Well whoa darn! Obama has failed - already?

[War_Junky_91]

 

Cutting carbon emissions is great, but not [snip] in the middle of a global meltdown.

 

Couldn't a global meltdown be, say, the ice caps melting?

 

You know what the hell he meant.

 

 

 

EDIT: As for you being centrist, I have yet to see one liberal view you have had, in any of your posts on these forums. I might have missed something, but...

 

The last eight years liberals have done nothing but attack Bush. So there isn't exactly much he could root for then is there?

 

[raven_gaurd0]

 

You are aware that cows provide as much environment-stabbing gas a day as a truck driving like, 20,000 miles? Why aren't we mandating that we should kill cows or...at least ship them into space so we don't have to put up with their atomic flatulence?

 

 

For the same reason we're not banning cars. In today's society, they're basically a necessity. But people are working on ways of reducing cow's impact, just as there are people trying to make cars more efficient.

 

Cutting carbon emissions is great, but not [snip] in the middle of a global meltdown.

 

Couldn't a global meltdown be, say, the ice caps melting?

 

 

 

I expected Obama to try to be a mediator, but he's only gone with what I expected

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: As for you being centrist, I have yet to see one liberal view you have had, in any of your posts on these forums. I might have missed something, but...

 

 

 

Oooh, I did word that last part badly. I guess I mean to say, I hoped him to be a mediator, but I didn't expect it of him. As has been said, 'Hope is just the first step on the road of disappointment.'

 

 

 

And you want to know my left-wing policies? Well, for one I'm 100% gun control, I think the government needs a degree of control over it's population, and, if at all possible, should in fact have ALL control over their population. But I know that doesn't work, 'cept on paper. I do think that cutting global emission is good, but especially not now. (Call me back when the icebergs are actually, like, a tangible threat during this pressing economic crisis.) I'd like to spread the money around so that rich people don't get richer and poor people don't keep getting poorer. Unfortunately, we hardly ever argue the semantics of communism and socialism here, so I don't get much say....and finally, I am pro-drugs. Hell, it's your choice, and it only directly harms you.

 

 

 

And cows aren't necessary; far from it. They're just too tasty.

[Flyingjj]

 

You are aware that cows provide as much environment-stabbing gas a day as a truck driving like, 20,000 miles? Why aren't we mandating that we should kill cows or...at least ship them into space so we don't have to put up with their atomic flatulence?

 

 

 

Cutting carbon emissions is great, but not in a stimulus package, and not in the middle of a global meltdown.

 

 

 

As for the rest of the 'pork', it doesn't matter if we move towards those 'great' things in society, if it comes away from the economy and the finances of those people being benefited, then it's not as good.

 

 

 

I guess I'm disappointed 'cause I expected Obama to try to be a mediator, but he's only gone with what I expected - left wing policies. Which is, you know, his choice, but against his campaign promises of bipartisanship.

 

 

 

And for the LAST damn time, I am NOT right-winged. I am CENTRIST. I frown upon the Republicans being pouting little [puncture]s just as much as the next guy.

 

Let's see... You ignored the fact that he mentioned much more than carbon emissions in his argument about hybrid vehicles. Besides that, you're quoting a fact that uses all the cows in the world and compares it to about what 20 trucks can do in a day. How many trucks drive every day? More than 20, I assure you.

 

 

 

Spending money stimulates the economy in that that money is then used to PAY the people. For a direct example, spending money on infrastructure pays the salaries of the workers who mine the raw materials, those who process them into useable products, and then those who work to put those products to work in, say, bridges.

 

 

 

And the money is not coming from the pockets of taxpayers, at least not immediately. It's basically being pulled from nowhere(which I don't exactly approve of) and then being immediately spent. Sure, the money has to be paid back eventually, but the United States hasn't been debt free since, what, the Civil War? The money will be paid back, but it will be paid back when the economy is back in order by those who can afford it, not out of the pockets of the common man who is now struggling to pay bills.

 

 

 

It really is just Congress drawing party lines, not Obama. The parties won't agree, simply because they don't want to. The Republicans won't agree with the Democrats not because of the bill itself, but because they don't want the Democratic party and Obama to just take over.

[War_Junky_91]

The guy has 4 years and office and you shut him out in the first 3 weeks? Give him some time man.

 

Exactly. We don't know yet how this will work out.

 

 

 

Too many "omg obama is failing" threads.

 

All the Dems were taking pot shots at Bush during his term, now all the Repubs are taking shots at Obama, what goes around comes around. I am personally aiming for the kidneys :twisted:

 

 

 

Might you reconsider your avatar?

 

 

 

and it could be because Bush was a total failure at the end of and during his tenure, where criticism was warranted. I've already criticized Obama where I felt it was warranted, such as not listening to Paul Volcker enough, his continuous raids of Pakistan, and his hiding Bush from being convicted of War Crimes.

 

 

 

I will not reconsider my avatar, just because i have a creepy love of soviet weapons doesn't mean i'm a communist.

 

 

 

Tell me one bad thing Bush did that could not have been circumvented had America only stood behind its troops 100% and honestly did something with the war in Iraq instead of just complaining about it, besides going to war on bad intel.

[magekillr]

Tell me one bad thing Bush did that could not have been circumvented had America only stood behind its troops 100% and honestly did something with the war in Iraq instead of just complaining about it, besides going to war on bad intel.

 

 

 

Guantanamo Bay.

[War_Junky_91]

Tell me one bad thing Bush did that could not have been circumvented had America only stood behind its troops 100% and honestly did something with the war in Iraq instead of just complaining about it, besides going to war on bad intel.

 

 

 

Guantanamo Bay.

 

Guantanamo was established well before Bush and so was waterboarding.

[raven_gaurd0]

Guys, this isn't a Bush v. Obama thread.

 

 

 

As for the guy...above...I defenitely made another careless typo. I mean that a SINGLE cow produces as much as 20 trucks do a day. Source; http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/8/2483

 

 

 

I feel like I should re-read what I write, but I honestly don't have that kind of time.

 

 

 

P.S. I am, in fact, Communist.

 

 

 

P.P.S. Guantanamo Bay was necessary for the same reason the internment of the Japanese was necessary - and legal. Sip your Kool-Aid in your corner, but there are people who want to [bleep]ing KILL you. I disapprove of the act of it, myself, but I recognize that it's not a crime to do it, especially when it's necessary as thus.

 

 

 

EDIT: We haven't been out of debt since the damn Revolutionary War. No, we are NEVER going to pay it back.

[Range_This11]

 

P.P.S. Guantanamo Bay was necessary for the same reason the internment of the Japanese was necessary - and legal.

 

 

For the first time in a very long time, I am COMPLETELY speechless.

[magekillr]

Tell me one bad thing Bush did that could not have been circumvented had America only stood behind its troops 100% and honestly did something with the war in Iraq instead of just complaining about it, besides going to war on bad intel.

 

 

 

Guantanamo Bay.

 

Guantanamo was established well before Bush and so was waterboarding.

 

 

 

Yes, but not for the reasons that Bush used it for. I am not talking about the detention fascility in and of itself, I'm talking about the suspension of Habeas Corpus for the prisoners. They were there without being charged, even though prior detainees were there WITH charges.

[3rkid]

P.S. I am, in fact, Communist.

 

 

 

Wouldn't this make your original post written from a biased view?

[raven_gaurd0]

 

P.P.S. Guantanamo Bay was necessary for the same reason the internment of the Japanese was necessary - and legal.

 

 

For the first time in a very long time, I am COMPLETELY speechless.

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of it? I like it just as much as you do, but it was something that had to be done.

[raven_gaurd0]

P.S. I am, in fact, Communist.

 

 

 

Wouldn't this make your original post written from a biased view?

 

 

 

Yes. But how does Communism affect my standpoint on this bill? I would logically want it ALL the way in. All in, chips on the table, SHOW ME THE MONEY. But that isn't practical, so I'm arguing practically.

[War_Junky_91]

Tell me one bad thing Bush did that could not have been circumvented had America only stood behind its troops 100% and honestly did something with the war in Iraq instead of just complaining about it, besides going to war on bad intel.

 

 

 

Guantanamo Bay.

 

Guantanamo was established well before Bush and so was waterboarding.

 

 

 

Yes, but not for the reasons that Bush used it for. I am not talking about the detention fascility in and of itself, I'm talking about the suspension of Habeas Corpus for the prisoners. They were there without being charged, even though prior detainees were there WITH charges.

 

Ok fine, if we had taken care of Iraq we could have been scouring the mountains with the aid of Packistan and finding those terroists instead of torturing and imprisioning captured ones for information. Again, it could have all been avoided.

[Laura]

All I see are opinions. But, do you know anything about an economy?

We haven't been out of debt since the damn Revolutionary War. No, we are NEVER going to pay it back.

We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches.

 

 

 

Obama is the president amidst an economic turmoil (as some would consider it) and you're just looking at the first few weeks? And before anyone gives me any liberal, communist, or any other party crap, I don't lay my basis on parties.

[mmmcannibalism]

EDIT: We haven't been out of debt since the damn Revolutionary War. No, we are NEVER going to pay it back.

 

 

 

actually Andrew Jackson got us out of debt for a short time, he totally screwed up the economy but we were out of debt.

 

 

 

OT, I agree with the concept of the stimulus, but I think this bill is going to turn out very badly due to its many flaws such as the pork where stimulus should be.

[Range_This11]

 

P.P.S. Guantanamo Bay was necessary for the same reason the internment of the Japanese was necessary - and legal.

 

 

For the first time in a very long time, I am COMPLETELY speechless.

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of it? I like it just as much as you do, but it was something that had to be done.

 

I don't need to read the rest of it. The rounding up of Japanese-American CITIZENS by the United States Government was completely a violation of their civil liberties. It was one of the most racist things our government has done since the days of slavery. As George Carlin said, "Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away. The only right they had was ...Right this way! Into the internment camp."

[War_Junky_91]

P.S. I am, in fact, Communist.

 

 

 

Wouldn't this make your original post written from a biased view?

 

His view would be no more biased that a hardcore democrat or republican, infact i would expect his would be even less biased.

[raven_gaurd0]

 

P.P.S. Guantanamo Bay was necessary for the same reason the internment of the Japanese was necessary - and legal.

 

 

For the first time in a very long time, I am COMPLETELY speechless.

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of it? I like it just as much as you do, but it was something that had to be done.

 

I don't need to read the rest of it. The rounding up of Japanese-American CITIZENS by the United States Government was completely a violation of their civil liberties. It was one of the most racist things our government has done since the days of slavery. As George Carlin said, "Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away. The only right they had was ...Right this way! Into the internment camp."

 

 

 

*Clears throat.*

 

 

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

 

 

Both after 9/11 and the bombing of Pearl Harbor this became completely justified and legal.

 

There were no civil liberties to them. Not even the UN's list of Human Rights retain habeas corpus.

[Range_This11]

We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches.

 

 

 

Obama is the president amidst an economic turmoil (as some would consider it) and you're just looking at the first few weeks? And before anyone gives me any liberal, communist, or any other party crap, I don't lay my basis on parties.

 

In 15 years we'll see how Bush basically ruled the country by Executive Fiat. A President doesn't need Congress to pass an Executive order. He isn't helpless to the powers of Congress like you portray him, or any other President for that matter. Just wait awhile for it all to come spilling out.

[War_Junky_91]

 

P.P.S. Guantanamo Bay was necessary for the same reason the internment of the Japanese was necessary - and legal.

 

 

For the first time in a very long time, I am COMPLETELY speechless.

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of it? I like it just as much as you do, but it was something that had to be done.

 

I don't need to read the rest of it. The rounding up of Japanese-American CITIZENS by the United States Government was completely a violation of their civil liberties. It was one of the most racist things our government has done since the days of slavery. As George Carlin said, "Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away. The only right they had was ...Right this way! Into the internment camp."

 

In the defense of our goverment nothing even remotely like this had happened before. They took action, bad action, but it could have been a lot worse action such as mass killings. But at least no one was harmed and we now have a precident to prevent things like that from happening again. Though it may slip through in a twisted form on a smaller scale as seen today.

[Quoi_Tu]

We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches.

 

Surely, you aren't suggesting our imports and exports are equal?

 

 

 

What has Bush done?

 

 

 

OT, I agree with the concept of the stimulus, but I think this bill is going to turn out very badly due to its many flaws such as the pork where stimulus should be.

 

I don't think it will turn out badly, just not good enough. Right now projections still put unemployment rising to 7.9% (by optimistic estimates) with the current stimulus; close to 10% without it.

[Range_This11]

 

 

 

*Clears throat.*

 

 

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

 

 

Both after 9/11 and the bombing of Pearl Harbor this became completely justified and legal.

 

There were no civil liberties to them. Not even the UN's list of Human Rights retain habeas corpus.

 

Public safety? Invasion?

 

 

 

Yeah our base 2,390 miles away in Hawaii gets bombed, the Japanese are still over 3,000 miles away from the mainland, yet American citizens are rounded up like animals and put into internment camps under no reasons other than their nationality.

 

 

 

Did we go ahead and round up every Muslim or Middle Eastern person in America after 9/11? No, because it's inhumane and un-American to say that every Middle Eastern or Muslim citizen in America represents a terrorist's viewpoint, just as it was to claim that Japanese-American citizens were spies and wanted to take down America.

 

 

 

EDIT: And to War_Junky_91, I agree with you, but raven_guard is still insisting that it was justified. That's what I'm trying to prove.

[Laura]

We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches.

 

 

 

Obama is the president amidst an economic turmoil (as some would consider it) and you're just looking at the first few weeks? And before anyone gives me any liberal, communist, or any other party crap, I don't lay my basis on parties.

 

In 15 years we'll see how Bush basically ruled the country by Executive Fiat. A President doesn't need Congress to pass an Executive order. He isn't helpless to the powers of Congress like you portray him, or any other President for that matter. Just wait awhile for it all to come spilling out.

I'm not saying he's useless. What I am saying is that at the present, people portray him as a foolish and "dumb" president. Yet in 15 years, we'll all see him as a president who actually got things done.

[War_Junky_91]

We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches.

 

 

 

Obama is the president amidst an economic turmoil (as some would consider it) and you're just looking at the first few weeks? And before anyone gives me any liberal, communist, or any other party crap, I don't lay my basis on parties.

 

In 15 years we'll see how Bush basically ruled the country by Executive Fiat. A President doesn't need Congress to pass an Executive order. He isn't helpless to the powers of Congress like you portray him, or any other President for that matter. Just wait awhile for it all to come spilling out.

 

Here is a link to a website that lists all the executive orders issued by President George W. Bush (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html), find me the ones where you say he flexed his power and ruled over this country by bypassing Congress.

[raven_gaurd0]

 

 

 

*Clears throat.*

 

 

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

 

 

Both after 9/11 and the bombing of Pearl Harbor this became completely justified and legal.

 

There were no civil liberties to them. Not even the UN's list of Human Rights retain habeas corpus.

 

Public safety? Invasion?

 

 

 

Yeah our base 2,390 miles away in Hawaii gets bombed, the Japanese are still over 3,000 miles away from the mainland, yet American citizens are rounded up like animals and put into internment camps under no reasons other than their nationality.

 

 

 

Did we go ahead and round up every Muslim or Middle Eastern person in America after 9/11? No, because it's inhumane and un-American to say that every Middle Eastern or Muslim citizen in America represents a terrorist's viewpoint, just as it was to claim that Japanese-American citizens were spies and wanted to take down America.

 

 

 

EDIT: And to War_Junky_91, I agree with you, but raven_guard is still insisting that it was justified. That's what I'm trying to prove.

 

 

 

You're arguing against the Supreme Court, friend. They mandated it in 1942 and they haven't apologized for it since. The reaction to the Japanese was an OVERreaction, but it was justified because it was defending the majority. THAT'S democracy, whether you like it or not. Same thing. We rounded up a couple hundred suspected terrorist because we were protecting the majority.