

 

 

 

I just felt that it was important to clarify this, since you took it out of context.

 

 

 

Biden believes that marriage is a term that falls under religious definition, so it's each religion's business as to whether gays can "marry". He DOES believe in equal rights for civil unions between same-sex couples and giving them the exact same rights that "married" couples get.

 

 

 

Take out the semantics, and he wants to give equal rights to same sex couples (legal and financial), Palin does not.

[Deiophobus]

1) Apparently Palin won. =D

 

 

 

2) Call me ignorant, but what do you mean by "loaded" questions?

 

 

 

I've not been keeping track of the debates, except this one, working too much, which is why I've not posted.

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like Democrats of course thought Biden won, Republicans of course Palin, and people in the middle thought Biden won.

[Ginger_Warrior]

...Does it matter?

 

 

 

The battleground isn't the stage Palin and Biden were on last night. That contains no electoral college votes.

 

 

 

The battlegrounds are the key states, including Michiga... oh wait: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7650350.stm

[Deiophobus]

My uncle from Oregon is actually coming here to Michigan to campaign for Obama. Looks like he won't really be needed :P

 

 

 

I don't know about the rest of the state, but I know the city I live in is at least 90% democrat.