Prenuptial Agreements

[obfuscator]

Some would say that prenups make sense - the "insurance" comparison amused me.

 

The bottom line is that people don't realize what they are getting into, and don't want to trust the other person.

 

"you don't know what the other person will be like in 20 years". No, you don't....but when you say "I do" what it means is that it doesn't matter. You are commiting to someone for life, no matter what happens.

 

People these days just take marriage too lightly, one more thing you can just forget about if it isn't working for you.

 

If I ever get married, I will absolutely be signing one, even if she makes more money than me or has more of a net-worth. It's not a trust issue, it's protecting yourself.

 

I'm going to quote romy because she put it better than I could:

 

It's not a form of saying "I don't trust you at all", it's a form of saying "I know we love each other right now, and the future seems bright, but we don't know what people will wake up in our bed in 5-20 years, so it's best to make sure that even if these people are not the ones we want them to be, they're not going to give a hard time to each other."

 

This is exactly a form of saying "I don't trust you". It's like saying: "I know we have some mushy infatuation and great sex at the moment, and I'm cool with staying with you as long as that keeps up, but some day you might turn into a huge [bleep] in which case I'll bail on you because I'm not having fun anymore, and so lets sign a prenup so you can't take all my money, because I definitely couldn't live without it".

 

Not really, I've seen too many cases of a loving, trusting couple, becoming each other's nightmare after a few years. A prenup is an insurance in the sense that incase this "accident" happens, the insurance covers for it.

 

Being unwilling to put in the effort to make a relationship isn't an "accident". You either are commited, or you aren't. I've seen people pull relationships from the depths of hell because they know it's the right thing to do, and I've seen people in good relationships give up because they aren't willing to put in the effort, and know they can get away with it.

 

When you say "until death do us part" at the altar, you should mean what you say. That's the bottom line.

[Romy]

Some would say that prenups make sense - the "insurance" comparison amused me.

 

The bottom line is that people don't realize what they are getting into, and don't want to trust the other person.

 

"you don't know what the other person will be like in 20 years". No, you don't....but when you say "I do" what it means is that it doesn't matter. You are commiting to someone for life, no matter what happens.

 

People these days just take marriage too lightly, one more thing you can just forget about if it isn't working for you.

 

If I ever get married, I will absolutely be signing one, even if she makes more money than me or has more of a net-worth. It's not a trust issue, it's protecting yourself.

 

I'm going to quote romy because she put it better than I could:

 

It's not a form of saying "I don't trust you at all", it's a form of saying "I know we love each other right now, and the future seems bright, but we don't know what people will wake up in our bed in 5-20 years, so it's best to make sure that even if these people are not the ones we want them to be, they're not going to give a hard time to each other."

 

This is exactly a form of saying "I don't trust you". It's like saying: "I know we have some mushy infatuation and great sex at the moment, and I'm cool with staying with you as long as that keeps up, but some day you might turn into a huge [bleep] in which case I'll bail on you because I'm not having fun anymore, and so lets sign a prenup so you can't take all my money, because I definitely couldn't live without it".

 

Not really, I've seen too many cases of a loving, trusting couple, becoming each other's nightmare after a few years. A prenup is an insurance in the sense that incase this "accident" happens, the insurance covers for it.

 

Being unwilling to put in the effort to make a relationship isn't an "accident". You either are commited, or you aren't. I've seen people pull relationships from the depths of hell because they know it's the right thing to do, and I've seen people in good relationships give up because they aren't willing to put in the effort, and know they can get away with it.

 

When you say "until death do us part" at the altar, you should mean what you say. That's the bottom line.

 

Sometimes effort is not enough. Sometimes no matter how much you try, 2 people could not fit together under the same roof for too long. That's exactly where a prenup comes to the rescue.

 

 

I'm sure the vast majority of married couples really do mean it when they say "I do", but sometimes meaning it is not enough.

[obfuscator]

Some would say that prenups make sense - the "insurance" comparison amused me.

 

The bottom line is that people don't realize what they are getting into, and don't want to trust the other person.

 

"you don't know what the other person will be like in 20 years". No, you don't....but when you say "I do" what it means is that it doesn't matter. You are commiting to someone for life, no matter what happens.

 

People these days just take marriage too lightly, one more thing you can just forget about if it isn't working for you.

 

If I ever get married, I will absolutely be signing one, even if she makes more money than me or has more of a net-worth. It's not a trust issue, it's protecting yourself.

 

I'm going to quote romy because she put it better than I could:

 

It's not a form of saying "I don't trust you at all", it's a form of saying "I know we love each other right now, and the future seems bright, but we don't know what people will wake up in our bed in 5-20 years, so it's best to make sure that even if these people are not the ones we want them to be, they're not going to give a hard time to each other."

 

This is exactly a form of saying "I don't trust you". It's like saying: "I know we have some mushy infatuation and great sex at the moment, and I'm cool with staying with you as long as that keeps up, but some day you might turn into a huge [bleep] in which case I'll bail on you because I'm not having fun anymore, and so lets sign a prenup so you can't take all my money, because I definitely couldn't live without it".

 

Not really, I've seen too many cases of a loving, trusting couple, becoming each other's nightmare after a few years. A prenup is an insurance in the sense that incase this "accident" happens, the insurance covers for it.

 

Being unwilling to put in the effort to make a relationship isn't an "accident". You either are commited, or you aren't. I've seen people pull relationships from the depths of hell because they know it's the right thing to do, and I've seen people in good relationships give up because they aren't willing to put in the effort, and know they can get away with it.

 

When you say "until death do us part" at the altar, you should mean what you say. That's the bottom line.

 

Sometimes effort is not enough. Sometimes no matter how much you try, 2 people could not fit together under the same roof for too long. That's exactly where a prenup comes to the rescue.

 

 

I'm sure the vast majority of married couples really do mean it when they say "I do", but sometimes meaning it is not enough.

 

I don't beleive that. All the marriages I've seen fail (and I've seen many) have been because someone or both have stopped trying.

 

There is actually a guy in my neighbourhood whose wife had alzheimers, so she forgot him. And every day he went and spent the day with her, just talking to her, reading to her, etc etc. He did this for ten years, until she died. And when she died, he wasn't relieved, he was heartbroken.

 

That's the kind of commitement you need to have to make a marriage work, and the sad fact is that people jump into marriage thinking that their infatuation will be enough, but it won't.

 

True love isn't a warm feeling in your stomach, it's the unconditional, complete gift of your entire person to another.

[Romy]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

[Giordano]

The way to be happy throughout your marriage is to pick the right choice. Make sure you're completely satisfied with him/her. But I'm guessing people would rather have a marriage than not have one at all. Which it shouldn't be like that.

[obfuscator]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

[Romy]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

[Giordano]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

They don't marry. These are some of the doubts that should tell you not to marry this man/woman.

[Romy]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

They don't marry. These are some of the doubts that should tell you not to marry this man/woman.

 

They don't marry, they're already married. Who says you and your partner to life will be the same as they are when you marry? Who says they're not going to be each other's nightmare?

 

 

It sounds great in theory- You should know exactly who you're marrying, and true love is true love, and you can always put enough effort for marriage to work... not that simple in real life.

 

 

(and that's coming from a girl!)

[qeltar]

Being unwilling to put in the effort to make a relationship isn't an "accident". You either are commited, or you aren't.

The real world isn't this cut and dried. Relationships can and do fail despite both partners making an effort.

 

People also change, and sometimes they drift apart.

 

When you say "until death do us part" at the altar, you should mean what you say. That's the bottom line.

This is pretty much a "white lie" and everyone knows it. There are very few people who have no circumstances other than death under which they wouldn't leave a spouse.

 

And that's as it should be. You only get one shot at life, and spending it in a failed marriage is a waste.

 

It's better to be honest than to fool oneself.

[Giordano]

 

 

They don't marry, they're already married. Who says you and your partner to life will be the same as they are when you marry? Who says they're not going to be each other's nightmare?

 

 

It sounds great in theory- You should know exactly who you're marrying, and true love is true love, and you can always put enough effort for marriage to work... not that simple in real life.

 

 

(and that's coming from a girl!)

No, you missed my point. If you belief in this concept that "no one knows how I/him will turn out in 10 years" then don't take the chance and don't marry. If you do take the chance, well, no one to blame but yourself.

 

It does work in real life. May I point out the millions of marriages throughout entirety where divorce wasn't instilled?

[qeltar]

No, you missed my point. If you belief in this concept that "no one knows how I/him will turn out in 10 years" then don't take the chance and don't marry. If you do take the chance, well, no one to blame but yourself.

Simplistic. Are you married by any chance?

 

The idea that nobody should do anything unless they are willing to commit themselves to it for life is absurd. While marriage shouldn't be taken lightly, neither should it be a life sentence.

 

It does work in real life. May I point out the millions of marriages throughout entirety where divorce wasn't instilled?

You can point to lots and lots of misery and suffering, sure.

[obfuscator]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

 

My point is that it shouldn't matter.

 

and @ Qeltar - you assume it's a white lie because so many people get divorced.. I can assure you that there are people who actually mean it. And yes, of course there are some things which make it very difficult to hold a relationship together, but some people don't even make an effort.

 

The reason you date is to try to get to know someone well enough that you will realize you have what it takes to make something work.

[Romy]

 

 

They don't marry, they're already married. Who says you and your partner to life will be the same as they are when you marry? Who says they're not going to be each other's nightmare?

 

 

It sounds great in theory- You should know exactly who you're marrying, and true love is true love, and you can always put enough effort for marriage to work... not that simple in real life.

 

 

(and that's coming from a girl!)

No, you missed my point. If you belief in this concept that "no one knows how I/him will turn out in 10 years" then don't take the chance and don't marry. If you do take the chance, well, no one to blame but yourself.

 

I'd certainly agree if prenup was not an option. It is, so I don't.

 

It does work in real life. May I point out the millions of marriages throughout entirety where divorce wasn't instilled?

I could turn that right back at you and point out the millions of marriages throughout enitety where divorce was instilled.

[Giordano]

No, you missed my point. If you belief in this concept that "no one knows how I/him will turn out in 10 years" then don't take the chance and don't marry. If you do take the chance, well, no one to blame but yourself.

Simplistic. Are you married by any chance?

 

The idea that nobody should do anything unless they are willing to commit themselves to it for life is absurd. While marriage shouldn't be taken lightly, neither should it be a life sentence.

They can do whatever they want if they just date. Girlfriend-boyfriend not even a marriage. I don't care if you get problems there and break up. Hell, I prefer that over divorce later on. If you're so scared about losing your money or your relationship status you shouldn't marry. God damn is it that hard to understand?

 

 

It does work in real life. May I point out the millions of marriages throughout entirety where divorce wasn't instilled?

You can point to lots and lots of misery and suffering, sure.

A lot more neutral to happy couples though.

[Romy]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

 

My point is that it shouldn't matter.

 

and @ Qeltar - you assume it's a white lie because so many people get divorced.. I can assure you that there are people who actually mean it. And yes, of course there are some things which make it very difficult to hold a relationship together, but some people don't even make an effort.

 

The reason you date is to try to get to know someone well enough that you will realize you have what it takes to make something work.

 

What if it doesn't work? Should you just live up with the consequences, or realize that, as Qeltar said, life is too short to be spending it in failed marriage.

[obfuscator]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

 

My point is that it shouldn't matter.

 

and @ Qeltar - you assume it's a white lie because so many people get divorced.. I can assure you that there are people who actually mean it. And yes, of course there are some things which make it very difficult to hold a relationship together, but some people don't even make an effort.

 

The reason you date is to try to get to know someone well enough that you will realize you have what it takes to make something work.

 

What if it doesn't work? Should you just live up with the consequences, or realize that, as Qeltar said, life is too short to be spending it in failed marriage.

 

You made a commitement, for the rest of your life...if that involves making sacrfices to keep your word, then yes it does.

 

But I also refuse to beleive that effort cannot result in a happy relationship. As I've said before, I personally know a couple who were married for 25 years. They drifted apart to the point where she hated him and wouldn't talk to him except to scream at him. He decided to make changes, and after a year of working impossibly hard to try to win her back, he did, and today they are happily married once again.

[Romy]

No, you missed my point. If you belief in this concept that "no one knows how I/him will turn out in 10 years" then don't take the chance and don't marry. If you do take the chance, well, no one to blame but yourself.

Simplistic. Are you married by any chance?

 

The idea that nobody should do anything unless they are willing to commit themselves to it for life is absurd. While marriage shouldn't be taken lightly, neither should it be a life sentence.

They can do whatever they want if they just date. Girlfriend-boyfriend not even a marriage. I don't care if you get problems there and break up. Hell, I prefer that over divorce later on. If you're so scared about losing your money or your relationship status you shouldn't marry. God damn is it that hard to understand?

 

 

It does work in real life. May I point out the millions of marriages throughout entirety where divorce wasn't instilled?

You can point to lots and lots of misery and suffering, sure.

A lot more neutral to happy couples though.

 

Say someone was dumb enough to marry without knowing that's the right thing to do (I'd argue that's NEVER the case, but I don't think we'd agree here), should they just live up with it and suck it up?

[Giordano]

Yeah sure. Everybody should sign prenups and divorce and do whatever the [bleep] they want. Let's just [bleep] everybody and then marry them. [bleep] over our children if we have any and if we don't, give us a great image. "Yeah I was divorced five times. Wanna marry me?" [bleep] yes.

[Romy]

[hide]

I'm sure it sounds great in your head, but let's be practical- not every 2 people could just really be happy together. Sure, if they really wanted to, they could try hard enough and still be together, but that doesn't mean they'll be happy together.

 

 

Again, sometimes effort is not enough, sometimes you just have to know when to give up. And that "sometimes" can be much easier on both sides with a prenup.

Of course not every two people can be happy together, that's the purpose of dating. If you spend time, serious time, and seriously get to know someone, it should be possible to determine whether you could be happy together. I refuse to beleive that if you really make a consciencous choice, and make the effort, that any marriage is just "not meant to work".

 

You don't know what that person will be like in 10 years. You don't know what person YOU will be like in 10 years.

 

My point is that it shouldn't matter.

 

and @ Qeltar - you assume it's a white lie because so many people get divorced.. I can assure you that there are people who actually mean it. And yes, of course there are some things which make it very difficult to hold a relationship together, but some people don't even make an effort.

 

The reason you date is to try to get to know someone well enough that you will realize you have what it takes to make something work.

 

What if it doesn't work? Should you just live up with the consequences, or realize that, as Qeltar said, life is too short to be spending it in failed marriage.

 

You made a commitement, for the rest of your life...if that involves making sacrfices to keep your word, then yes it does.

 

That's what divorce is for- for when you're not ready to hold that commitment. If it was as simple as you suggest, divorce never existed.

 

But I also refuse to beleive that effort cannot result in a happy relationship. As I've said before, I personally know a couple who were married for 25 years. They drifted apart to the point where she hated him and wouldn't talk to him except to scream at him. He decided to make changes, and after a year of working impossibly hard to try to win her back, he did, and today they are happily married once again.

 

That's one example, and even though I'm sure you could give many, many more, I could give many more that support the other side of the equation.

 

Yes, you should take responsibility for the choices you make, but in case it was the wrong decision, and a solution CAN be found- why the hell not?

 

[/hide]

[Romy]

Yeah sure. Everybody should sign prenups and divorce and do whatever the [bleep] they want. Let's just [bleep] everybody and then marry them. [bleep] over our children if we have any and if we don't, give us a great image. "Yeah I was divorced five times. Wanna marry me?" [bleep] yes.

 

That's extremely over-simplistic, and not very mature at that.

 

Your argument makes no sense, and is just a bunch of censored words.

[obfuscator]

 

That's what divorce is for- for when you're not ready to hold that commitment. If it was as simple as you suggest, divorce never existed.

 

That's one example, and even though I'm sure you could give many, many more, I could give many more that support the other side of the equation.

 

Yes, you should take responsibility for the choices you make, but in case it was the wrong decision, and a solution CAN be found- why the hell not?

 

But that's exactly my point...you shouldn't make a commitment until you are really ready for it. Problem with society today is that many many people do it when they aren't ready to.

 

And of course you could give me many more, because the majority of people don't want to make the effort, they don't want to make sacrfices. They want what society tells us to want: Whatever makes us happy, usually stuff, and now, and without thought for anyone else.

 

I guess people just don't beleive in responsibility the same way anymore. I don't see a marriage as having any solution but time and effort - a divorce is an easy way out rather than a genuine fix.

[Romy]

 

That's what divorce is for- for when you're not ready to hold that commitment. If it was as simple as you suggest, divorce never existed.

 

That's one example, and even though I'm sure you could give many, many more, I could give many more that support the other side of the equation.

 

Yes, you should take responsibility for the choices you make, but in case it was the wrong decision, and a solution CAN be found- why the hell not?

 

But that's exactly my point...you shouldn't make a commitment until you are really ready for it.

 

Except I don't think you can ever be 100% certain you're ready for it, again for the reason that you're not going to be the same person you are now, in 10 years. And same goes for your partner.

 

 

 

 

Meh, I doubt we'll agree on this matter. Let's just agree to disagree.

[obfuscator]

Ok lol. I just think that even though you can never be 100% certain, you have a choice - you can chose to make the effort, or not. And that choice is yours alone, no matter who you are.

[Romy]

And again, we wouldn't agree on the absolute result of effort at all times. :roll: