Bestiary Guide Update Suggestion

[Sabrisi]

Im new to Runescape and have been reading this guide for the game for about a week. One thing I noticed is on the bestiary guide is that there are no real suggestions as to what to wear when going to kill the boss. There are some suggestions if the beast is magical that dragon hide is the best option to wear for protection but for melee beasts it doesnt give a clue as to the beasts attack style. I've been leveling my combat while doing slayer and I've noticed that while wearing my rune armor and kite shield there are many mobs that damage me more often then others. The slayer masters often tell you to watch the monsters attack style and I've observed some races wielding different weapons and even shields.

 

 

 

What I think would be great for this site to incorporate into the bestiary guide is the beasts attack style. Mention attack styles for the different weapons they wield also. I want to know before I trek off all over Runescape for my next slayer task is do I need a rune chain body with square shield or even a mixture for my troll task who slashes and crushes and even has some that carries shields and are harder to kill.

[Fedorca99]

Runescape Bugs and Suggestions is for bugs and suggestions that directly relate to the game itself. For corrections and ideas for the website, you should put it in this forum. I moved this over here for you. :)

[SportsGuy]

The problem I would forsee (and I already see it in Monster Hunting guides) is that not all equipment is available to all players.

 

 

 

I think there was discussion in the past about including what type of attack styles monsters had (as you mentioned, whether it's crush or slash or whatever) and that would be great and if that's all you were suggesting, then I support that.

 

 

 

I hate the way suggested set-ups are done here (and some of the crew might remember me expressing as much from my trainee days) because they assume certain things about the players using the guides. That's another point for another thread, I suppose...

[Tim]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]SportsGuy, they use those examples as a "Standard". meaning there's usually a downgradable version to the armor/weapon. With slayer there are monsters that deal physical attacks, but the attribute is magic. If your getting beaten around by trolls, its proberly your defence level. at 55 trolls can easily crack some hefty hits on you. Anyway, sorry ot hi-jack the thread but from my view it looks sorta like a help and advice; but you know me, I never can tell. I'm guessing he means have a hint(s) for how to take on certain monsters etc, like armor, weapon types etc.[/hide]

[SportsGuy]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

SportsGuy, they use those examples as a "Standard". meaning there's usually a downgradable version to the armor/weapon. With slayer there are monsters that deal physical attacks, but the attribute is magic. If your getting beaten around by trolls, its proberly your defence level. at 55 trolls can easily crack some hefty hits on you. Anyway, sorry ot hi-jack the thread but from my view it looks sorta like a help and advice; but you know me, I never can tell. I'm guessing he means have a hint(s) for how to take on certain monsters etc, like armor, weapon types etc.

 

 

 

There's downgradeable and there's upgradeable, but usually the "standard" is ridiculous. In MY opinion, no barrows or stuff like fury ammys should be considered "standard" set-ups. It should be stuff that's reasonable to assume a player could collect on their own without a ton of money.

 

 

 

I also think that distinctions should be made between beginner guides for hunting monsters and then advanced set-ups for people looking to camp or whatever.

 

 

 

When I had a metal dragon task for the first time, I looked on the site for a guide, but instead found something for advanced players. The suggested set-ups were laughably impossible in my opinion.

 

 

 

To me, I think those monster guides should instead START with "hey, this is your first time" and then progress to have the advanced tactics (which usually include the player's own experiences anyway) added on as the afterthought...instead of the other way around.

 

 

 

There are tons of guides out there made by players, but Tip.It seems to like to give elitist endorsements to guides written by certain players. I do know how it works.

 

 

 

Instead, I think the focus should be on how to get by with the absolute minimum...with players getting more confident by being able to wear and use better gear and have better stats.

 

 

 

I'm in the minority, I'd imagine...but I really think I'm right on that point.[/hide]

[Rien]

I suppose I'll weigh in on this issue, and, hopefully, I'll be able to make some clarifications. :)

 

 

 

One thing I noticed is on the bestiary guide is that there are no real suggestions as to what to wear when going to kill the boss. There are some suggestions if the beast is magical that dragon hide is the best option to wear for protection but for melee beasts it doesnt give a clue as to the beasts attack style.

For regular monsters listed in the bestiary, we'll generally mention the recommended gear/attack style and strategy to use, but only if the monsters in question deviate from the norm in some way (I know this is similar to what you said). The majority of monsters present in RS only have a melee-style attack, so we won't write this into the bestiary entry of every monster this applies to. If, however, a monster uses varying forms of attacks, you can be sure that we'll include the relevant information in the notes section of that particular entry; basically, you should assume that every monster listed in the bestiary will only use melee attacks (and so melee armour should be worn in combat) unless otherwise stated. The Bloodveld entry is a prime example of this; since bloodvelds use a mage-based melee attack, we mention this and recommend equipping dragonhide armour while fighting them. We also name the appropriate protection prayer to use and make a reference to the existence of nearby safe-spots for convenience.

 

 

 

As for the purely melee monsters, we leave it to our users to determine what armours and weapons they should bring to the fight. We list each monster's combat level, health points, and location in the bestiary entries, so it's a judgement call for players on whether or not they should attempt to fight a certain monster based on the information provided (hopefully, players should realize that fighting high-level monsters at a low combat level themselves is foolish). In general, though, it always pays to go prepared, regardless; if you're not sure how you'll fare against a monster, bring the best gear you're willing to lose in addition to food and a one-click teleport.

 

 

 

The slayer masters often tell you to watch the monsters attack style and I've observed some races wielding different weapons and even shields.

It's true that many monsters appear to use particular melee attack styles (e.g. slash, stab, crush), but unless we can find definitive proof and we deem it to be important information, we won't speculate and potentially mislead our users by including the information. Appearances can be deceiving, so we never trust in common sense in regard to this issue unless Jagex confirms our suspicions (truly a rare occurence). :P

 

 

 

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

The problem I would forsee (and I already see it in Monster Hunting guides) is that not all equipment is available to all players.

I'd say that Monster Hunting isn't suitable for all players, so we shouldn't necessarily be constrained to listing equipment available to everyone. We realize that not everyone can afford/use the best armours and weapons in the game, so we try to be reasonable. I suppose it comes down to a matter of opinion, but I think gear such as the barrows armours is a fair standard to reference; they're relatively cheap in relation their effectiveness, and they only have middling requirements to equip. I can agree with you on showing other (extraneous, imo) items such a furies and the like, but it's not as if we don't list lower-level gear in addition to the upper-level stuff. Here's an example. The minimum gear mentioned here includes black dragonhide armour and a dragon longsword; really, using anything much worse than these against the KBD wouldn't be worth the risk or the trouble, but again, it comes down to a matter of opinion. I believe most of the players who read our monster hunting guides are looking to optimize their performance while monster hunting (rather than just barely scrape by with minimal supplies), so that's probably why our guide writers fashion the guides the way they do.

 

-----

 

 

 

I'm open to everyone's thoughts, whatever their views. Changes can be made to these guides, if necessary, so don't be afraid to speak your mind. Naming specific examples of problematic bestiary entries/mh'ing guides would be most helpful, as we're always looking to improve our material. 'Cheers. :[/hide]

[SportsGuy]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

I'd say that Monster Hunting isn't suitable for all players, so we shouldn't necessarily be constrained to listing equipment available to everyone. We realize that not everyone can afford/use the best armours and weapons in the game, so we try to be reasonable. I suppose it comes down to a matter of opinion, but I think gear such as the barrows armours is a fair standard to reference; they're relatively cheap in relation their effectiveness, and they only have middling requirements to equip.

 

 

 

I don't think so. I think most people that already hunt monsters are not going to care what Tip.It has to say about fighting them. Once they get to that point, they develop their own tips and tricks. Look at the Archive of Wisdom. There are tons of guides in beginning or other stages that tell people how to kill monsters based on personal experiences.

 

 

 

On the contrary, most people who have never fought a monster before are going to look for a guide...not to optimize their stays, but to find out how to safely take on the monster. It only took me one or two trips to Mithril Dragons to feel safe...and develop my own methods of attacking. In fact, I had to go outside of Tip.It to find a beginners guide and reasonable set-ups that don't include barrows equipment.

 

 

 

Barrows are the most over-rated gear in the game. They need to be recharged (and I don't care what people think, but I'm not paying every 15 hours to use equipment...at any price). Perhaps people used the equipment in great numbers a few years ago, but I see many more people doing without it when I'm playing. There certainly are people out there that use it and I wouldn't suggest cutting out mentions of it, but I really believe that the mentions should include something about a minimum set-up and then "players using Barrows equipment would beneift from using full Guthans" or something.

 

 

 

Tip.It is unfortunately elitist in their approaches...it wasn't long ago before 1M Coins was an unreachable and unthinkable amount for me. Still, I was able to take on strong monsters with my combat level...and only after feeling comfortable about venturing out to them did I realize that.

 

 

 

I can agree with you on showing other (extraneous, imo) items such a furies and the like, but it's not as if we don't list lower-level gear in addition to the upper-level stuff. Here's an example. The minimum gear mentioned here includes black dragonhide armour and a dragon longsword; really, using anything much worse than these against the KBD wouldn't be worth the risk or the trouble, but again, it comes down to a matter of opinion. I believe most of the players who read our monster hunting guides are looking to optimize their performance while monster hunting (rather than just barely scrape by with minimal supplies), so that's probably why our guide writers fashion the guides the way they do.

 

 

 

Again, I don't know what that belief is based on. I know plenty of people that NEVER use the guides and I'm trying to explain one of the reasons I don't use the ones on Tip.It. Optimizing performance is very subjective and I would agree that writing a guide for every single person's style would be unwise for Tip.It to attempt.

 

 

 

About the KBD, it's not that using lesser items wouldn't be worth the risk...in fact, using the lowest possible gear IS the whole point...getting the most out of the trip by lowering the risk. If I was to use any guide, I'd have to guess if using black dragonhide is going to get me killed when it lists something better.It's also interesting that you bring up the KBD guide (I've seen it)...perhaps your fellow crew members can tell you why.

 

 

 

When I'm reading a guide, I'm worried about fighting the monster. AT THE VERY LEAST, there is a substantial number of players just like me who don't use the guides to maximize their trips, as you have guessed, so you're not catering to those people and perhaps a new section of guides is needed. Not only that, but even some people that DO use Barrows frequently sometimes don't think it's necessary to use it all the time...and THAT would be another reason to not use them as a base. As I mentioned, I've read plenty of other guides that are more useful, but being the site I've been part of the longest, I do come back, hoping this site will get better. Perhaps some crew members who have been here longer than you understand that.[/hide]

[pokemama]

Surprisingly, we actually have this in the works. We have a hidden field to populate. The problem is simply getting them all assigned, lol.

 

 

 

We went ahead and made possible the following selections:

 

• [*:1p7slaos]Melee
   
  [*:1p7slaos]Magic
   
  [*:1p7slaos]Ranged
   
  [*:1p7slaos]Melee+Magic
   
  [*:1p7slaos]Melee+Ranged
   
  [*:1p7slaos]Magic+Ranged
   
  [*:1p7slaos]All Three
   
  [*:1p7slaos]Mage-based Melee

 

 

 

We can add more if something else is identified.

 

 

 

Again, the problem is just making the time to identify which each is, and then getting it entered into our database.

 

 

 

If you would like to volunteer to help, please post a list. The only requirement is that it be in some sort of order, not just random ones. So you can claim a category ahead of time, but ... don't take more than 50 or so, and only claim it if you will have it finished within 24 hours.

 

 

 

Here's a sample of what we have done (yeah, some are random :oops:):

 

Corporeal Beast	all 3

TzTok-Jad	all 3

Balance Elemental			all 3

Tormented Demon	all 3

Mithril Dragon	all 3

Giant Roc	all 3



Dagannoth Prime	mage

Phoenix	mage



Mutated Bloodveld	mage-based melee

Growler	magic



Ket-Zek	magic+melee

The Inadequacy	magic+melee

Jungle Demon	magic+melee

Dark Beast	poke		magic+melee



Dagannoth Rex	melee

Bork	poke		melee

Black Demon	melee

Monkey Guard -1-	melee

Monkey Guard -2-	melee

Starlight	melee



Known for combo:

Sea Troll Queen	melee+magic

Wild Jade Vine	melee+magic

Kamil	poke		melee+magic

Agrith-Na-Na	melee+magic



Known for combo:

Arrg	melee+range

Giant Sea Snake	melee+range

Dessous	melee+range



Group - Revenants:

Revenant Dragon			all 3

Revenant Knight			all 3

Revenant Dark Beast		all 3

Revenant Ork			all 3

Revenant Demon			all 3

Revenant Hellhound		all 3

Revenant Cyclops			all 3

Revenant Werewolf		all 3

Revenant Vampire			all 3

Revenant Hobgoblin		all 3

Revenant Pyrefiend		all 3

Revenant Icefiend		all 3

Revenant Goblin -4-		all 3

Revenant Goblin -3-		all 3

Revenant Goblin -2-		all 3

Revenant Goblin			all 3

Revenant Imp			all 3



Known to range:

Monstrous Cave Crawler	range

Aviansie -4-	range

High Priest of Scabaras -3-	range

Bree	range

Giant Snail -2-	range

Dagannoth Supreme	ranged





Our F2P crewbie has done all of the F2P monsters.

[Rien]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

On the contrary, most people who have never fought a monster before are going to look for a guide...not to optimize their stays, but to find out how to safely take on the monster.

About the KBD, it's not that using lesser items wouldn't be worth the risk...in fact, using the lowest possible gear IS the whole point...getting the most out of the trip by lowering the risk.

We obviously view "safety" differently, then. I can understand substituting certain pieces of expensive gear for other, relatively inexpensive (albeit, less-effective) items; that's basic, precautionary harm-mitigation. However, I believe there's a point at which this actually becomes dangerous to practice when done excessively. This can be seen in my earlier KBD example, where black dragonhide armour and a d long are the lowest-level items listed under "recommended items." Does it mean, because they are the lowest listed, that equipping gear of even lesser value and utility will automatically mean a likely death? I'd say it doesn't; it simply means that it could be dangerous to use anything less, so we don't feel comfortable listing, say, green dragonhide armour and a rune scimitar. I'm sure there are enterprising players who may be able to take on the KBD or other boss monsters with sub-par equipment, but, because this isn't the case with the majority of players, we feel the need to draw the line somewhere (in the above case, at black d'hide and dragon weapons). I honestly don't understand how you've come to decide that we're being "elitist" by doing so; I see it as being cautious. :|

 

 

 

Barrows are the most over-rated gear in the game. They need to be recharged (and I don't care what people think, but I'm not paying every 15 hours to use equipment...at any price).

We'll have to agree to disagree here. The barrow sets are fairly cheap to repair at a POH, and they can make a significant, positive difference when used at boss monsters over time. Needless to say, if a player only uses their sets at boss monsters and leaves something like a rune set for everyday monsters, then the cost of repairs practically becomes negligable, as 15 hours of combat at any boss monster will generally yield a large profit which will easily cover the costs plus some.

 

 

 

There certainly are people out there that use it and I wouldn't suggest cutting out mentions of it, but I really believe that the mentions should include something about a minimum set-up and then "players using Barrows equipment would beneift from using full Guthans" or something.

I agree with this. Barrow sets, and, in particular, Guthan's, should never be mentioned as part of a minimum set-up. If you can point me to which guide(s) do this, I'll be happy to have them corrected. That does cross the line, and I wouldn't want for anyone to get the wrong impression.[/hide]

[essiw]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

 

Barrows are the most over-rated gear in the game. They need to be recharged (and I don't care what people think, but I'm not paying every 15 hours to use equipment...at any price).

We'll have to agree to disagree here. The barrow sets are fairly cheap to repair at a POH, and they can make a significant, positive difference when used at boss monsters over time. Needless to say, if a player only uses their sets at boss monsters and leaves something like a rune set for everyday monsters, then the cost of repairs practically becomes negligable, as 15 hours of combat at any boss monster will generally yield a large profit which will easily cover the costs plus some.

 

 

I agree with sportsguy, There are people who are like sportsguy and me and don't like to buy barrows (for example I don't think in profits per time but profits per task, I also don't have a cannon), I think you should use an alternative too (so still keep the barrows as a standard but do the rune/dragon/black dhide too). It is not about what the best option is, players will always do other things. I know you do it already in much guides but for example the mithril dragon guide I had to think of my own armour. Also the mithril dragon guide is especially a problem here since not only barrows but also a fury, dragon boots, fire cape, dragonfire shield, infinity boots and barrows gloves. Not everyone has the money for those things and not everyone is able to wear barrows gloves.

 

The easiest way to solve this is to do what has been done with the weapon at the melee section (put an arrow between it)

 

 

 

Like this:

 

Helmet: Helm of Neitiznot

 

Amulet: Amulet of Fury > Ammy of glory

 

Body: Karil's Top > dragon chainbody -> rune platebody

 

Legs: Karil's Skirt > dragon platelegs/plateskirt -> rune platelegs/plateskirt

 

Weapon: Leaf-bladed sword > Abyssal Whip

 

Shield: Dragonfire Shield > anti dragon shield

 

Cape: Fire Cape > skill cape (t) > skill cape/obby cape

 

Boots: Dragon Boots > rune boots

 

Gloves: Barrows > Dragon > Rune > Addy > Mith

 

 

 

Also there is recommended a dragon mace, but in the inventory there is a dds, the same for the ectophial you could name up more then the extophial, liek tiny elf crystal and tablets[/hide]

[SportsGuy]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

We obviously view "safety" differently, then. I can understand substituting certain pieces of expensive gear for other, relatively inexpensive (albeit, less-effective) items; that's basic, precautionary harm-mitigation. However, I believe there's a point at which this actually becomes dangerous to practice when done excessively.

 

 

 

I don't see how. You'll either die with low valued items or you'll survive. Perhaps it's on the subject of "danger" that we differ opinions. I don't mind "dying" if I don't lose my items. I'd much rather die and lose black dragonhide than lose blessed d'hide or dragon metal armour or GWD armour.

 

 

 

This can be seen in my earlier KBD example, where black dragonhide armour and a d long are the lowest-level items listed under "recommended items." Does it mean, because they are the lowest listed, that equipping gear of even lesser value and utility will automatically mean a likely death? I'd say it doesn't; it simply means that it could be dangerous to use anything less, so we don't feel comfortable listing, say, green dragonhide armour and a rune scimitar. I'm sure there are enterprising players who may be able to take on the KBD or other boss monsters with sub-par equipment, but, because this isn't the case with the majority of players, we feel the need to draw the line somewhere (in the above case, at black d'hide and dragon weapons).

 

 

 

I might agree with parts of your statement. There must be a line drawn, but similar to guides with level suggestions, the line must be both reasonable and take other factors into account. More on that later on.

 

 

 

I honestly don't understand how you've come to decide that we're being "elitist" by doing so; I see it as being cautious.

 

 

 

Well, OF COURSE, you wouldn't. Despite only being a crew member for a short time (and I would argue that it is indeed because you haven't been crew for a long period of time yet), you wouldn't be able to objectively see how elitist such practices can be. I think saying any more on the subject is pointless.

 

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. The barrow sets are fairly cheap to repair at a POH, and they can make a significant, positive difference when used at boss monsters over time. Needless to say, if a player only uses their sets at boss monsters and leaves something like a rune set for everyday monsters, then the cost of repairs practically becomes negligable, as 15 hours of combat at any boss monster will generally yield a large profit which will easily cover the costs plus some.

 

 

 

Ah, one of my least favorite arguments. Barrows cost money, period. Having used it for a short time, I noticed that it indeed cost me a lot more than using non-degradable armour. Why? Because unlike most players, I pick up everything. I bury regular bones. I pick up 10-15 Coin drops. I high alch steel daggers and iron kiteshields. To "effectively" use Barrows, one would need to use it somewhere the benefits outweigh the cost. I don't know of any place that it would be the case for a player like me. I hated using the gear and as you have seen, I'm not alone. I now think that there should at the very least be two sets of recommendations on each guide. One with barrows gear, and one for normal set-ups.

 

 

 

I agree with this. Barrow sets, and, in particular, Guthan's, should never be mentioned as part of a minimum set-up. If you can point me to which guide(s) do this, I'll be happy to have them corrected. That does cross the line, and I wouldn't want for anyone to get the wrong impression.

 

 

 

You have access to the guides. I think every set-up in every guide should be changed. In some cases, set-ups should simply be eliminated in favor of suggesting types of attack to defend against or types of defense to attack against.[/hide]

[essiw]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]I think we are heading off from the subject, the subject was not about the monster hunter guides, or whether barrows is better or not is an opinion which could be better discussed somewhere else. SG I don't like that you accuse someone or multiple people for being elitists, everyone is trying his best to do what they can do for this site.

 

Lets go back to the main subject.[/hide]

[SportsGuy]

[hide=hidden by crew as off-topic no offence]

I think we are heading off from the subject, the subject was not about the monster hunter guides, or whether barrows is better or not is an opinion which could be better discussed somewhere else. SG I don't like that you accuse someone or multiple people for being elitists, everyone is trying his best to do what they can do for this site.

 

Lets go back to the main subject.

 

 

 

I'm torn, because on the one-hand I agree that we're getting off track, but on the other...the barrows discussion pertains to set-ups which pertains to the subject matter and as for elitism...what else can it be called? I didn't single anyone out, but there has to be some format for describing something I don't like. No one is trying for brownie points here...I've seen how this site works and I called it like I saw it. I don't know that I appreciate the inference or the attempt to invalidate arguments by calling what I'm doing improper. I agree, singling people out would be rarely appropriate, but I have to be able to make a point.

 

 

 

Maybe a mod can lock this topic before it gets out of hand.[/hide]

[pokemama]

I have hidden most of the above posts as being off-topic. The important issues are:

 

 

 

1. monster attack styles are being worked on for the Bestiary.

 

 

 

2. Contributions from users to nail down these styles are welcome. Please start a separate post (preferably in the Bestiary subforum) if you'd like to help, that would be superb.

 

 

 

3. For the record (off topic), I believe that monster hunting guides are meant for people who need details. If I find such a guide intimidating, that gives me a clue that I'm not at the level to be hunting this monster.

 

 

 

4. Again off-topic, the setups in our monster hunting guides should *always* include alternatives in a list below the pictured setup. If you find a specific guide that does NOT do this, or should be updated due to better equipment being available ... please make a separate post and we will get our Monster Hunting crewbie to handle it ASAP. Changes may also include familiars helpful when fighting that specific monster.

 

 

 

I do appreciate the serious thoughtfulness that has gone into each of the posts here.

 

 

 

However, I am locking this topic since the original poster's issue has been addressed. If you would like to further "discuss" this issue, as opposed to giving concrete contributions on individual guides so that we can make changes, please post in the Website Discussions forum.