Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 'm not saying he's useless. What I am saying is that at the present, people portray him as a foolish and "dumb" president. Yet in 15 years, we'll all see him as a president who actually got things done. Bush was the worst public speaker I have ever witnessed, he got us into at least one unjustified war in Iraq (possibly two if you want to believe the 9/11 conspiracies, but for the sake of sanity, Afghanistan was justified), increased governmental spending, sent our country into trillions of dollars worth of debt, and the list goes on. What exactly did he "Get Done"?, because when only 22% of the American public believes you're doing a good job, you know something is wrong. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches. Surely, you aren't suggesting our imports and exports are equal? What has Bush done? From a literal standpoint, it's impossible. But they aren't drastically in need for change. No Child Left Behind Prevented another terrorist strike, however relative the term "prevent" is. Income tax reforms Increased defensive research Health, or medicare reforms I can go on, if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_gaurd0 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 'm not saying he's useless. What I am saying is that at the present, people portray him as a foolish and "dumb" president. Yet in 15 years, we'll all see him as a president who actually got things done. Bush was the worst public speaker I have ever witnessed, he got us into at least one unjustified war in Iraq (possibly two if you want to believe the 9/11 conspiracies, but for the sake of sanity, Afghanistan was justified), increased governmental spending, sent our country into trillions of dollars worth of debt, and the list goes on. What exactly did he "Get Done"?, because when only 22% of the American public believes you're doing a good job, you know something is wrong. Not necessarily. That just means that 78% of people THINK you're doing something wrong. Admittedly, they're probably right, and that's democracy for ya, but they could be wrong. That's speculation! 'cause you hate me. But I love you. EDIT: The Great Depression had 30 something% GDP decay a year and an unemployment rate of 25%. I don't quite think our current recession is nearly as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You're arguing against the Supreme Court, friend. They mandated it in 1942 and they haven't apologized for it since. The reaction to the Japanese was an OVERreaction, but it was justified because it was defending the majority. THAT'S democracy, whether you like it or not. Same thing. We rounded up a couple hundred suspected terrorist because we were protecting the majority. You just keep making a bigger fool out of yourself. In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership". About $1.6 billion in reparations were later disbursed by the U.S. government to surviving internees and their heirs. http://www.democracynow.org/1999/2/18/w ... _internees Thousands of Japanese-Americans under no suspicion other than that they were Japanese compared to "a couple hundred" suspected terrorists. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 'm not saying he's useless. What I am saying is that at the present, people portray him as a foolish and "dumb" president. Yet in 15 years, we'll all see him as a president who actually got things done. Bush was the worst public speaker I have ever witnessed, he got us into at least one unjustified war in Iraq (possibly two if you want to believe the 9/11 conspiracies, but for the sake of sanity, Afghanistan was justified), increased governmental spending, sent our country into trillions of dollars worth of debt, and the list goes on. What exactly did he "Get Done"?, because when only 22% of the American public believes you're doing a good job, you know something is wrong. Not necessarily. That just means that 78% of people THINK you're doing something wrong. Admittedly, they're probably right, and that's democracy for ya, but they could be wrong. That's speculation! 'cause you hate me. But I love you. For once, I do actually agree with that. What do Americans probably watch/read most? The news, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoi_Tu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches. Surely, you aren't suggesting our imports and exports are equal? What has Bush done? From a literal standpoint, it's impossible. But they aren't drastically in need for change. No Child Left Behind Prevented another terrorist strike, however relative the term "prevent" is. Income tax reforms Increased defensive research Health, or medicare reforms I can go on, if needed. Sorry, should have worded better. I was more curious to what you thought were his highpoints. No Child Left Behind didn't really work (it had good intentions, but played out badly) and "preventing" a terrorist strike is questionable. The one thing I didn't immediately recognize though were the income tax reforms. What were the specifics on that? Wait, is the bolded statement refering to imports and exports? Beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_gaurd0 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 You're arguing against the Supreme Court, friend. They mandated it in 1942 and they haven't apologized for it since. The reaction to the Japanese was an OVERreaction, but it was justified because it was defending the majority. THAT'S democracy, whether you like it or not. Same thing. We rounded up a couple hundred suspected terrorist because we were protecting the majority. You just keep making a bigger fool out of yourself. In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership". About $1.6 billion in reparations were later disbursed by the U.S. government to surviving internees and their heirs. http://www.democracynow.org/1999/2/18/w ... _internees Thousands of Japanese-Americans under no suspicion other than that they were Japanese compared to "a couple hundred" suspected terrorists. I'm still right. I said that the Supreme Court never apologized, and they mandated it in the first place. Get your talking point straight, please. It's still justified, if you believe in the Constitution, and if you don't then you better go fix it. EDIT: Quoi, in Bush's defense, we haven't been attacked by terrorist since 2001, while half the Western world has been bombed and raided up to it's eyeballs. (London, Berlin, and ESPECIALLY India and Israel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 For once, I do actually agree with that. What do Americans probably watch/read most? The news, perhaps? Yeah, so you're telling me that 78% of the country must be Democrats, Liberals, or uneducated morons that stare at the television all day. Hmm. The same people that can elect the President aren't taken seriously when they judge him? It's not a "Bush-Bashing Trend". The guy was a horrible President. End of story. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We don't need to pay off. In terms of debt, our imports:exports is on par, and there's little reason to cut funding just because of that. Why is everyone hating Bush? Do you actually look at the things he's done? No, of course not, it's all media propaganda. Which, might I add, thrives on the fears, failures, and tragedies of the world. If you're going to point the finger, point it at congress. All the president is, in figurative terms, is the spokesperson for the branches. Surely, you aren't suggesting our imports and exports are equal? What has Bush done? From a literal standpoint, it's impossible. But they aren't drastically in need for change. No Child Left Behind Prevented another terrorist strike, however relative the term "prevent" is. Income tax reforms Increased defensive research Health, or medicare reforms I can go on, if needed. Sorry, should have worded better. I was more curious to what you thought were his highpoints. No Child Left Behind didn't really work (it had good intentions, but played out badly) and "preventing" a terrorist strike is questionable. The one thing I didn't immediately recognize though were the income tax reforms. What were the specifics on that? Wait, is the bolded statement refering to imports and exports?Yes. All of those, I would have to say, are the high points. Though not many of them actually affected me. Oh, and increase military salaries. The GI bill was probably highlight, since I can use my fathers military status to pay for college. For once, I do actually agree with that. What do Americans probably watch/read most? The news, perhaps? Yeah, so you're telling me that 78% of the country must be Democrats, Liberals, or uneducated morons that stare at the television all day. Hmm. The same people that can elect the President aren't taken seriously when they judge him? It's not a "Bush-Bashing Trend". The guy was a horrible President. End of story. Stop putting words in my mouth, I said people read and watch the news. He was portrayed as a horrible president. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Junky_91 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 'm not saying he's useless. What I am saying is that at the present, people portray him as a foolish and "dumb" president. Yet in 15 years, we'll all see him as a president who actually got things done. Bush was the worst public speaker I have ever witnessed, he got us into at least one unjustified war in Iraq (possibly two if you want to believe the 9/11 conspiracies, but for the sake of sanity, Afghanistan was justified), increased governmental spending, sent our country into trillions of dollars worth of debt, and the list goes on. What exactly did he "Get Done"?, because when only 22% of the American public believes you're doing a good job, you know something is wrong. Not necessarily. That just means that 78% of people THINK you're doing something wrong. Admittedly, they're probably right, and that's democracy for ya, but they could be wrong. That's speculation! 'cause you hate me. But I love you. For once, I do actually agree with that. What do Americans probably watch/read most? The news, perhaps? Exactly and if the news can screw up something as simple as the story of a woman swimming across the Atlantic (she really didn't, but they said she did), i'm sure they could also do that on somebody they reported on a couple thousand times more than that girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm still right. I said that the Supreme Court never apologized, and they mandated it in the first place. Get your talking point straight, please. It's still justified, if you believe in the Constitution, and if you don't then you better go fix it. EDIT: Quoi, in Bush's defense, we haven't been attacked by terrorist since 2001, while half the Western world has been bombed and raided up to it's eyeballs. (London, Berlin, and ESPECIALLY India and Israel.) Alright, way to argue semantics on me. The Supreme Court, 9 citizens, did not apologize. The point is, it was WRONG that's why our own President apologized and gave reparations. It was an overreaction and in the end, was not justified. Did the Supreme Court ever apologize for slavery? Segregation? Stealing land from Native Americans? Those things must be justified as well, right? "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Junky_91 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 For once, I do actually agree with that. What do Americans probably watch/read most? The news, perhaps? Yeah, so you're telling me that 78% of the country must be Democrats, Liberals, or uneducated morons that stare at the television all day. Hmm. The same people that can elect the President aren't taken seriously when they judge him? It's not a "Bush-Bashing Trend". The guy was a horrible President. End of story. Brainwashing can change a lot, when 99% of the media is liberal and spreading lies they can drastically change public opinion. Just look at what Hitler accomplished in a few short years and he had no where near the rescources of the American Media. Edit: And America also wanted a scape-goat for all the bad going ons in the world that were and still are happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_gaurd0 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 For once, I do actually agree with that. What do Americans probably watch/read most? The news, perhaps? Yeah, so you're telling me that 78% of the country must be Democrats, Liberals, or uneducated morons that stare at the television all day. Hmm. The same people that can elect the President aren't taken seriously when they judge him? It's not a "Bush-Bashing Trend". The guy was a horrible President. End of story. DUDE. Have you SEEN America!? YES. Yes, I would not be surprised if 78% of everybody were idiots. However, I believe his lowest was 27%, not 22%. Semantics, my friend! The point is, liberals had a go at Bush, which I participated in at times and didn't at others (I liked Bush for his moral policies, anti-abortion and all that good stuff) and now it's down to Obama, which is what this thread is about. Now, there's gonna be a lot of people bashing Obama, and you know what? Unless you want to look like a hypocritical [puncture], I suggest you keep the personal rebuttals on the down-low. The point is, it was WRONG that's why our own President apologized and gave reparations. It was an overreaction and in the end, was not justified. Did the Supreme Court ever apologize for slavery? Segregation? Stealing land from Native Americans? Those things must be justified as well, right? EDIT: Maybe not, but there was nothing in the Constitution that said that we could. Slavery was never mentioned in the constitution as being justified. (We did have a clause about stealing land from the Indians, though. I think it's the same thing...they were a war-time state, so we stole their [cabbage]. That's life, mate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoi_Tu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yes. All of those, I would have to say, are the high points. Though not many of them actually affected me. Oh, and increase military salaries. The GI bill was probably highlight, since I can use my fathers military status to pay for college. The latest on international trade flows: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/interna ... elease.htm The U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, through the Department of Commerce, announced today that total December exports of $133.8 billion and imports of $173.7 billion resulted in a goods and services deficit of $39.9 billion, down from $41.6 billion in November, revised. December exports were $8.5 billion less than November exports of $142.3 billion. December imports were $10.2 billion less than November imports of $183.9 billion. The US has been running a trade deficit for a couple of decades now, since the Regan era. Overall, Bush hasn't really done much noteworthy. People make him out to have done worse than he has, but I think in the end he's just mediocre. Wow, this thread's was dragged off-topic fast. Beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_gaurd0 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Staying on topic is Communist, Quoi Tu. Are you Communist!? Huh!? P.S. Why is your name 'Why you'? It's depressing. P.P.S. The irony of me calling you a Communist with a negative connotation is sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The point is, it was WRONG that's why our own President apologized and gave reparations. It was an overreaction and in the end, was not justified. Did the Supreme Court ever apologize for slavery? Segregation? Stealing land from Native Americans? Those things must be justified as well, right? EDIT: Maybe not, but there was nothing in the Constitution that said that we could. Slavery was never mentioned in the constitution as being justified. (We did have a clause about stealing land from the Indians, though. I think it's the same thing...they were a war-time state, so we stole their [cabbage]. That's life, mate.) My advice to you is take a History class, followed by a Political Science class. I think your local community college could even offer it. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If Obama sneezes are you going to create a new thread? After reading the first page I've decided I'm not even going to contribute other than this. :( The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoi_Tu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Staying on topic is Communist, Quoi Tu. Are you Communist!? Huh!? P.S. Why is your name 'Why you'? It's depressing. P.P.S. The irony of me calling you a Communist with a negative connotation is sickening. Quoi means "what." If Obama sneezes are you going to create a new thread? After reading the first page I've decided I'm not even going to contribute other than this. It has potential ...somewhere! Beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingjj Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 No Child Left Behind a highlight of the Bush administration? You could say that, if you say everything else failed utterly, miserably and beyond repair. As a person who lived through all 8 of the Bush years as a student and child of a teacher, I must say that No Child Left Behind was one of the worst points of the Bush administration, and that might be saying something. What No Child Left Behind did was force teachers to waste time administering tests to every child in America, hold back academically gifted students, force children with learning and other disabilities to meet impossible standards, and fail to fund its own initiatives. Besides that, NCLB was founded upon a Texas study that was found to be inaccurate and faulty. Find me a teacher who thinks NCLB was a good idea, then we'll talk. And raven_gaurd, you're cow emissions source wasn't exactly clear, and didn't mention trucks at all. Want to know an actual waste of government money? Government money has actually been spent to study cow emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_gaurd0 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 To Range: Yes, I have taken both. I just prefer the nitty-gritty semantics offered by debate. As for my history, I see nothing wrong with it. As for Political Science...eh, too vague. To Quoi: Lighten up, people. We can get fired up over things, but I've never seen anybody here throw personal insults. At least, not any of the regulars. We all have our own opinions, it's our job to try to convince each other out of them, not to make the person feel bad. To Goddess: You make me sad. :( To Flyingjj: Those quantities of methane emission, when compared to the CO2 produced by vehicles, illustrate my point. Learn the metric system >:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yes. All of those, I would have to say, are the high points. Though not many of them actually affected me. Oh, and increase military salaries. The GI bill was probably highlight, since I can use my fathers military status to pay for college. The latest on international trade flows: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/interna ... elease.htm The U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, through the Department of Commerce, announced today that total December exports of $133.8 billion and imports of $173.7 billion resulted in a goods and services deficit of $39.9 billion, down from $41.6 billion in November, revised. December exports were $8.5 billion less than November exports of $142.3 billion. December imports were $10.2 billion less than November imports of $183.9 billion. The US has been running a trade deficit for a couple of decades now, since the Regan era. Overall, Bush hasn't really done much noteworthy. People make him out to have done worse than he has, but I think in the end he's just mediocre. Wow, this thread's was dragged off-topic fast. But it doesn't require a drastic reform, which is the main problem. Hell, for all we know, the treasury is just printing more money comparable to that deficit. If Obama sneezes are you going to create a new thread? After reading the first page I've decided I'm not even going to contribute other than this.Funny you should mention it. I was looking at the news last night, and there was an article about Obama hitting his head on his way into his plane. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 To Range: Yes, I have taken both. I just prefer the nitty-gritty semantics offered by debate. As for my history, I see nothing wrong with it. As for Political Science...eh, too vague. To Quoi: Lighten up, people. We can get fired up over things, but I've never seen anybody here throw personal insults. At least, not any of the regulars. We all have our own opinions, it's our job to try to convince each other out of them, not to make the person feel bad. To Goddess: You make me sad. :( To Flyingjj: Those quantities of methane emission, when compared to the CO2 produced by vehicles, illustrate my point. Learn the metric system >:( You're obviously too narrow-minded to understand any abstract concepts offered by either of those courses, either that or you just didn't pay attention. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Gee... way to make me feel guilty :P I will read them so long as they don't involve politics :P The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoi_Tu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 [hide=]Yes. All of those, I would have to say, are the high points. Though not many of them actually affected me. Oh, and increase military salaries. The GI bill was probably highlight, since I can use my fathers military status to pay for college. The latest on international trade flows: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/interna ... elease.htm The U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, through the Department of Commerce, announced today that total December exports of $133.8 billion and imports of $173.7 billion resulted in a goods and services deficit of $39.9 billion, down from $41.6 billion in November, revised. December exports were $8.5 billion less than November exports of $142.3 billion. December imports were $10.2 billion less than November imports of $183.9 billion. The US has been running a trade deficit for a couple of decades now, since the Regan era. Overall, Bush hasn't really done much noteworthy. People make him out to have done worse than he has, but I think in the end he's just mediocre. Wow, this thread's was dragged off-topic fast.[/hide] But it doesn't require a drastic reform, which is the main problem. Hell, for all we know, the treasury is just printing more money comparable to that deficit. It was a major issue when it first became noticeable in the late 80s, but we've had it for so long now, we're not sure if it is really too much of an issue. It would still be nice to sell more and buy less abroad to equal out our trade, but in the mean time no great negative effects that we've observed. raven, who's getting fired up? Especially with you calling me a commie you fascist pig. Beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Haha "regulars" and he has what, 394 posts? "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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