Obama Extends Patriot Act

[SeanyTheSailor]

I use Iranians as an example because at the moment it is probably the most prevalent. a_local_guy not to be insulting but I think this is the first time ever that I think you've sounded uninformed almost to the point ignorance. They hated us long before we went over there. And I assure you we are not occupying Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. etc. They hated us for supporting Israel (which I actually kind of agree with them on but we wont get into that). And Vulxai have you heard or seen the nutcase that is Ahmedenijad? He said that he and I quote "Want to wipe Israel off the map.". Like I said earlier i believe that the whole Israel/Palestine situation is possibly the biggest [bleep]up since the world allowed Hitler to have the Rhineland. I'm sorry that I don't want to hear your 9/11 theories I take 9/11 at face value and conspiracy theorists are one type of people who get me very heated up very fast, when it first happened i thought no one would spin it because it was so catastrophic and I thought hallowed.... oh young 321ownage how you were wrong. I respect your opinion but I'm sorry I don't want to know it. Right now I'm going to become extremely disorganized and write things as they come. How can you say we are FORCING our ideology on them? We do not hold guns to their heads and say believe this! We can give them these ideas and they can choose to act on them or not. Also Vulxai we aren't at war with Iran maybe you meant Iraq?(Not trying to sound like a jerk I just don't know if you miss-typed or what). Are we forcing democracy on them? I guess yeah you could probably say we are now that I think about it but guess what as soon as we leave if they don't like/want it they will overthrow it. Its that simple. Also I'd like to take a huge step back and say to the guy who posted "Don't act like a Muslim" that was a terrible joke and probably the worst thing you could have said. And you know I would be more than happy to live and let live you know? But these EXTREMISTS attacked us, so now they are whining because we are over there, if they had stopped/prevented these terrorist groups from coming up in the first place we wouldn't be there right now would we? It just seems to me like the American people don't even want America to be great anymore. Everything is our fault, global warming, we have to feed these starving children, its our fault these people hate us, what worldwide problem isn't somehow pinned on us?!?! And the American people buy into it! look guys I may never convince you, and you may now think I'm just a screaming Muslim hater. But please at least go away with this, there are two sides to every story and everyone has an agenda, and all too often we just take the first side that is given to us.

 

Edit: We should also probably get back on the original subject, we kinda stole this thread.

[Vulxai]

I use Iranians as an example because at the moment it is probably the most prevalent. a_local_guy not to be insulting but I think this is the first time ever that I think you've sounded uninformed almost to the point ignorance. They hated us long before we went over there. And I assure you we are not occupying Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. etc. They hated us for supporting Israel (which I actually kind of agree with them on but we wont get into that). And Vulxai have you heard or seen the nutcase that is Ahmedenijad? He said that he and I quote "Want to wipe Israel off the map.". Like I said earlier i believe that the whole Israel/Palestine situation is possibly the biggest [bleep]up since the world allowed Hitler to have the Rhineland. I'm sorry that I don't want to hear your 9/11 theories I take 9/11 at face value and conspiracy theorists are one type of people who get me very heated up very fast, when it first happened i thought no one would spin it because it was so catastrophic and I thought hallowed.... oh young 321ownage how you were wrong. I respect your opinion but I'm sorry I don't want to know it. Right now I'm going to become extremely disorganized and write things as they come. How can you say we are FORCING our ideology on them? We do not hold guns to their heads and say believe this! We can give them these ideas and they can choose to act on them or not. Also Vulxai we aren't at war with Iran maybe you meant Iraq?(Not trying to sound like a jerk I just don't know if you miss-typed or what). Are we forcing democracy on them? I guess yeah you could probably say we are now that I think about it but guess what as soon as we leave if they don't like/want it they will overthrow it. Its that simple. Also I'd like to take a huge step back and say to the guy who posted "Don't act like a Muslim" that was a terrible joke and probably the worst thing you could have said. And you know I would be more than happy to live and let live you know? But these EXTREMISTS attacked us, so now they are whining because we are over there, if they had stopped/prevented these terrorist groups from coming up in the first place we wouldn't be there right now would we? It just seems to me like the American people don't even want America to be great anymore. Everything is our fault, global warming, we have to feed these starving children, its our fault these people hate us, what worldwide problem isn't somehow pinned on us?!?! And the American people buy into it! look guys I may never convince you, and you may now think I'm just a screaming Muslim hater. But please at least go away with this, there are two sides to every story and everyone has an agenda, and all too often we just take the first side that is given to us.

 

Edit: We should also probably get back on the original subject, we kinda stole this thread.

 

For some reason my mind processed it as Iraq, but wrote it as Iran and Iranians, that was my bad, and I admit that. That was quite an interesting read, that's what I love about debates, people who put thought into some posts. I agree, we should get back to topic.

[Furah]

321, I'm calling troll.

[Alg]

Because this would be way too long without the spoiler tags...

 

 

I use Iranians as an example because at the moment it is probably the most prevalent. a_local_guy not to be insulting but I think this is the first time ever that I think you've sounded uninformed almost to the point ignorance. They hated us long before we went over there. And I assure you we are not occupying Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. etc. They hated us for supporting Israel (which I actually kind of agree with them on but we wont get into that). And Vulxai have you heard or seen the nutcase that is Ahmedenijad? He said that he and I quote "Want to wipe Israel off the map.". Like I said earlier i believe that the whole Israel/Palestine situation is possibly the biggest [bleep]up since the world allowed Hitler to have the Rhineland. I'm sorry that I don't want to hear your 9/11 theories I take 9/11 at face value and conspiracy theorists are one type of people who get me very heated up very fast, when it first happened i thought no one would spin it because it was so catastrophic and I thought hallowed.... oh young 321ownage how you were wrong. I respect your opinion but I'm sorry I don't want to know it. Right now I'm going to become extremely disorganized and write things as they come. How can you say we are FORCING our ideology on them? We do not hold guns to their heads and say believe this! We can give them these ideas and they can choose to act on them or not. Also Vulxai we aren't at war with Iran maybe you meant Iraq?(Not trying to sound like a jerk I just don't know if you miss-typed or what). Are we forcing democracy on them? I guess yeah you could probably say we are now that I think about it but guess what as soon as we leave if they don't like/want it they will overthrow it. Its that simple. Also I'd like to take a huge step back and say to the guy who posted "Don't act like a Muslim" that was a terrible joke and probably the worst thing you could have said. And you know I would be more than happy to live and let live you know? But these EXTREMISTS attacked us, so now they are whining because we are over there, if they had stopped/prevented these terrorist groups from coming up in the first place we wouldn't be there right now would we? It just seems to me like the American people don't even want America to be great anymore. Everything is our fault, global warming, we have to feed these starving children, its our fault these people hate us, what worldwide problem isn't somehow pinned on us?!?! And the American people buy into it! look guys I may never convince you, and you may now think I'm just a screaming Muslim hater. But please at least go away with this, there are two sides to every story and everyone has an agenda, and all too often we just take the first side that is given to us.

 

Edit: We should also probably get back on the original subject, we kinda stole this thread.

 

 

Sorry if I offended you. Though ignorance is often the best way to learn... :razz:

I was just saying that there were bound to be middle of the road civilians there that would have a good reason to hate the US after. Yes, the history goes back further, but for most people it isn't an issue until it affects their lives. And the current war would definitely be affecting some lives...

Though I do agree with the last part, to blame the US for every problem is ignorant of history. Though it probably isn't the first side that we take but the side that is repeated the most aggressively. And the whole "Iraq war is wrong" view is very aggressively promoted where I live :lol:

[SeanyTheSailor]

Because this would be way too long without the spoiler tags...

 

 

I use Iranians as an example because at the moment it is probably the most prevalent. a_local_guy not to be insulting but I think this is the first time ever that I think you've sounded uninformed almost to the point ignorance. They hated us long before we went over there. And I assure you we are not occupying Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. etc. They hated us for supporting Israel (which I actually kind of agree with them on but we wont get into that). And Vulxai have you heard or seen the nutcase that is Ahmedenijad? He said that he and I quote "Want to wipe Israel off the map.". Like I said earlier i believe that the whole Israel/Palestine situation is possibly the biggest [bleep]up since the world allowed Hitler to have the Rhineland. I'm sorry that I don't want to hear your 9/11 theories I take 9/11 at face value and conspiracy theorists are one type of people who get me very heated up very fast, when it first happened i thought no one would spin it because it was so catastrophic and I thought hallowed.... oh young 321ownage how you were wrong. I respect your opinion but I'm sorry I don't want to know it. Right now I'm going to become extremely disorganized and write things as they come. How can you say we are FORCING our ideology on them? We do not hold guns to their heads and say believe this! We can give them these ideas and they can choose to act on them or not. Also Vulxai we aren't at war with Iran maybe you meant Iraq?(Not trying to sound like a jerk I just don't know if you miss-typed or what). Are we forcing democracy on them? I guess yeah you could probably say we are now that I think about it but guess what as soon as we leave if they don't like/want it they will overthrow it. Its that simple. Also I'd like to take a huge step back and say to the guy who posted "Don't act like a Muslim" that was a terrible joke and probably the worst thing you could have said. And you know I would be more than happy to live and let live you know? But these EXTREMISTS attacked us, so now they are whining because we are over there, if they had stopped/prevented these terrorist groups from coming up in the first place we wouldn't be there right now would we? It just seems to me like the American people don't even want America to be great anymore. Everything is our fault, global warming, we have to feed these starving children, its our fault these people hate us, what worldwide problem isn't somehow pinned on us?!?! And the American people buy into it! look guys I may never convince you, and you may now think I'm just a screaming Muslim hater. But please at least go away with this, there are two sides to every story and everyone has an agenda, and all too often we just take the first side that is given to us.

 

Edit: We should also probably get back on the original subject, we kinda stole this thread.

 

 

Sorry if I offended you. Though ignorance is often the best way to learn... :razz:

I was just saying that there were bound to be middle of the road civilians there that would have a good reason to hate the US after. Yes, the history goes back further, but for most people it isn't an issue until it affects their lives. And the current war would definitely be affecting some lives...

Though I do agree with the last part, to blame the US for every problem is ignorant of history. Though it probably isn't the first side that we take but the side that is repeated the most aggressively. And the whole "Iraq war is wrong" view is very aggressively promoted where I live :lol:

you didn't offend me but i can sometimes get heated up. Also again not trying to start something and hopefully the last off topic post but to help prove what a nutter Ahmedenijad is someone made a thread about how he denied 9/11.

[Alg]

It's telling, then, that there were riots and calls of fraud when he was reelected last year.

[The Dark Lord]

321, I'm calling troll.

 

Just because he doesn't agree with you?

[Furah]

321, I'm calling troll.

 

Just because he doesn't agree with you?

No. From the posts he's been making in this thread.

[Alg]

321, I'm calling troll.

 

Just because he doesn't agree with you?

No. From the posts he's been making in this thread.

Conservativism (that is a word, right?) =/= troll.

[Giordano]

I wish the word troll wouldn't be so highly used...it's giving these guys a chance of being smart since they're acting and all.

[Vulxai]

321, I'm calling troll.

 

Just because he doesn't agree with you?

No. From the posts he's been making in this thread.

Conservativism (that is a word, right?) =/= troll.

 

Conservatism? I think that's the word (if it's a word).

[Alg]

Conservatism? I think that's the word (if it's a word).

Whatever the word is, the meaning is hopefully clear enough... :lol:

[SuperS]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

[magekillr]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

 

And US citizens would have the right to fight back and sue.

[fastortoise]

Wasn't Obama like, "THE" presidential candidate most opposed to the Patriot Act and all this Irak nonsense? :ohnoes:

[SeanyTheSailor]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

 

And US citizens would have the right to fight back and sue.

Here I think we do agree, if a mistake WAS MADE (or is) made the victim of said mistake should be able to sue to the full extent of the law.

[Giordano]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

 

And US citizens would have the right to fight back and sue.

Here I think we do agree, if a mistake WAS MADE (or is) made the victim of said mistake should be able to sue to the full extent of the law.

Heh, nothing guarantees that though.

 

"Sorry sir, but, you can't sue for a governmental mistake. Nation security to the President and Senator Smith from Nevada. Please go away."

[magekillr]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

 

And US citizens would have the right to fight back and sue.

Here I think we do agree, if a mistake WAS MADE (or is) made the victim of said mistake should be able to sue to the full extent of the law.

 

That's not the point I was making. The government doesn't have these powers, constitutionally. However, if they were found out to be violating it, citizens who were abused, could sue, including terrorists. Why do you think if police find information regarding a murder illegally that it's tainted evidence? It's because of our protections under the law. That's what the Patriot Act takes away.

[SeanyTheSailor]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

 

And US citizens would have the right to fight back and sue.

Here I think we do agree, if a mistake WAS MADE (or is) made the victim of said mistake should be able to sue to the full extent of the law.

Heh, nothing guarantees that though.

 

"Sorry sir, but, you can't sue for a governmental mistake. Nation security to the President and Senator Smith from Nevada. Please go away."

Even if you can't it doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to. Forgive me if I sound stupid but the rest of your quote I don't understand.

[Giordano]

If he didn't extend it, they would still carry on doing what the Act permits them to do.

 

And US citizens would have the right to fight back and sue.

Here I think we do agree, if a mistake WAS MADE (or is) made the victim of said mistake should be able to sue to the full extent of the law.

Heh, nothing guarantees that though.

 

"Sorry sir, but, you can't sue for a governmental mistake. Nation security to the President and Senator Smith from Nevada. Please go away."

Even if you can't it doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to. Forgive me if I sound stupid but the rest of your quote I don't understand.

Just a joke about some BS excuse the government will tell you so you can't sue. And by cant I mean they won't allow you to.