.

[warri0r45]

Huh, "limited democracy"? So only the ones that fight the bugs get citizenship? Someone's been watching too many(awesome) movies.

 

 

 

I realy don't know what you're talking about, or what you mean by "bugs".

 

Its a reference to the film Starship Troopers

 

 

 

As for the smell, those complaining are really going to have to get over yourselves, its one thing to complain about the health problems, even secondary smoking for which the evidence has been completely overblown (I'm not implying it isnt true that second hand smoke does increase your likelyhood of cancer, but the studies were specifically only about people in confined spaces with smokers).

 

 

 

However implying that the smell is anything other than the tiniest of irritations is great egotism.

 

 

 

I couldn't disagree more. The smell of stagnant smoke lingering in a room is not a tiny irritation for me - it's easily one of the most horrible smells I've ever encountered. I don't know why this has anything to do with ego, either.

 

 

 

For my entire life I've lived with smokers, such that I'm the only non-smoker in my family. To tell you the truth the smoking never used to bother me because my family usually did it outside where the breeze could carry the smell away. But ever since I experienced a stagnant load of smoke in my house one morning with the air conditioner going and all the windows and doors closed, I've had a seriously adverse reaction to stagnant smoke.

 

 

 

These days my dad and my brother both know that they can only smoke outside, yet there have been slip-ups which they (my dad, usually) thought they could hide from me. Suffice it to say that I could smell their slip-ups from a mile away, and it's never been a minor irritation, that's for sure.

 

 

 

Having said that, I don't mind in the slightest that they smoke, and I never tell them that they shouldn't. They now have a great big deck out the back where they can smoke and I say they can do so to their heart's content. The breeze usually sorts out the smoke when it's outside anyway.

[Lenin64]

My ego wears a beret.He's a war vet,he fought for RoomService Hill in Hotel Company during the Vietnam war,see.

 

 

 

He also wears boots 3 sizes bigger than mine.They were made for walking.

 

 

 

Our egos should meet some day.

 

I haven't seen my ego in weeks. He doesn't fit through the door anymore.

 

 

 

Cigarrete smoke smells far worse than any smpke I've smelled before. It really sucks since all the school bathrooms smell as if someone lit up 12 packs and let them sit for a month before reburning. I can't even walk in there anymore.

[Shinjula]

I couldn't disagree more. The smell of stagnant smoke lingering in a room is not a tiny irritation for me - it's easily one of the most horrible smells I've ever encountered. I don't know why this has anything to do with ego, either.

 

Because its still just a smell. The idea that you would force your will onto others make them change the way they want to live their life simply because of a personal preference is egotistical.

 

 

 

To put it another way, suppose I said that I thought people really shouldnt wear orange TShirt simply because I dont like the colour orange?

 

You'd think i was mad.

 

It would be fine for me to make the statement "I dont like the colour orange", but its arrogance for me to go around expecting other people to change their behaviour simply because of it.

[skillerman84]

Here in Fort Wayne, Indiana you can't smoke in Public Facilities (resraunts,bars,bathrooms,etc.) and I think you also can't smoke in your car either-not sure because I still see some people who do, but I rarely see anybody now.

 

 

 

Good Move. =D>

[warri0r45]

I couldn't disagree more. The smell of stagnant smoke lingering in a room is not a tiny irritation for me - it's easily one of the most horrible smells I've ever encountered. I don't know why this has anything to do with ego, either.

 

Because its still just a smell. The idea that you would force your will onto others make them change the way they want to live their life simply because of a personal preference is egotistical.

 

 

 

To put it another way, suppose I said that I thought people really shouldnt wear orange TShirt simply because I dont like the colour orange?

 

You'd think i was mad.

 

It would be fine for me to make the statement "I dont like the colour orange", but its arrogance for me to go around expecting other people to change their behaviour simply because of it.

 

Who said anything about forcing my will onto others? I said I'd rather not be exposed to stagnant cigarette smoke because I can't stand the smell. Besides, the argument cuts both ways: who are to force your will on me by essentially filling my lungs with your smoke? Am I to call you egotistical now because you think it's fine to make me smell your stagnant smoke?

 

 

 

I don't think it's too much to ask not to breathe in stagnant cigarette smoke, Shin. A bit of a fleeting smell of smoke while walking down the street I can deal with, but I'm not talking about that here. I'm not talking about something as innocuous as the colour of a t-shirt either, so please don't reduce the argument to something so rediculous.

 

 

 

I've already said that I don't mind if people smoke, all I'm saying is that I don't like the smell of stagnant smoke nor do I like being exposed to it. As a matter of fact, most reasonable smokers I know (my family included) are quite happy to comply by avoiding smoking around non-smokers/in the house or car of non-smokers. Any reasonable human being would do the same as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

Let me ask you this: would you smoke in the room of a non-smoking friend's house and upon hearing his demands for you to stop just call him egotistical? Of course you wouldn't, so why are you arguing the point with me?

[hellbellz]

Here in Fort Wayne, Indiana you can't smoke in Public Facilities (resraunts,bars,bathrooms,etc.) and I think you also can't smoke in your car either-not sure because I still see some people who do, but I rarely see anybody now.

 

 

 

Good Move. =D>

 

Their own damn car? :roll: I don't smoke, but I think I can call shenanigans on that.

[iamthechamp]

My take on it is that it should be made illegal in all public places, but should be legal in houses/other private property.

 

 

 

I agree with what he said. I could care less if people wanted to smoke as long as innocent bystanders didn't have to get so much second hand smoke.

[ProtoGuy]

Champ has a good point.

[Roberthree]

it should be illegal in public at least because of the health risks. I know a kid with horrible asthma who could easily die if left around smokers.

 

 

 

on a totally separate note I don't see why weed is illegal but cigarettes and alcohol aren't >_>

[ProtoGuy]

That's probably due to the fact the government couldn't control it before.

[deloriagod]

My take on it is that it should be made illegal in all public places, but should be legal in houses/other private property.

 

 

 

I agree with what he said. I could care less if people wanted to smoke as long as innocent bystanders didn't have to get so much second hand smoke.

 

 

 

Ok, the second hand smoke argument really bothers me. I've explained before how well filter secondhand smoke is and how very little you inhale. Now, please explain to me how bad this second smoke is for you while you and someone smoking are outside in a well ventilated area and the smoke is not being blown directly into your lungs.

[Shinjula]

Who said anything about forcing my will onto others? I said I'd rather not be exposed to stagnant cigarette smoke because I can't stand the smell. Besides, the argument cuts both ways: who are to force your will on me by essentially filling my lungs with your smoke? Am I to call you egotistical now because you think it's fine to make me smell your stagnant smoke?

 

Well firstly I'm talkin about forcing your will onto others because the thread is about whether or not smoking should be made illegal and so I assume (reasonably I think) that if people are putting forwards arguments against smoking that they are doing so in support of the proposition that smoking should be illegal. If you aren't doing so, then I'm not convinced that you aren't using the thread to get a bit of complaining about smokers done to relieve tension, something I can understand but it could do with being labelled as such so it isn't confused with the topic.

 

 

 

I don't think it's too much to ask not to breathe in stagnant cigarette smoke, Shin. A bit of a fleeting smell of smoke while walking down the street I can deal with, but I'm not talking about that here. I'm not talking about something as innocuous as the colour of a t-shirt either, so please don't reduce the argument to something so rediculous.

 

OK Sure, explain to me where the difference actually lies? Remember we are purely talking about the smell here rather than any health concern, each of them is a sensory input which is disliked, I really can't see the difference, sure the orange t shirt thing is ridiculous, but the implication I'm making is that because the nature of the two is identical then from someone elses perspective the dislike of the smell of smoke would appear just as ridiculous.

 

 

 

I've already said that I don't mind if people smoke, all I'm saying is that I don't like the smell of stagnant smoke nor do I like being exposed to it.

 

There is no problem with you disliking it at all, its when your dislike impinges on my actions I have a problem with it.

 

 

 

As a matter of fact, most reasonable smokers I know (my family included) are quite happy to comply by avoiding smoking around non-smokers/in the house or car of non-smokers. Any reasonable human being would do the same as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would certainly do so because of the health reasons. But if someone asked me to eat a kebab outside because the garlic sauce smelled bad I would certainly look at them funny. I'd probably say something along the lines of "Oh c'mon, its flipping freezing outside, its only a kebab, can we just open the windows please?). I'd reluctantly agree to go outside after all its their house but id still think they were a jerk for making a fuss (I live in Newcastle and its flipping cold outside). It's exactly the same thing

 

 

 

Let me ask you this: would you smoke in the room of a non-smoking friend's house and upon hearing his demands for you to stop just call him egotistical? Of course you wouldn't, so why are you arguing the point with me?

 

Because the only reason I would do so are health reasons. Health trumps likes/dislikes.

[warri0r45]

Who said anything about forcing my will onto others? I said I'd rather not be exposed to stagnant cigarette smoke because I can't stand the smell. Besides, the argument cuts both ways: who are to force your will on me by essentially filling my lungs with your smoke? Am I to call you egotistical now because you think it's fine to make me smell your stagnant smoke?

 

Well firstly I'm talkin about forcing your will onto others because the thread is about whether or not smoking should be made illegal and so I assume (reasonably I think) that if people are putting forwards arguments against smoking that they are doing so in support of the proposition that smoking should be illegal. If you aren't doing so, then I'm not convinced that you aren't using the thread to get a bit of complaining about smokers done to relieve tension, something I can understand but it could do with being labelled as such so it isn't confused with the topic.

 

 

 

No, thats not what Im talking about, which Ive tried to make painfully clear so as to avoid this kind of confusion. Once more for clarity: I do not think smoking should be made illegal, I just had a comment on stagnant second hand smoke. Also, Im not complaining about smokers, only inconsiderate people and the smell of second hand smoke. Id have to say by and large smokers arent that inconsiderate, so thats a positive.

 

 

 

You seem not to have addressed the counterargument, either.

 

 

 

I don't think it's too much to ask not to breathe in stagnant cigarette smoke, Shin. A bit of a fleeting smell of smoke while walking down the street I can deal with, but I'm not talking about that here. I'm not talking about something as innocuous as the colour of a t-shirt either, so please don't reduce the argument to something so rediculous.

 

OK Sure, explain to me where the difference actually lies? Remember we are purely talking about the smell here rather than any health concern, each of them is a sensory input which is disliked, I really can't see the difference, sure the orange t shirt thing is ridiculous, but the implication I'm making is that because the nature of the two is identical then from someone elses perspective the dislike of the smell of smoke would appear just as ridiculous.

 

 

 

The difference is firstly one of scale; I can quite possibly see many people like me that just cant stand the smell of stagnant cigarette smoke. I cant possibly see such a number of people with such an adverse reaction to the colour of a t-shirt. Secondly, the former would be rational, because its irritating my very olfactory system, yet the latter is irrational, because theres no reason to have such an adverse opinion of a colour. That is, unless there is some biological reason; say because the colour orange generates an irritating sensation like having a torch shone into your eyes or something. As for the health reasons associated with second hand smoke, thanks for bringing them up because they only further my point.

 

 

 

Again, Shin, I dont think its that much to ask not to breathe in your stagnant smoke, should that scenario ever arise. I take it you dont really care about the rights of a non-smoker not to breathe in your stagnant smoke, do you? Ive not really heard your opinion on that, yet. You seem to be dead against anyone taking away your right to fill a room with your smoke, but what do you say about the rights of the other people in that room?

 

 

 

I've already said that I don't mind if people smoke, all I'm saying is that I don't like the smell of stagnant smoke nor do I like being exposed to it.

 

There is no problem with you disliking it at all, its when your dislike impinges on my actions I have a problem with it.

 

 

 

So I see that you understand the counterpoint as well? Such that you should have a problem with smokers impinging on my wishes not to breathe in their stagnant smoke? A little give and take is what makes society work, my friend. Ive already given my stamp of approval to people such as yourself smoking to your hearts content. I would expect you to be somewhat reasonable and try not to make me smoke as well, if at all possible. After all, you cant get annoyed at non-smokers for asking you to smoke elsewhere should you light up in their house because youre restricting their freedom too. The same goes for lighting up next to a non-smoker in a bar.

 

 

 

Just on that point, there are laws that separate smokers and non-smokers and now I see why it minimizes what people dont want. For non-smokers its breathing in smoke (particularly in non-ventilated areas), and for smokers its not being able to smoke. Very fair I say! :)

 

 

 

As a matter of fact, most reasonable smokers I know (my family included) are quite happy to comply by avoiding smoking around non-smokers/in the house or car of non-smokers. Any reasonable human being would do the same as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would certainly do so because of the health reasons. But if someone asked me to eat a kebab outside because the garlic sauce smelled bad I would certainly look at them funny. I'd probably say something along the lines of "Oh c'mon, its flipping freezing outside, its only a kebab, can we just open the windows please?). I'd reluctantly agree to go outside after all its their house but id still think they were a jerk for making a fuss (I live in Newcastle and its flipping cold outside). It's exactly the same thing

 

 

 

Its exactly the same thing as the smell of garlic? Right. Again, I think youd be hard pressed to find people with such an adverse reaction to the smell of garlic, nor does the smell of garlic tend to fill a room like cigarette smoke can.

 

 

 

For the sake of discussion, suppose there are two rational thinking friends, one loves garlic kebabs and the other has a serious dislike for the smell. Of course the two will part ways for the duration of the meal, because theyre reasonable people. I suppose the easiest solution is for the eater to go outside because the smell is more easily dispersed there. Though of course, if the second friend doesnt mind the smell of garlic, the first could happily eat the kebab in front of him. Sure, the same could be true of a smoking and non-smoking friend, but I seriously doubt that would be so likely.

 

 

 

I tend to think exactly the opposite of what you seem to Id say you would be the jerk if you smoked in someones house against their wishes. I dont care how cold it is outside. If you cant hold off until you get back to your own house/car, then too bad. You cant seriously expect people to sit back complacently while putting your rights on a golden pedestal by enduring your cigarette smoke. Thats ridiculous.

 

 

 

Let me ask you this: would you smoke in the room of a non-smoking friend's house and upon hearing his demands for you to stop just call him egotistical? Of course you wouldn't, so why are you arguing the point with me?

 

Because the only reason I would do so are health reasons. Health trumps likes/dislikes.

 

 

 

You didnt quite answer the question directly, did you? Is it because by your own reasoning it makes you out to be a total jerk?

[Shinjula]

Look I'm sorry your getting me as a total jerk I'm not. Im sorry I havent responded to your own questions I'm going to do so now, I was only holding off answering them I wasnt ignoring them. I didnt really answer them because I agree with them completely, sorry I didnt say until now, it seemed obvious although in hindsight obviously I should.

 

 

 

Sure, its a two way street, I thought you were arguing that because it was an irritant to you you should automatically win the negotiation (which you do actually seem to be saying), its just as valid for you to not want to breathe my smoke as it is for me to want to smoke. Of course it is. So to me logically you should get you way half the time and i should get my way half the time. I wasnt arguing that I should always get to smoke, I was arguing you shouldnt get to boot me out of the house *all* the time.

 

 

 

I'll respond in more detail to your other comments in a mo, just wanted to get this posted first to clear up this bit.

[Kenshinjapan]

So to me logically you should get you way half the time and i should get my way half the time. I wasnt arguing that I should always get to smoke, I was arguing you shouldnt get to boot me out of the house *all* the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why not? When I invite someone over to my house, I expect them not to stink up my house and irritate my lungs. When I go out to eat my dinner in a restaurant, I expect to be able to enjoy my dinner just as anyone else should without having to inhale irritating smoke. Even if it is your house and you are a smoker, you should put out your cigarette. Many people are bothered by it and can't stand the smell/health risks. Smoking isn't a primary function, if a restaurant is full of people and 1 person is smoking, you can't expect all of those people to walk outside to get fresh air. It's common courtesy, which sadly many people don't care about these days.

[Shinjula]

With the orange TShirt thing, OK sure it was stretching the point to try and illustrate something, I'd hoped you would look at what I was trying to point out, not insist that because so few people would have that reaction is an illogical argument. However I also think that your own reaction, at least from how you describe it is also atypical. You seem throughout your post to be talking about a reaction way above mere dislike and more towards a phobic reaction. And sure if I met you in person and knew you had such an adverse reaction theres no way I'd smoke in front of you, but you also seem to be talking as though everybody who dislikes the smell dislikes it to the same degree as you.

 

I was also assuming that any negitive physical effects such as irritation of your throat was included more in the arguments for health reasons than the dislike reasons. This I think is a lot of what I believe I have miscommunicated to you. I have been purely talking about the dislike aspects of it, in the same way some people dont like the smell of curry or farts. I wasnt including the whole experience of having someone in your house who is smoking, I wasnt including the dirt or irritating effect, I was only arguing that asking someone to leave because of a dislike of a smell would be no different than asking someone to leave because you didnt like the smell of their deodorant. Anything further is a subtly differnt question and I have a different answer to it (most of which are "Yeah sure no problem mate, ill just pop out")

 

 

 

I dont know quite where youve got the idea that I put my"rights on a golden pedestal", I've said nothing of the sort, I've just gone back to try and find out where youve got that idea and I can't see quite see where youve got it from. I'm guessing its this comment

There is no problem with you disliking it at all, its when your dislike impinges on my actions I have a problem with it.

but I did immediately follow it with

But if someone asked me to eat a kebab outside because the garlic sauce smelled bad I would certainly look at them funny. I'd probably say something along the lines of "Oh c'mon, its flipping freezing outside, its only a kebab, can we just open the windows please?). I'd reluctantly agree to go outside after all its their house but id still think they were a jerk for making a fuss (I live in Newcastle and its flipping cold outside). It's exactly the same thing

Which still says specifically I wouldl go along with their wishes, hardly the act of someone putting thier rights on a golden pedestal.

Its exactly the same thing as the smell of garlic? Right. Again, I think youd be hard pressed to find people with such an adverse reaction to the smell of garlic, nor does the smell of garlic tend to fill a room like cigarette smoke can.

I think many people dislike the smell, and only a few would dislike it as much as you dislike the smell of smoke, but then I doubt whether i could find many people who dislike the smell of smoke as much as you seem to be making out that you do.

Let me ask you this: would you smoke in the room of a non-smoking friend's house and upon hearing his demands for you to stop just call him egotistical? Of course you wouldn't' date=' so why are you arguing the point with me?[/quote']Because the only reason I would do so are health reasons. Health trumps likes/dislikes.

 

You didnt quite answer the question directly, did you? Is it because by your own reasoning it makes you out to be a total jerk?

No I didnt answer because I thought it was a rhetorical question, no of course I wouldnt smoke. I dont smoke anywhere I'm not asked to and I've said this several times already, so I'm not the jerk you believe me to be. In fact I put myself out all the time for non smokers even when I think they are being unreasonable.

[warri0r45]

I was arguing you shouldnt get to boot me out of the house *all* the time.

 

 

 

I see what you're saying, but I think we need to bring some context into this. If you go to someones house, it's their rules or the highway as far as I'm concerned. That could potentially mean no smoking inside; no exceptions, no 50/50.

 

 

 

But, if I go to your house and your rules are that smoking inside is ok, then I'd have to go along with that and remove myself from your vicinity should you decide to light up. The thing about this scenario is that I feel such a person would be an inconsiderate jerk, whether it be their house or not. Again, many reasonable people I know (family included) are quite happy to go outside and smoke, even if it's their own house. The reason being: it's not that big of a deal to go outside for a smoke to avoid giving your friend a lungfull. As for the scenario of it being freezing cold outside, I've never had to deal with that one but I suppose the people involved would have to have that argument amongst themselves. If my smoking friend was adamant enough about the temperature, then sure, I'd probably go to another room or leave.

[Shinjula]

So to me logically you should get you way half the time and i should get my way half the time. I wasnt arguing that I should always get to smoke, I was arguing you shouldnt get to boot me out of the house *all* the time.

 

 

 

Why not? When I invite someone over to my house, I expect them not to stink up my house and irritate my lungs. When I go out to eat my dinner in a restaurant, I expect to be able to enjoy my dinner just as anyone else should without having to inhale irritating smoke. Even if it is your house and you are a smoker, you should put out your cigarette. Many people are bothered by it and can't stand the smell/health risks. Smoking isn't a primary function, if a restaurant is full of people and 1 person is smoking, you can't expect all of those people to walk outside to get fresh air. It's common courtesy, which sadly many people don't care about these days.

 

Firstly a very important thing, whic does keep getting missed off my argument whenever someone new comes in, this is purely directed at a comment earlier about the 'smell' of cigarettes, not the health implications or the physical effects such as irritation of the throat or eyes - you are responding to me, so as such you have to be aware that what you are actually responding to, may not be what you *THINK* you are responding to.

 

 

 

Well because its an unfair distribution of rights, if you want something and I want something different then theres two of us so a fifty fity split violates the least amount of wants. Obviously if its a full restaurant and there only one person smoking I wouldnt expect all those people to go outside while the person smoked inside. But the opposite is also true. If one non smoker was in a restaurant full of smokers should he expect all the smokers to move outside? That would be equally unfair.

 

Fairness is a two way street, sure I can understand that you might not want me to smoke in your house (and I would honour that), but if you make that sort of a decision, you have no right at all to expect me to put out my cigarette when I'm smoking in my own house and you visit. If you will not accomadate me I have no reason to accommodate you.

 

 

 

Now bear in mind the above applies only to a fictitious cigarette which only smells bad, there are health concerns with tobacco which swing it slightly your way and I'm also a nice guy who is generally happy to go along with whatever people want. But on a purely theoretical basis, you should ideally give and take 50-50.

[Shinjula]

As for the scenario of it being freezing cold outside, I've never had to deal with that one but I suppose the people involved would have to have that argument amongst themselves. If my smoking friend was adamant enough about the temperature, then sure, I'd probably go to another room or leave.

Can I ask where you live and what sort of temperatures you deal with?

[Shinjula]

I see what you're saying, but I think we need to bring some context into this. If you go to someones house, it's their rules or the highway as far as I'm concerned. That could potentially mean no smoking inside; no exceptions, no 50/50.

Then I'd simply not visit them, particularly in view of the stuff in the next paragraph, but also in general, I live in a democracy, and I supposrt democracy. if you make your house a dictatorship i will not go there. I realise this to many people is a strange idea, but think about it, think about how you would view a country with those sort of rules and whether or not thats actually a system you want in place in your very home.

 

I was raised in a culture where hospitality was a major feature, in my parents house the guest was almost king for a day, now I dont go that far myself, but having everyone present to be part of the decision making process at any time is not an unreasonable way of living. I hope you understand.

[warri0r45]

I was also assuming that any negitive physical effects such as irritation of your throat was included more in the arguments for health reasons than the dislike reasons. This I think is a lot of what I believe I have miscommunicated to you. I have been purely talking about the dislike aspects of it, in the same way some people dont like the smell of curry or farts. I wasnt including the whole experience of having someone in your house who is smoking, I wasnt including the dirt or irritating effect, I was only arguing that asking someone to leave because of a dislike of a smell would be no different than asking someone to leave because you didnt like the smell of their deodorant. Anything further is a subtly differnt question and I have a different answer to it (most of which are "Yeah sure no problem mate, ill just pop out")

 

 

 

Then I suppose we agree after all, for you see I was including the whole experience. Cigarette smoke is an irritant and doesn't sit well with people. As I tried to make out in my original post, it's not just an odour thing, nor is it exactly equitable to smelling garlic or curry, etc.

 

 

 

As for my reaction to stagnant smoke being atypical, I've had some negative experiences with it as I explained, but I don't think my reaction to it is so out of the ordinary for non-smokers to have (remember, I'm talking a fair bit of stagnant smoke here). Perhaps they aren't bothered by it to the exact degree that I am, but that's beside the point when we're comparing cigarette smoke and an orange t-shirt. Either way, I think I'll let other people here decide their feelings on stagnant cigarette smoke. Consider this an open invitation for replies, people.

 

 

 

As for the golden pedestal quip, it was mostly directed at the point that you still feel that the host is a jerk should they tell you to smoke outside (freezing or not), which essentially means you value your right to smoke inside more than their right not to breathe in your smoke, does it not?

 

 

 

No I didnt answer because I thought it was a rhetorical question, no of course I wouldnt smoke. I dont smoke anywhere I'm not asked to and I've said this several times already, so I'm not the jerk you believe me to be. In fact I put myself out all the time for non smokers even when I think they are being unreasonable.

 

 

 

My point in that question was to denounce the idea that I'm egotistical should I want you to smoke outside - in reality it's a pretty unreasonable thing to confront someone with (calling the non-smoker egotistical), considering the circumstances. Added, If that were the case, then you would be egotistical for forcing me to breathe in your stagnant smoke. I think "inconsiderate" would be a more apt term to use, but that's going off on a tangent anyway.

[warri0r45]

As for the scenario of it being freezing cold outside, I've never had to deal with that one but I suppose the people involved would have to have that argument amongst themselves. If my smoking friend was adamant enough about the temperature, then sure, I'd probably go to another room or leave.

Can I ask where you live and what sort of temperatures you deal with?

 

 

 

Admittedly, I live in Australia where the climate is typically warm (say an average of 25-35 deg. C in summer?). Given this, there's no real reason not to go outside if you're a smoker.

[warri0r45]

I see what you're saying, but I think we need to bring some context into this. If you go to someones house, it's their rules or the highway as far as I'm concerned. That could potentially mean no smoking inside; no exceptions, no 50/50.

Then I'd simply not visit them, particularly in view of the stuff in the next paragraph, but also in general, I live in a democracy, and I supposrt democracy. if you make your house a dictatorship i will not go there. I realise this to many people is a strange idea, but think about it, think about how you would view a country with those sort of rules and whether or not thats actually a system you want in place in your very home.

 

I was raised in a culture where hospitality was a major feature, in my parents house the guest was almost king for a day, now I dont go that far myself, but having everyone present to be part of the decision making process at any time is not an unreasonable way of living. I hope you understand.

 

 

 

I understand, but I disagree fundamentally. It's not unreasonable to lay down basic ground rules for your house because it's your house and you own it. I'm all for being hospitable, but that means hospitable for all people and not just the smokers.

 

 

 

My house rule #1 would be only smoking outside. Sure, smoke all you like, and I'd likely join you out there because the breeze usually sorts it out. Rule #2 would be empties in one spot so I can chuck them out tomorrow. Rule #3 would be everyone pitches in for the strippers.

 

 

 

And yes, you are invited to the party.

[Kenshinjapan]

I see what you're saying, but I think we need to bring some context into this. If you go to someones house, it's their rules or the highway as far as I'm concerned. That could potentially mean no smoking inside; no exceptions, no 50/50.

Then I'd simply not visit them, particularly in view of the stuff in the next paragraph, but also in general, I live in a democracy, and I supposrt democracy. if you make your house a dictatorship i will not go there. I realise this to many people is a strange idea, but think about it, think about how you would view a country with those sort of rules and whether or not thats actually a system you want in place in your very home.

 

I was raised in a culture where hospitality was a major feature, in my parents house the guest was almost king for a day, now I dont go that far myself, but having everyone present to be part of the decision making process at any time is not an unreasonable way of living. I hope you understand.

 

 

 

This is what makes people see you as a jerk. Sure, your guests were king in your house when they stayed over, because that's being hospitable. However, being hospitable doesn't mean you suddenly lose authority in your house. If you refuse to go to someone's house because they won't let you smoke inside of it claiming that they're being rude and unhospitable, then yes, you are a selfish jerk.

 

 

 

Also, you can't compare a country to a house. A country holds millions of people over thousands of miles. In an average household of 4, if 1 person smokes, the entire family is affected for days or weeks.

[Shinjula]

As for the golden pedestal quip, it was mostly directed at the point that you still feel that the host is a jerk should they tell you to smoke outside (freezing or not), which essentially means you value your right to smoke inside more than their right not to breathe in your smoke, does it not?

 

I didnt say they'd be a jerk for asking me to smoke outside, i said id think them a jerk if they asked me to eat a kebab outside because of the smell. I can understand you making the inference that my reaction would be the same for smoking, but it was a response purely to the idea of smell, the health issues do change the reaction completely.

 

 

 

My point in that question was to denounce the idea that I'm egotistical should I want you to smoke outside

Again misrepresenting what I was saying, it was specifically directed at your comment which was quite isolated from your other comments about health, and I specifically made clear at the time that i was meaning it separately to other issues of health. Not allowing someone to smoke purely because of the smell is egotistical, not allowing someone to smoke because it irritates your throat is quite quite different ,and finally transfering it to a completely generalistic "I'm egotistical should I want you to smoke outside" is a step far too far.

 

Please pay attention to the things I am actually saying rather than lashing out at me. I am an intelligent person, if it sounds like im saying something completely crazy its probably because youve misread what I'm saying or trying to say.