Cynics are by their own definitions right. They just put negative connotations on well-known facts.

 

It can be logically proven.

Anything I, you, or anyone else for that matter does, has (at times along with none egoistical reasons) (an) egoistical reason(s) behind it.

 

I understand what you're saying but you can apply that to literally anything, infinitely and reducibly.

 

But, I like to believe some people sometimes are not so driven by self -- and so like many others:

 

I do not eat at a fancy restaurant soley to take a good [cabbage] the next day. :thumbup:

 

I'll try to give an example. A painter paints a beautiful picture in the hope that he will sell it for a large sum of money. The second painter paints a beautiful picture because he wants to improve himself and his skills. A third painter paints a stunning landscape because he admires the scenery around him and wishes to preserve that moment.

 

The first two are being fuelled by "egotistical" reasons, but wouldn't you say the second is better than the first ? But, I'm sure you agree that the third is the only reason why painters must paint masterpieces, why composers must compose symphonies and the rest of us should exist at all. Yes ?

 

It is not because we are invited to, but we are compelled to.

 

The point still stands. Whether your actions are more self-serving or less self-serving, the bottom line is- They're self-serving. Any action done by person X must be self serving to X, and the measure plays only a tiny role.

 

You clearly didn't read about the third painter.

 

What I'm saying now, is that even if there is no part of ego or self involved, people like you will try to find something.

 

Clearly painter 3 only painted it for so and so reason.

 

When you boil it down that much, this percieved egotism becomes a justification or reasoning of person X, that will look like self-servience but is really not.

 

Tell me what motive the third painter had.

 

I did read about the third painter.

 

The mere fact that the painter painted something because he likes the view, immediately points that there is a self-serving cause here. I thought it was obvious which is why I didn't bother commenting on that.

 

 

 

"People like you"? Lol, that's pure logic, nothing else to it. If by people like me you mean those who would rather use their logic, then alright.

I'd rather not be one of those who simply refuse to believe human beings are such egoistical beings, only because it doesn't sound too good.

 

 

 

I repeat:

Anything done by anyone has atleast 1 self-serving cause, and on most cases more than 1.

I'd rather not be one of those who simply refuse to believe human beings are such egoistical beings, only because it doesn't sound too good.

 

I don't even see a negative connotation in there. I'm quite happy that I'm my own butler. Who else would know what I wanted better than myself? :P

 

You clearly didn't read about the third painter.

 

What I'm saying now, is that even if there is no part of ego or self involved, people like you will try to find something.

 

Clearly painter 3 only painted it for so and so reason.

 

When you boil it down that much, this percieved egotism becomes a justification or reasoning of person X, that will look like self-servience but is really not.

 

Tell me what motive the third painter had.

 

It satisfies him to know that he preserved a beautiful landscape. He is painting to reach that perceived satisfaction. Even though the intentions might not directly involve himself (like in the cases where he's making money or bettering himself), the fact that he has an intention at all is what points to the psychological egoism.

 

Just like a soldier who jumps on a live grenade to save his men - knowing that he saved his men is his satisfaction.

The fact you can find anything to have a self-serving consequence doesn't mean that it is automatically the moving reason behind a deed. :???:

The fact you can find anything to have a self-serving consequence doesn't mean that it is automatically the moving reason behind a deed. :???:

 

Not every consequence is going to be "self-serving" - when you take into account mistakes and whatnot. However, your perceived expectation of the result is the driving force behind the deed.

The fact you can find anything to have a self-serving consequence doesn't mean that it is automatically the moving reason behind a deed. :???:

 

 

Not 'the', 'a'.

I don't see how it's a bad thing to be self-serving. Are there really other options ... ?

If we weren't self serving we wouldn't be doing anywhere near as good as we are.

There's nothing 'wrong' with it. Some just don't like the sound of it, and thus claim to know and believe the 'other' truth.

I don't see how it's a bad thing to be self-serving. Are there really other options ... ?

I guess I just don't like how some people jump from that to "humans are just egoistical savages" and "I have lost all faith in humanity" or even some Ayn Rand'esque philosophy.

You can say humans are egotistical in the same way you can say they're animals. It's in the nuances. We fit into the denotation of "animal", but not the connotation--in general, we aren't wild, "cruel", etc... It's not a bad thing.

I don't see how it's a bad thing to be self-serving. Are there really other options ... ?

I guess I just don't like how some people jump from that to "humans are just egoistical savages" and "I have lost all faith in humanity" or even some Ayn Rand'esque philosophy.

Me either. They're practically saying THEY'RE pieces of crap too. But *they're* the special good ones. :roll:

Not at all. Evolution's goal is to evolve. Change without reason. Completely illogical and unreasonable - almost religious.

 

Which is why I totally understand some people's clutching to evolution as a sort of dogma. Although when they don't realize this, I am curious.

 

You're a bad troll.

@OP

 

I disagree with the satisfaction theory you made. I think the satisfying part that serves yourself is the making of the legacy. Sorry, that is the cleanest way I can present that.