Waterfiends

[i_r_slayer]

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not only does the z spear have many other uses, it seems more effective on them because of its high crush bonus.

This is wrong. Sara Sword is better than the spear, but the difference is small enough that the spear is perfectly acceptable.

 

No, you are wrong. SS has +60 crush, Zspear has +65. The difference is small, but i found i was faster with a zspear, likely because of the crush bonus.

 

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Saradomin_sword

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Zamorakian_spear

 

You might want to compare the strength bonuses. From personal data SS is definitely better but ZS works if you don't want to buy one.

 

The str bonus is marginally lower, which equates to a 10-20 lifepoint lower max hit. The ZS, however, will make you land bigger hits more often than the SS. They are very similar, so whichever you have works, but i stick with the zs because its cheaper, and imo, better for monsters vulnerable to crush.

 

EDIT: Based on tipits calc, i will hit 11 lifepoints less as a max hit using a zs compared to a ss.

 

Attack bonus does not make you hit bigger hits more often, it makes you hit less 0s. Strength bonus does what you described by increasing your mean damage. Simulating what each weapon will help you with is great and all but based on personal testing, I wouldn't bring a ZS for 4k crimsons unless it would somehow mess up my bank.

 

Less 0s = hits more often = bigger hits more often. Higher crush means you hit more accurately while on a crush attack style. We clearly have opposite opinions based on personal experience. Agree to disagree?

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Yeah I think we're about at that point lol.

[Bladewing]

Extensive testing was conducted by a maxed player consistantly potting and praying, same gear...The SS outdamages the ZS by like 1k exp/hour, due to the higher str bonus presumably.

This is what I'm talking about. Not some "my opinion is..." or "my experience is..." with bogus conclusions based on feelings and "how it seemed". Sara Sword has been proven to be faster. The zamorakian spear may have 5 more crush, but you should realize that an increase in 5 crush attack when you're 99 attack, potted to 125, using piety, and already hitting 95% of the time anyway is going to have a much smaller increase in kills/h than even an increase in your max hit by 10 lifepoints.

 

EDIT: If you were hitting 90% of the time with a saradomin sword, you'd hit about 90.3% of the time with a zamorakian spear. You would need to average around 1700 damage per hit (absurd) for the increased accuracy of the spear to outweigh the increase of 5 average damage per hit.

[Obtaurian]

Extensive testing was conducted by a maxed player consistantly potting and praying, same gear...The SS outdamages the ZS by like 1k exp/hour, due to the higher str bonus presumably.

This is what I'm talking about. Not some "my opinion is..." or "my experience is..." with bogus conclusions based on feelings and "how it seemed". Sara Sword has been proven to be faster. The zamorakian spear may have 5 more crush, but you should realize that an increase in 5 crush attack when you're 99 attack, potted to 125, using piety, and already hitting 95% of the time anyway is going to have a much smaller increase in kills/h than even an increase in your max hit by 10 lifepoints.

 

EDIT: If you were hitting 90% of the time with a saradomin sword, you'd hit about 90.3% of the time with a zamorakian spear. You would need to average around 1700 damage per hit (absurd) for the increased accuracy of the spear to outweigh the increase of 5 average damage per hit.

 

This, and I can confirm that the Saradomin is better than a ZS against fiends by way of my own testing (slayer).

[L0rdAki]

Extensive testing was conducted by a maxed player consistantly potting and praying, same gear...The SS outdamages the ZS by like 1k exp/hour, due to the higher str bonus presumably.

This is what I'm talking about. Not some "my opinion is..." or "my experience is..." with bogus conclusions based on feelings and "how it seemed". Sara Sword has been proven to be faster. The zamorakian spear may have 5 more crush, but you should realize that an increase in 5 crush attack when you're 99 attack, potted to 125, using piety, and already hitting 95% of the time anyway is going to have a much smaller increase in kills/h than even an increase in your max hit by 10 lifepoints.

 

EDIT: If you were hitting 90% of the time with a saradomin sword, you'd hit about 90.3% of the time with a zamorakian spear. You would need to average around 1700 damage per hit (absurd) for the increased accuracy of the spear to outweigh the increase of 5 average damage per hit.

 

Thank you for some common sense.

[geesch]

These 'tests' are just as much of an opinion as my experiences using both are. I dont want to beat this to death, because certain people (^^^^^) seem to be making this somewhat personal. The moron above me seems to think that the difference between the two is lifechanging, when infact, the difference is so small that opinions are able to be completely different. Perhaps if you arent maxed, the added accuracy of the ZS makes it a better choice than the SS, which applies to me. If you are maxed, then maybe the results of the SS are better than the ZS. As for the bogus math above, i dont know where you get the number 90.3%. Using a ratio (whether that is proper or not is beyond me, but ill do it anyways.) If 90% = 60 crush, then 65 crush should give an accuracy of 97.5%. Like i said, this is based on a ratio, which seems viable to me if youre numbers are right.

[Bladewing]

These 'tests' are just as much of an opinion as my experiences using both are.

Now you're sounding like a juggalo who doesn't want to talk to a scientist cause they're always lying and gettin' you pissed. Not everything is an opinion.

 

Perhaps if you arent maxed, the added accuracy of the ZS makes it a better choice than the SS, which applies to me.

Perhaps, but piety would be the next logical step rather than the Z spear. But I'll agree the difference between them is not lifechanging - it's a few thousand xp/h and it really isn't going to kill you to use the spear.

 

If 90% = 60 crush, then 65 crush should give an accuracy of 97.5%. Like i said, this is based on a ratio, which seems viable to me if youre numbers are right.

If I hit 80% of the time with my rune scimitar (45 slash) on cows, then based on a ratio I should be able to use a godsword (132 slash) and hit 235% of the time.

 

Where you went wrong is that you are not taking into account attack level, potions, prayers, and accuracy bonuses from other equipments. Also accuracy bonuses have diminishing marginal returns after you hit 50% of the time.

[geesch]

Unless these were extensive tests performed over many hours and trials, the results count for as much as my opinion. Thats what i was saying.

 

Cant argue the second point.

 

I wasnt suggesting my calculation was correct, but i fail to see where the ZS becomes 90.3% as opposed to 90. But as for the prayers, pots, etc, i was suggesting a comparison where both would be using the same, which should cancel out leaving only the math i suggested. Surely the game is more complex than this, and i highly doubt anybody knows for sure (other than the programmers) how exactly these calculations are made.

 

Lets just agree that they are more or less the same.

[aspeeder]

Unless these were extensive tests performed over many hours and trials, the results count for as much as my opinion. Thats what i was saying.

 

Cant argue the second point.

 

I wasnt suggesting my calculation was correct, but i fail to see where the ZS becomes 90.3% as opposed to 90. But as for the prayers, pots, etc, i was suggesting a comparison where both would be using the same, which should cancel out leaving only the math i suggested. Surely the game is more complex than this, and i highly doubt anybody knows for sure (other than the programmers) how exactly these calculations are made.

 

Lets just agree that they are more or less the same.

You want extensive testing? Here you go.

[Bladewing]

20 minutes of each isn't extensive, and that wasn't the experiment referred to before.

[Just_Ne_Pker]

To help the guy who posted the question (hint); let me remind you at Familiarisation, if you weren't planning to do it already. To give you an idea: I did a 243 WFS task (in chaos tunnels, but hey) with Familiarisation and got 366 crimsons, 42 golds, 8 greens and 6 blues. Ok, you will get less charms due to fighting in the Ancient Cavern and you can do Familiarisation only once a week, but it is something that can make a notable difference. Also, Bork is a quick source of blue charms, which guarantee huge chunks of XP too ;).

[aspeeder]

20 minutes of each isn't extensive, and that wasn't the experiment referred to before.

Technically over an hour of each, but that was just to prove a point that testing has been done and this isn't just opinions and guesses as to how stat bonuses affect damage output; the Saradomin Sword is the superior crush weapon at waterfiends.