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Posted 02 October 2008 - 08:47 PM
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WHO DOES THIS GUIDE APPLIED TO: This guide applies for medium lvl smithers (50 or higher, and able to superheat), but the concept is the same, so good for lower lvl or higher lvl smithers as well.
During my RS careers, I always heard how people complain how hard smithing is to train, so I will just enter my 2 bit here to speed up smithing, mage, and mining. (Thanks to grand exchange, this method makes training smithing ALOT faster)
First of all, I am not sure if anyone made similar post before, if they did, sorry about duplicate topic posting, and for the most part, this is another long post, better have a cup of chocolate before you start reading, lol.
To me smithing is like a quest, in order to effectively train those skills, you need certain skill lvls first, recommended are
MAGE, superheat lvl
SMITHING, if you can make steel bar, thats great, if you can make mith and above, thats even better
CASH: More the better, at least 1.2mil to 2.4mil gp depend on what bars you make, or mine the respective ores to start things off
MINING, basically, the higher the better, but I go for at least mith lvl or addy lvl. (Optional)
FOR LOWER LVL SMITHER:
"Just a quick note here, if you just smelt steel bars at al karid, or fally furnace, its actually good cash too, you make 9 steel bars per trip, and thats about 150gp or more gp per bar and 1.3k more per walk. This applies if you buy the ores, u get more profit if you mine your own ores. Just remember to sell the steel bars not smith them. When 1k steel bars are done, profit after deduction of iron and coal is 150k per every 2 hour (its 500 steel bar per hour), You can always get more profit by buying ores cheaper."
Go do those F2p quest that boost your xp in mining and smithing if you haven't done so, I only remember Knight sword quest for smithing (a must), Doric's quest for lvl up mining.
BUYING THE ORES:
First part regarding to the whole operation is buying the ores, if you dont care about losing cash (maybe 20 to 50gp per bar), then by all means, buy ores slight higher at their appraised value and get quick transaction that way. I personally prefer stock price method, I watch for the rise and drop or certain ores, at times, I buy thing slightly lower then med value, and just wait a day or 2 until to see it done. Make sure you check the price of bar too, if everything is plummeting, its best to buy ores and make it into bars, but dont sell. Only sell the bars when its on the rise (basically, sell the bar when its over the cost of the ores that you orginally buy for)
Example, coal 173 ea, addy, 1030 each, nature runes 240ea ==> 2308
Cost of addy bar, 2280 medium
Now, most of people will go, but it lose money like 28 gp per bar, normally, I dont mind losing cash, hey you get mage and smith xp for mere 28gp, thats really good deal if you ask me, but with some price adjustments, you make cash
New price, buy coal for 170ea, addy ore 1k ea, nature rune 235ea ==>2255
Sell addy bar for 2300ea or more.
There are always people who are willing to sell things for lower price, and willing to buy thing for higher price, depend on how needy they are, usually things sell cheap during night, and buy high during day (thats when people are active). So watching the price of grand exchange is essential for profit making.
MAKING THE BAR: Once you can at least make mith bar, and superheat, you simply buy coal, mith ores, and nature rune from grand exchange, all you have to make sure is that the cost of raw materials equal to or less than the cost of bar. So you superheat your ores and sell the bar, it takes about 1 hour to superheat 1k of bars.
To make superheat more effectively, I actually put ores in a specific order, first put the coal and the desired higher lvl ores in your bank menu closer to your inventory menu, so less distance travel for mouse when you withdraw the ores. Then in your inventory, put 1k nature runes, 9 addy ores, or 10 mith ores, and rest is coal. When you superheat, for example, you will able to superheat 3 addy bar at once, since its 6 coal per addy ore, then dont deposit anything, just withdraw coal again, then superheat until all the ores is done into bars.
When you have 9 addy bars, you simply withdraw "coal" first, then deposit the addy bars, then withdraw the addy ores. The order of withdraw and deposit make it easier so you let the repesective ores fill itself up by simply withdraw all.
RESULTANT XP: With that in mind, you can potentially get 37.5k xp smith and 54k xp mage per hour (for addy, mith is 30k xp per hour) same principle can also apply to runite ores if you have 85 smith, I dont do that much since the cost of runite is alot, (imagine how much 1k runite would cost?)
NEED TO KNOW:
Another tip is dont buy too much at once, only buy what you can superheat (1k to 3K) that day, 3k addy ores, or 4k mith ores, or 18k coal or which ever. ( I suggest just get 1k mith ores, and 4k coal plus 1k nat to trial test this method and see if you like it). The reason is, you can never predict the price of the raw materials, if you buy too many ores at once, and you can't smith all in time, you might end up selling bar for lower price because of "low" season in bar (too many bars in grand exchange, thus drop in price)
If you plan to buy cheap and sell high, then you have to be patient, I normally just buy stuff slightly below the value of ores, and sell bars slight higher so this ensure me the constant supply of cash and ores whenever I go to grand exchange.
Lastly, what do do during waiting for your ores to buy and bar to sell? Training, thats where mining becomes good, I just take mith ores, addy ores, runite ores to mining guild and start superheat and mine until those ores are bought or bars are sold.
PS: Due to the nature of constant clicking, its might be troublesome to chat at the same time, you can always turn your chat off when training, so it doesn't impede your speed, plus you wont be rude to people on your list by ignoring half of their msgs.
Credit: I didn't originally thought of this method, one of my good RS friend just told me while we are discussing smithing, so thanks for all your info Dragon. Also thanks to the large quest and smithing date base provide by Tip It guides
Posted 03 October 2008 - 01:21 AM
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Mith ores used to be expensive (300 to 400ea) but after the release of strongholds, the monster drop alot of noted miths, and their price have been plummenting and stablize around 155 ea to 175ea.
To be honest, alot of people would choose addy over mith ores, but dont forget mith ores is probably easier to obtain at lower price compare to addy ores, so you can potentially get it in larger amount compare to addy ores. (Cheaper too) 30xp smith per bar is really good too, and since the cost of materials are mostly covered by the bar, training skill with the more avaliable ores ensure steady supply of xp and cash almost everyday (2k mith bars per day is like 60k xp in smith and 106k xp in mage per day).
An example of my addy bar superheating training in 1 one day.
Bought 5k addy ores for 1k ea, and 30k coal for 170ea, 5k nat 240ea
Took me whole day, around 6 hours to superheat all.
Cost of each bar 2261gp
I manage to sold all for 2320gp
Total Profit earned in 6 hours 295k gp
Total xp earn in smith 187.5k xp
Total xp earn in mage 265k xp
If you train this way, and get your smith all the way to lvl 99, you mage will be lvl 99 and probably over 17mil in xp as well.
Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:42 PM
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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:12 PM
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Put your nats and some random item (whatever you want) in your inventory. Withdraw one of the mith ore and put it in your 12th slot in your inventory. Then you withdraw 5 mith ore and 20 coal and superheat, clicking the mith ore in the 12th spot. A lot less mouse movement and you're a lot less likely to screw up. Withdraw all coal (gives you 20 again), deposit mith bars and withdraw w/e mith ores (gives you 5 mith ore again). That mith ore in the 12th spot should still be there as long as you withdraw the coal first.
Doing this is quite click-intensive, though. The fastest mage and smithing exp doing this is of course superheating gold ores with the goldsmith gaunts. But you lose a lot of gp to it and you can't really do much with the bars after you make them except craft them, and you'd probably need to use gems when crafting them to sell them. If you do manage to sell them, its like 570 gp per bar lost. This is really only a good idea for people with a lot of money in p2p.
Anyways, there are a lot of pluses for each ore. Funny enough, the higher level bar you are making, the less amount of money you lose, and you get faster smithing exp... but you also get slower mage exp. Mithril actually seems like its slower than adamant in mage exp actually because you gotta do a lot more clicking everytime you bank. Its quite annoying and I'm sure adamant would have been a lot easier for me, but I can't do it (58 smith >.>)
Its a good method, and its decent smithing experience I must say. But you need to elaborate on how to do each bar and use some pictures.
PvP drops: 359 Brawling Gloves, 11 Vesta's Longswords, 41+ Zaros/Ancient Statues
9 Dragon Full Helms, 3 Dragonfire Shields on the old PvP loot system
Brawler guide is being finished!
First to no pray jad.
Posted 22 October 2008 - 11:03 AM
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Regarding to steel bar, you can train mage xp easy if you just superheat your steel bars, but you will lose cash, since the cost of everything add up to be more of the price of steel bars. The only way you wont lose cash is that if you mine part or all the ores. Say if you go to mining guild, and then mine 25 iron ores, and then move to mining guild coal section, and then mine coal and superheat, then you wont lose cash. But its just psychology, because you are simply mining your own ores and then part of profit got minus because you add nat into your equation.
Steel bar = 600ea, coal 168 ea, iron 93 ea, nat 243ea
Superheat Steel bar = 600 - 243 (nat) = 357k profit but 53k mage xp per 1k steel bars
Smelt steel bar (when you mine all your own coal and iron) = 600k
Smelt the bought ores into steel bars = 171k after minus the initial cash you put for buying ores
Someone mention that as your superheat high lvl bar, you will lose less cash, thats true because the prime ores (mith, addy, runite, and iron) takes the base of the equation, the greater value of prime ores, it will offset the cost of coal, and nat. Which make addy and runite ideal (but hard to say now since pvp world completely changes the ores trend at this moment)
Current update, due to the recent update of pvp worlds, alot of prices are affected greatly, this includes ores as well, let me elaborate on few things.
Addy ores and bars have shot up dramatically, they are priced at 1141 and 2362 repectively (and subject to change)
Mith ores also gone up abit albeit not that much 173ea atm
Coal dropped few gp since pvp world introduction 168ea
Now is where you need to get creative, and adapt to the situations, I use this equation to help.
bar (product) = coal + ores + nat (component)
when one of the component drops, I usually buy it in greater quality and in cheaper price, for example, when coal start to drop (at 172 to 171ea) I buy coal at 164 ea (up to 20k or 50k per amount), during the phase of dropping, people tend to get scare if it will go down and start to sell out more, as long as you dont set it at min price, people still sell it and dont think its a total loss to them
when one of the component is going up, like addy ores for example, I was able to get them for 1k ea just 2 weeks ago, now I can't really get them even at 1150 ea, at this point, look at price of the bar, use the one thats already bought, coal and nat, to set your standard
6 coal (984) + nat (243) + addy ore 1150 = 2377ea
Now since the medium price is at 2362, people think, thats losing cash, but you have to sell your bar alot higher than that, first off, hit a round number, means you can start selling at 2.4k,
This also means that you can potentially buy your addy ores at even higher price, say 1170 since you "know" you will sell it for 2.4k anyways, you will still make profit by 3gp ea.
people will buy them for higher price for bar if lower price dont sell, and they expect it happen since cost of addy ore gone up (I sold mine for 2.42k, but I only make about 30gp profit since I bought my nat for 260ea 5 months ago), you sell it high enough that you earn a profit, but still low enough to entice the buyers to buy (in fact one of my friend sell 2 different price, he has 2 slots, one sell for 2.42k, one sell for max price, this works well since he would sell at least lower price one, but if max price sell too, he just got lucky)
Have patience, keen eye, and keep track of price trend is all you need
And again, since the cost of addy ores is going up, I dont really do much in the mean time except to wait because they are slowly pushing up to the margin where people are selling them near max price that makes this superheating method improperble.
So while I wait, I do 2 things, I bought mith ores at 165ea for 2k of them, then I start train superheating mining with them. Even if the mith bars dont go up, I can still sell it and earn profit, ableit less, or I can simply smith them into mith plate and high alc later. Either way I get profit since I mine the coal myself.
2nd thing, since coal is dropping, there is a good chance to buy them for 161 to 162 ea, since min price is 159ea, and med price is still 168 ea, if the coal start to drop again, I sold all the coal I bought for 162ea and get profit that way by the difference (so called merchanting), or when the coal start to go up, I either hold the coal to make into bar later, or sell it when the price peaked. (which later on my friend described as let your money work for you ) The only risk is that if you buy it for large amount, you might risk losing cash when coal price crashes to less than 159ea (but I am sure you will sell it before then), which means, check price EVERYDAY
Again, another long response, when it comes to this type of things, there are ways to counter it, but so far, following those rules, I didnt even lose a single gp (mathmatically speaking) to get my smith to 93, in fact, I probably earn total profit of few mil from it at least.
PS: you can start mining now at few mining site that has coal, mith, and addy ores, superheat there, and bank for more, for some reason, they are all very empty now, and I assume thats part of the good thing from pvp world introduction (everyone too busy pking)
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