Closed.

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Excuse my lack of knowledge on this terminology but isn't sidestepping just another form of farcasting in which your opponent can't hit you but you can hit them? If that's the case, good luck setting that positioning up, watching out for pjers w/ overpowered dragon claws, making sure you don't splash on the huge magic defense bonus, and breaking through passive magic defense, getting your magic level reduced, getting damaged and healing the ranger at the same time because of that damage, etc.

 

Sidestepping also includes stepping at the edge of your spell range, outside of where a ranger can hit you even on long range.

 

 

 

 

My answers indicate that I know the complications of doing said techniques on experienced opponents. Splashes, weak armor, and expensive spells are all valid examples of the difficulties mages face. I'm sorry, but when I PvP I tend not to fight imbecile rangers who will let you farcast/sidestep/x them. Jagex has specifically stated ranged>magic. YOU have stated ranged> magic. Stop contradicting yourself.

 

All of those are the obvious drawbacks. I'm discussing the technical difficulties, such as using the function keys to combo a spell and special with 1 click. Jagex's combat triangle is not an end all be all; I have held firm to my position that mage can beat most rangers.

 

 

 

 

My ideas are based on extensive experience; you have no right to comment on that - it's sophomoric. I have tried the methods listed in your posts. Don't forget, I both staked and pked. Ignorance in the arena will cost you dearly, and I made sure not to be ignorant of those techniques. However, I have repeated, NOT parroted, time and again, that your methods are unreliable and cost too much for the average runescaper who has but a few mil. Let's make magic a little more friendly toward them, ay?

 

You have not provided one ounce of evidence, numbers, levels, or equipment used in ANY of your methods, and have indeed shown ignorance towards most of the finer details. My stats are in my signature; friends can attest to my 1,500+ hours of PVP experience.

 

 

 

 

Oh, so you know Lolcats? Good to hear. I posted that as merely a comedic trinket to drain some of vast sea of negativity you exude. By the way, not only is my vocabulary on par or above yours, but I understood what you meant by parroting from the very beginning. You parroted your superiority and godliness without thinking about the financial assets and real in-game circumstances of other players. How's that for a sentence, you jerk? And for your information, I'm 6 months old, so there! :roll:

 

Lastly, parroting would be the incorrect word to use, since I've both eloquently countered everything that has been said against my argument, and I have aquired great understanding from my extensive experience.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of sarcasm. Parroting implies repeating the same (generally incorrect) statement over and over instead of responding to individual arguments, which is PRECISELY what you have been doing - you STILL have no answer as to how melee will hit without getting within 5 squares of the mage, or how range will hit when the mager is never within his range even on 'long range'. You are constantly repeating the stupefyingly obvious 'well magic can splash' and 'magic costs too much' instead of responding to my arguments of careful running, sidestepping, and dodging. You have never even mentioned your outfits and levels, this being the first time you have even MENTIONED experience; I have provided screenshots and details on both. Perhaps once you show your outfits and methods I can explain why you are finding magic so difficult to use; 99 magic, wolpertingers, and +15% magic pray all make for very accurate spells which, coupled with careful dodging, easily keep you out of reach of both melee and range.

[Veritas94]

Sidestepping also includes stepping at the edge of your spell range, outside of where a ranger can hit you even on long range.

 

 

 

That's nice. I don't believe you'll pull it off against a ranger. By the time your done adjusting yourself, and running, you will have suffered very substantial damage. And when you have him frozen, then what? Keep casting magic on ranged armor. I know better then to do that.

 

 

 

 

 

All of those are the obvious drawbacks. I'm discussing the technical difficulties, such as using the function keys to combo a spell and special with 1 click. Jagex's combat triangle is not an end all be all; I have held firm to my position that mage can beat most rangers.

 

 

 

Jagex's triangle is what we're aiming to adjust because of obvious imbalances which deviate from intended gameplay; I.e. making the triangle closer to what is intended. Even so, "the obvious drawbacks" remain, and I can't understand how mages can beat most rangers.

 

 

 

 

You have not provided one ounce of evidence, numbers, levels, or equipment used in ANY of your methods, and have indeed shown ignorance towards most of the finer details. My stats are in my signature; friends can attest to my 1,500+ hours of PVP experience.

 

 

 

I'm not going to post my stats here, and I probably feel this way because I want to keep the elitism of stats out of this conversation for the reasons of discussing pure mechanics. I have and will again post my methods and experiences, but it's 12:30 on a school night and I'm a little embarrassed to still be on this forum arguing with you. I care too much :(. You and I are currently arguing about power of magic in order to ascertain whether or not magic should or should not become cheaper, correct?

 

 

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of sarcasm. Parroting implies repeating the same (generally incorrect) statement over and over instead of responding to individual arguments, which is PRECISELY what you have been doing - you STILL have no answer as to how melee will hit without getting within 5 squares of the mage, or how range will hit when the mager is never within his range even on 'long range'. You are constantly repeating the stupefyingly obvious 'well magic can splash' and 'magic costs too much' instead of responding to my arguments of careful running, sidestepping, and dodging. You have never even mentioned your outfits and levels, this being the first time you have even MENTIONED experience; I have provided screenshots and details on both. Perhaps once you show your outfits and methods I can explain why you are finding magic so difficult to use; 99 magic, wolpertingers, and +15% magic pray all make for very accurate spells which, coupled with careful dodging, easily keep you out of reach of both melee and range.

 

 

 

I think we've argued enough on the point of P2P Magic vs. Melee pvp. I can't convince you, and your combos, gear, and utilization of miasmic spells which should NOT be included in the calculation have not convinced me. Frankly, I'd rather turn the conversation to F2P PvP, which is where I was headed before you guys got me sidetracked on cost of P2P spells. P2P, in which you're apparently god, has not been the same for me. Defense bonuses have gotten so rediculous for meleers and rangers that it takes huge specials to K0 your opponent, and we've debated the nature of combos. I think I've posted enough on my experiences, and the fact that magic+x hybrid is actually weaker than ranged/melee hybrids. Using x combat style + magic (unless it's a switch from miasmic to melee/ranged for the purposes of improving something other than magic, LOL) is gimping yourself, and I've spoken enough about it to see I've made no progress whatsoever in proving this to you.

[Obtaurian]

Surely the OP would agree to put his argument to the test? Warrior and Compfreak would be happy to prove that magic is truly on par with range and melee, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Seems to me that the only way anything is going to be settled here is by first hand experience.

[Veritas94]

Surely the OP would agree to put his argument to the test? Warrior and Compfreak would be happy to prove that magic is truly on par with range and melee, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Seems to me that the only way anything is going to be settled here is by first hand experience.

 

 

 

The numbers of meleers/rangers/mages speak for themselves. Magic requires extremely quick thinking and a great deal of luck to pull off, and there are many drawbacks to it. A few pages back, I think Compfreak agreed that one could reasonably remove the magic combos in place of a special attack that hits just as hard as ranged and melee specials do.

[Obtaurian]

Surely the OP would agree to put his argument to the test? Warrior and Compfreak would be happy to prove that magic is truly on par with range and melee, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Seems to me that the only way anything is going to be settled here is by first hand experience.

 

 

 

The numbers of meleers/rangers/mages speak for themselves. Magic requires extremely quick thinking and a great deal of luck to pull off, and there are many drawbacks to it. A few pages back, I think Compfreak agreed that one could reasonably remove the magic combos in place of a special attack that hits just as hard as ranged and melee specials do.

 

 

 

Apparently not, if we're all still in complete disagreement. What "numbers" are you referring to?

[Veritas94]

If Compfreak wants to do testing, then I'd ask him to vs. someone of my choosing who has roughly equal stats. However, I really want to get back to F2P PvP because P2P discussions are getting me nowhere.

[Veritas94]

Apparently not, if we're all still in complete disagreement. What "numbers" are you referring to?

 

 

 

Populations of mages, meleers, and rangers in PvP worlds.

 

 

 

Good night. I'll respond back as soon as I can.

[Obtaurian]

If Compfreak wants to do testing, then I'd ask him to vs. someone of my choosing who has roughly equal stats. However, I really want to get back to F2P PvP because P2P discussions are getting me nowhere.

 

 

 

Warrior5024 is a skilled mage. He did write the guide, after all. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet a few geepee that Compfreak is a skilled ranger. If they'd agree to it, we could do some real testing.

[compfreak847]

That's nice. I don't believe you'll pull it off against a ranger. By the time your done adjusting yourself, and running, you will have suffered very substantial damage. And when you have him frozen, then what? Keep casting magic on ranged armor. I know better then to do that.

 

Black d hide body has a grand total of 50 magic defence. Any good tank ranger should have torags legs\helm, an accumulator, and a shield without much (if any) magic defence. Tank rangers aren't this massive wall of magic defence - my outfit has almost 3 times the range defence!

 

 

 

 

Jagex's triangle is what we're aiming to adjust because of obvious imbalances which deviate from intended gameplay; I.e. making the triangle closer to what is intended. Even so, "the obvious drawbacks" remain, and I can't understand how mages can beat most rangers.

 

Then you should try it. Don't argue unless you've walked a mile in the mager's shoes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to post my stats here, and I probably feel this way because I want to keep the elitism of stats out of this conversation for the reasons of discussing pure mechanics. I have and will again post my methods and experiences, but it's 12:30 on a school night and I'm a little embarrassed to still be on this forum arguing with you. I care too much :(. You and I are currently arguing about power of magic in order to ascertain whether or not magic should or should not become cheaper, correct?

 

Stats are a measure of your abilities in a certain skill, and I'm merely trying to confirm that you have 99 mage\range to be sure we're talking on the same level.

 

 

 

FTP mage is powerful, it simply maxes out too early. That debate is an entirely separate issue.

 

 

 

I would be more then willing to do some testing against someone of equal combat level. I would gladly test both combat styles against a meleer of equal combat level and standard PKing gear.

[s1reatalot]

Magic has it's disadvanges and advanges, like barrage maxes at a amazing 30 damage (YAY!) and it can freeze, decrease stats, stop oppenents from teleporting, and other things, but when it comes to rangers, a mage is dead.

[Sir_Kurity]

No one seems to get, that with a few exceptions, its unbelievably easy to farcast any ranger, let alone a fighter.

[compfreak847]

No one seems to get, that with a few exceptions, its unbelievably easy to farcast any ranger, let alone a fighter.

 

*raises hand*. Farcasting is the power of magic. No other combat class has any real way of freezing.

[demby123]

No one seems to get, that with a few exceptions, its unbelievably easy to farcast any ranger, let alone a fighter.

 

Wouldn't a crystal bow hit a mage no matter how far he/she is casting?

 

I don't get how that works. :?

[compfreak847]

 

Wouldn't a crystal bow hit a mage no matter how far he/she is casting?

 

I don't get how that works. :?

 

Ever seen a PKer use a crystal bow?

 

 

 

Neither have I. Well, except for the clawing\1 iteming "pkers" that you should be running from anyway.

[Sir_Kurity]

No one seems to get, that with a few exceptions, its unbelievably easy to farcast any ranger, let alone a fighter.

 

Wouldn't a crystal bow hit a mage no matter how far he/she is casting?

 

I don't get how that works. :?

 

 

 

As i said, with a few exceptions. Dark bow, crystal bow apparently (though i have farcasted one b4?) Longrange settings, (which suck) and yea. Fortunately for us mages, few of these things ever get used.

[John Halo Chief]

If you can't take down someone meleeing than you do not know how to use mage correctly.

 

 

 

Its more than just auto casting ice burst.

 

 

 

 

 

ok, then U take the time to calculate the money, the exact runes needed, knowing that ur gonna...cast smoke burst every 5 ice burst? no. if u do, try getting a gf.

[compfreak847]

 

ok, then U take the time to calculate the money, the exact runes needed, knowing that ur gonna...cast smoke burst every 5 ice burst? no. if u do, try getting a gf.

 

You are pathetic. Please get off these forums or stop trolling.

 

 

 

Why should he have to know the exact runes? It's going to vary widely depending completely on the person being farcasted. Oh, and calculating 1 spell 4/5ths the time and another spell 1/5ths the time together is something that is currently taught in algebra 1, usually learned in 7th grade. I shudder to think of how old you are.

 

 

 

And what the hell does a girlfriend have to do with your argument? I could link to umpteen studies showing that being smarter equates to being more social, having more friends, going out more often, marrying more often and divorcing less blah blah blah, but I'll let Italian do that for himself.

[Sir_Kurity]

If you can't take down someone meleeing than you do not know how to use mage correctly.

 

 

 

Its more than just auto casting ice burst.

 

 

 

 

 

ok, then U take the time to calculate the money, the exact runes needed, knowing that ur gonna...cast smoke burst every 5 ice burst? no. if u do, try getting a gf.

 

 

 

So, in other words, if your half smart, try getting a gf?

 

 

 

You haven't even told us what you want us to calculate.

 

 

 

I swear, thick as a brick and twice as ugly.

[Veritas94]

The time is soon approaching when I will revise the thread to cater to the more clearly defined F2P problems. Sorry I haven't been responding as frequently. I'd like to address the fellow who said:

 

 

 

if u do, try getting a gf.

 

 

 

That was uncalled for, and I urge you to make points which relate the discussion of magic/ranged/melee mechanics.

 

 

 

 

 

I could link to umpteen studies showing that being smarter equates to being more social, having more friends, going out more often, marrying more often and divorcing less blah blah blah, but I'll let Italian do that for himself.

 

 

 

My sarcasm sensors are tingling.

[compfreak847]

 

My sarcasm sensors are tingling.

 

It's not sarcasm. It's a fact, check my post in off topic :P

[Veritas94]

 

It's not sarcasm. It's a fact, check my post in off topic :P

 

 

 

I have around 3 very good friends, and everyone else I consider an acquaintance. I don't go out a lot, and I don't enjoy inviting people to my house, either. Also, I don't have any interest in pursuing romance/girlfriends whatsoever, not because I lack the hormones, but because I find a whole concept of sexual reproduction amongst humans a base and vile thing that's slowly crippling our civilization as we know it. Lastly, I'm in high school, I take several college level courses, and I'm doing an independent studying of cellular biology and bioengineering/gene therapy. Meanwhile, the majority of my "socially-minded" peers lag behind in average classes, and they still do quite poorly. I'm hardly what you'd call social; in fact, I'm more reclusive than most other people I know.

 

 

 

You don't consider me any "less smart" than someone social, do you?

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

I have around 3 very good friends, and everyone else I consider an acquaintance. I don't go out a lot, and I don't enjoy inviting people to my house, either. Also, I don't have any interest in pursuing romance/girlfriends whatsoever, not because I lack the hormones, but because I find a whole concept of sexual reproduction amongst humans a base and vile thing that's slowly crippling our civilization as we know it. Lastly, I'm in high school, I take several college level courses, and I'm doing an independent studying of cellular biology and bioengineering/gene therapy. Meanwhile, the majority of my "socially-minded" peers lag behind in average classes, and they still do quite poorly. I'm hardly what you'd call social; in fact, I'm more reclusive than most other people I know.

 

 

 

You don't consider me any "less smart" than someone social, do you?

 

Correlation does not imply causation. At any rate, a single statistic is meaningless.

[Veritas94]

 

Correlation does not imply causation. At any rate, a single statistic is meaningless.

 

 

 

Sorry if I was being too harsh, but saying something like, "social people tend to be more intelligent than non-social people," pushes my buttons because of the reasons stated above.

 

 

 

And yes, I agree that social behavior is not a result of intelligence, and that intelligence is not a result of social behavior.

 

 

 

And yes, I'm a single outlying point on the graph of intelligence vs. social behavior (Or at least I consider myself to be), but I'm sure there are quite a few outliers like myself.

[compfreak847]

 

Sorry if I was being too harsh, but saying something like, "social people tend to be more intelligent than non-social people," pushes my buttons because of the reasons stated above.

 

No, that's not at all what I said. I said intelligent people tend to be more social then non-intelligent people. You can be one or the other. And the key word is TEND - it doesn't imply that you or anyone else is or isn't social.

[Veritas94]

 

Sorry if I was being too harsh, but saying something like, "social people tend to be more intelligent than non-social people," pushes my buttons because of the reasons stated above.

 

No, that's not at all what I said. I said intelligent people tend to be more social then non-intelligent people. You can be one or the other. And the key word is TEND - it doesn't imply that you or anyone else is or isn't social.

 

 

 

Eh, the relationship between being intelligent and being social is still there, regardless of the phrasing (I have some qualms about that relationship, but let us leave that for another time and another place). But yes, "tend" is a critical word in the sentence, I agree.