Political Stereotypes

[l0l0lpur32]

Socialism = OMGORWELLIANISM.

 

 

 

True story.

 

Yeah it's a great system which helps the poor, only 100 million or so have died from it right?

 

A valid jibe, considering democracy has only ever created sunshine, rainbows and happy faces wherever it has gone.

 

Thanks for admitting communism/socialism and democracy cannot coexist? :\ and I consider attempting to deny (or even worse, justify) the mass murder carried out in China, Russia etc just as bad as attempting to deny the holocaust.

 

Funny how you mention the Massacre of and the Holocaust, when they aren't valid points here. They can coexist, provided you break down each system to their simplest forms. The best I could pull from them is as so:

 

 

 

Democracy: 2 parties control some of the country, uses a voting system.

 

Communism: One ruling party, but everyone works together and gets their fair share

 

Socialism: Redistribution of wealth, and helping the poor.

 

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

[oegly41]

 

Democracy: 2 parties control some of the country, uses a voting system.

 

Communism: One ruling party, but everyone works together and gets their fair share

 

Socialism: Redistribution of wealth, and helping the poor.

 

You are describing indirect democracy and authoritarian communism.

 

 

 

In other forms of democracy, like direct democracy, people vote on leaders, but they also vote on decisions. On a smaller scale, direct democracy can even go through discussion.

 

 

 

Communism is an economic ideology, not a form of government. Most attempts of communism have been authoritarian forms of communism, with great social control through a strong state, but many great communist philosophers have disapproved of this form. Marx himself was an anarchist.

 

 

 

Just for the attempt debates:

 

 

 

tDg211Z9yPU

[Quoi_Tu]

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

 

 

 

Be careful with the words "every time" because smaller communities can achieve communism much more easily than larger states. In general, a socialist system is run with an increase in government control over the economy, which can lead to a corruption of power. No one likes power corruption.

 

 

 

I think there is a whole thread on this lurking a page or so back: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=770726&hilit=socialism

[dsavi]

This was a dumb post :(

[Ginger_Warrior]

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

 

The National Health Service

 

Committing mass genocide since 1948 :thumbup:

[Quoi_Tu]

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

 

 

 

Yes, Finland has no freedom of press, is full of murder, and is a dictatorship, all due to socialism.

 

 

 

Finland's also not very diverse. CIA

[l0l0lpur32]

Communism is an economic ideology, not a form of government. Most attempts of communism have been authoritarian forms of communism, with great social control through a strong state, but many great communist philosophers have disapproved of this form. Marx himself was an anarchist.

 

Left-wing economics require a strong state to enforce, though. (Unless everyone agreed to enforce them off their own accord).

[l0l0lpur32]

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

 

 

 

Yes, Finland has no freedom of press, is full of murder, and is a dictatorship, all due to socialism.

 

Since when was Finland communist/socialist? Just a few bits of reading about political suppression & genocide in communist/socialist states:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_purge

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka#Supp ... Opposition

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_R ... ersecution

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_terrorism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_ ... _Communism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Cast ... hts_record

[Lenticular_J]

Finland's likely the best example of socialism in the modern world, actually.

 

 

 

BUT. It has a tiny population without very much diversity, as Quoi posted.

[l0l0lpur32]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_finland

 

Finland has a highly industrialized, free-market economy with a per capita output equal to that of other western economies such as France, Germany, Sweden or the UK. The largest sector of the economy is services at 65.7 percent, followed by manufacturing and refining at 31.4 percent.

 

Although public spending there is higher than the European average, mixed, not socialist.

[1_man_army]

[hide=]

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

 

 

 

Yes, Finland has no freedom of press, is full of murder, and is a dictatorship, all due to socialism.

 

Since when was Finland communist/socialist?[/hide] Just a few bits of reading about political suppression & genocide in communist/socialist states:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_purge

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka#Supp ... Opposition

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_R ... ersecution

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_terrorism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_ ... _Communism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Cast ... hts_record

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco#Pol ... Oppression

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Rendition

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._suppo ... 93Iraq_war

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile_unde ... violations

 

 

 

See things aren't so black and white as you would like to make out.

[l0l0lpur32]

[hide=]

If communism/socialism is such a nice system which helps the poor, then why has every time communism/socialism has being tried in a country, it has became a dictatorship, and had some sort of mass murder/genocide?

 

 

 

Yes, Finland has no freedom of press, is full of murder, and is a dictatorship, all due to socialism.

 

Since when was Finland communist/socialist?[/hide] Just a few bits of reading about political suppression & genocide in communist/socialist states:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_purge

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka#Supp ... Opposition

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_R ... ersecution

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_terrorism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_ ... _Communism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Cast ... hts_record

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco#Pol ... Oppression

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Rendition

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._suppo ... 93Iraq_war

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile_unde ... violations

 

 

 

See things aren't so black and white as you would like to make out.

 

Yep, the "far right" and "far left" have a lot of similarities for supposed polar opposites.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Go on, I dare you, try and argue Communism and Fascism are the same. Take the bait - I'm waiting!

 

 

 

What exactly was Thatcherism, if not the political suppression of the workers via removing the miners' right to strike by using the police to smash any picket line going?

 

 

 

What exactly was segregation in America, if not the political and economic suppression of black people?

 

 

 

What exactly was homophobia in the moderate Western world, if not the political suppression of homosexuals?

 

 

 

What exactly was sexism, if not the polit...

 

 

 

Do you get the picture yet? No economic or political system is perfect. If you think democratic capitalism is the perfect model, then I've no business even arguing with you. You've already lost through ignorance. The only thing you can say is it's the least worst model.

[snowager286]

I agree strongly agree with Ginger. Their are flaws inherent in every system. For example, in pure capitalism you have rampant abuse of the lower class, a more volatile economy , and finally excessive consumerism and health hazards. However, with socialism you get a whole other set of problems. Like stagnant economic growth, lack of market variety(limited choice) lack of motivation to work hard, and finally an overall lower quality of goods.

[Sir_Redhead]

This is just a thought of mine, but maybe people's views would vary if our media wasn't so liberal, and showed both sides of the issue..

 

 

 

Personally, I lean more on the conservative side, but I make my decisions according to the issues at hand, not just because so and so conservative man sais this, or so and so liberal man sais this.

[Quoi_Tu]

This is just a thought of mine, but maybe people's views would vary if our media wasn't so liberal, and showed both sides of the issue..

 

 

 

Er, Fox news? Quite the conservative news channel. Also, considering we had a republican in office the past 8 years, I think the "liberal" media doesn't have as much effect on people's views as you think.

[1_man_army]

This is just a thought of mine, but maybe people's views would vary if our media wasn't so liberal, and showed both sides of the issue.

 

 

 

In UK the television news legally has to remain impartial however, we are more liberal here than in America, so that isn't necessarily so.

[oegly41]

I think neutrality is very relative. CNN is probably extremely right wing in Norway and rest of Northern Europe.

[BlueLancer]

I think neutrality is very relative. CNN is probably extremely right wing in Norway and rest of Northern Europe.

 

 

 

I'd also concur with that, CNN is generally seen as slightly right-wing and conservative in Europe & the north, but it's still a reliable source for news.

 

 

 

The most reliable news agency in Europe (and possibly in the world) is probably BBC. Hysterical anti-liberals and anti-conservatives say what you will - people from every country with TV access watch either BBC, DW or al-Jazeera to get international news. Middle-easterns, asians, europeans, south americans, africans..

 

 

 

Fox is available in countries outside the US via satellite usually, but it's not even nearly as known or trusted as any of the above mentioned. DW, al-Jazeera and BBC dub or subtitle news into dozens of languages frequently.

 

 

 

Heck, BBC even has real-time visual & audio news in the somali language.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be blunt - you aren't watching real, truly objective news by watching Fox or CNN. A news agency that broadcasts into hundreds of countries instead of mostly 1 single one (USA) is bound to be of higher quality. People from all ethnicities and religions follow up on DW/BBC news. Next to nobody in the world follows up on Fox news besides americans. CNN is a bit more popular but only in Europe.

[megakiller32]

I think neutrality is very relative. CNN is probably extremely right wing in Norway and rest of Northern Europe.

 

 

 

I'd also concur with that, CNN is generally seen as slightly right-wing and conservative in Europe & the north, but it's still a reliable source for news.

 

 

 

The most reliable news agency in Europe (and possibly in the world) is probably BBC. Hysterical anti-liberals and anti-conservatives say what you will - people from every country with TV access watch either BBC, DW or al-Jazeera to get international news. Middle-easterns, asians, europeans, south americans, africans..

 

 

 

Fox is available in countries outside the US via satellite usually, but it's not even nearly as known or trusted as any of the above mentioned. DW, al-Jazeera and BBC dub or subtitle news into dozens of languages frequently.

 

 

 

Heck, BBC even has real-time visual & audio news in the somali language.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be blunt - you aren't watching real, truly objective news by watching Fox or CNN. A news agency that broadcasts into hundreds of countries instead of mostly 1 single one (USA) is bound to be of higher quality. People from all ethnicities and religions follow up on DW/BBC news. Next to nobody in the world follows up on Fox news besides americans. CNN is a bit more popular but only in Europe.

 

 

 

BBC is pretty reliable, but it's radio coverage is good; you can get World Service wherever you are in the world :D

 

As opposed to Al-Jazeera which is so Bias they make CNN look socialist.

[oegly41]

From the experience I have from BBC, they cover most sides of most issues. Also, they cover a few not so controversial issues. Am I right?

[dsavi]

BBC is pretty reliable, but it's radio coverage is good; you can get World Service wherever you are in the world :D

 

As opposed to Al-Jazeera which is so Bias they make CNN look socialist.

 

I hate the BBC, they're always on when I want to listen to NPR.

[BlueLancer]

BBC is pretty reliable, but it's radio coverage is good; you can get World Service wherever you are in the world :D

 

As opposed to Al-Jazeera which is so Bias they make CNN look socialist.

 

I hate the BBC, they're always on when I want to listen to NPR.

 

 

 

Burn CD's/buy a FM transmitter & plug it in your mp3 player 8-) (Especially useful when driving a car)

 

 

 

I haven't listened to music from commercial radio channels for ages, too much talking crap and ads. It's much easier to download the songs and play them in any order you want.

 

 

 

Really, commercial radio blows in every country. If it's Radio Jazz or Rock or whatever it claims to be, I'd expect almost constant music with the occassional short ad-spot, not some lame unknown commentators laughing at each other's old jokes for 10 minutes then cycling the same 5 songs all day long.

[Nowayout59]

 

Er, Fox news? Quite the conservative news channel. Also, considering we had a republican in office the past 8 years, I think the "liberal" media doesn't have as much effect on people's views as you think.

 

 

 

 

You think that the media doesn't have an effect?

 

 

 

Go to this site -------> CLICK ME!

 

 

 

Then tell me they don't.