Cochlear Implants

[Racheya]

There's nothing *wrong* with being deaf, but I don't know how you can say you can be deaf or able to hear and it doesn't matter. It DOES. The ability to hear is important. It's not a matter of preference at all. If we didn't need the ability to hear then we wouldn't have it.

 

The reason that deaf people want to stay deaf is because they're accustomed to how they are and don't want to change, if you ask me. It's got nothing to do with the actual ability to hear at all, it's just that they've managed to work around their disability and are comfortable. It doesn't mean that they don't wish they could have had the ability to hear right from the start.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

Not being able to hear, however, makes a far larger difference to lifestyle than all of those. I never said deafness was an absolute evil, and I'll be the first to say that people can still have a high quality of life despite having some kind of physical disability, but regardless of anything else, said disability is not how the human body is supposed to work.

 

 

And where are you getting this "larger difference" from? Do you have experience working with the deaf? Have you read ANY autobiographies of a deaf person? Or are you simply taking your life, removing your hearing, and trying to live the same life?

 

The key point here is, as you said, "difference" in lifestyle. You life WILL be different if you are living as a deaf person.

 

But it is not worse. There is no reason that it is a condition that should be "fixed" for everybody. There is nothing wrong about it. It is just a different life, and there are plenty of Deaf who are as happy or happier than you are.

 

And for the strength topic: you say that your level of strength does not affect you life. Well, I am sure an olympic weightlifter would not be happy with your level of strength. Because he takes pleasure in lifting weights. But he does not look at you like you are some kind of idiot for not being stronger, he knows that this is just what he chooses to do with his life. I am sure you wouldn't like it if he tried to tell you that the human body is supposed to lift 300 pounds over its head. Similarly, most Deaf would not like it if you tell them that the human body is supposed to hear and that hearing is "correct"

 

There's nothing *wrong* with being deaf, but I don't know how you can say you can be deaf or able to hear and it doesn't matter. It DOES. The ability to hear is important. It's not a matter of preference at all. If we didn't need the ability to hear then we wouldn't have it.

 

The reason that deaf people want to stay deaf is because they're accustomed to how they are and don't want to change, if you ask me. It's got nothing to do with the actual ability to hear at all, it's just that they've managed to work around their disability and are comfortable. It doesn't mean that they don't wish they could have had the ability to hear right from the start.

 

And a Deaf person would tell you that the ability to sign is important.

 

Also your second paragraph is completely incorrect. I have had conversations with Deaf who say they would not choose to hear if they were given the chance, or that they wish they were born hearing. I have also talked to Deaf who hate their deafness. Neither group is wrong or right, theyre just living the way they see is good.

[obfuscator]

Buddhism doesnt appeal to you? But what is the disadvantage? Clearly everything that you choose not to do, or everything you dont like, must have a disadvantage.

 

There are plenty of Deaf people who want to be deaf, have the cochlear available, have hearing aids available, and choose deafness. Somehow I think thats telling! Oh crap, we have two "telling" situations now. Looks like its just a matter of choice. NEITHER IS BETTER

 

I dont watch movies muted with subtitles because I dont want to. It doesnt appeal to me. That is not direct proof that for every individual on this earth, they must watch movies with sound in order to enjoy it. Not everyone enjoys sound more, just like you dont enjoy Buddhism more.

 

The disadvantage, of Buddhism, to me, is that in order to be a proper Buddhist, one must dedicate time and effort. Why would I do that for something that I don't believe in?

 

I've never denied that there are deaf people who want to be deaf. It still doesn't change the fact that in todays society, it puts them at a disadvantage.

 

I've already addressed why certain things don't appeal to me, but you seem unable to articulate exactly why it is that watching movies muted with subtitles doesn't appeal to you.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

The disadvantage, of Buddhism, to me, is that in order to be a proper Buddhist, one must dedicate time and effort. Why would I do that for something that I don't believe in?

 

I've never denied that there are deaf people who want to be deaf. It still doesn't change the fact that in todays society, it puts them at a disadvantage.

 

I've already addressed why certain things don't appeal to me, but you seem unable to articulate exactly why it is that watching movies muted with subtitles doesn't appeal to you.

 

Watching muted movies doesnt appeal to me because I am a person who has learned to use his hearing.

 

Watching movies as a deaf person is enjoyable to them because they don't have hearing and do not rely on sounds to understand concepts of what is going on on the screen. Again you seem to be imagining if you took your hearing away. You need to imagine what it would be like to simply exist in a world where sound is not important.

 

I am sure there is something that is important to you because you have lived knowing it. You city, your family, your religion, heritage, occupation, school interest. Anything you like, you only like it because you have learned to like it.

 

Also, ASL poetry is as important to a Deaf person as watching a sound movie is to you. You seem to think that just because sound is important to you in a movie, therefore it is necessary for everyone. Well, ASL poetry is important to thousands of people, I guess it must be necessary for everyone too so you better start learning.

[Romy]

 

The disadvantage, of Buddhism, to me, is that in order to be a proper Buddhist, one must dedicate time and effort. Why would I do that for something that I don't believe in?

 

I've never denied that there are deaf people who want to be deaf. It still doesn't change the fact that in todays society, it puts them at a disadvantage.

 

I've already addressed why certain things don't appeal to me, but you seem unable to articulate exactly why it is that watching movies muted with subtitles doesn't appeal to you.

 

Watching muted movies doesnt appeal to me because I am a person who has learned to use his hearing.

 

Watching movies as a deaf person is enjoyable to them because they don't have hearing and do not rely on sounds to understand concepts of what is going on on the screen. Again you seem to be imagining if you took your hearing away. You need to imagine what it would be like to simply exist in a world where sound is not important.

 

I am sure there is something that is important to you because you have lived knowing it. You city, your family, your religion, heritage, occupation, school interest. Anything you like, you only like it because you have learned to like it.

 

Also, ASL poetry is as important to a Deaf person as watching a sound movie is to you. You seem to think that just because sound is important to you in a movie, therefore it is necessary for everyone. Well, ASL poetry is important to thousands of people, I guess it must be necessary for everyone too so you better start learning.

 

But it is important. Even if you neglect parts like watching movies as intended (which you shouldn't, it makes no sense to) - Car accidents, life-saving calls, an approaching train, thief, murderer, rapist, or any other thing that could severely hurt a person's lfe, these are all taken away from deaf people. They're disadvantaged here, there's no question about it.

[obfuscator]

 

The disadvantage, of Buddhism, to me, is that in order to be a proper Buddhist, one must dedicate time and effort. Why would I do that for something that I don't believe in?

 

I've never denied that there are deaf people who want to be deaf. It still doesn't change the fact that in todays society, it puts them at a disadvantage.

 

I've already addressed why certain things don't appeal to me, but you seem unable to articulate exactly why it is that watching movies muted with subtitles doesn't appeal to you.

 

Watching muted movies doesnt appeal to me because I am a person who has learned to use his hearing.

 

Watching movies as a deaf person is enjoyable to them because they don't have hearing and do not rely on sounds to understand concepts of what is going on on the screen. Again you seem to be imagining if you took your hearing away. You need to imagine what it would be like to simply exist in a world where sound is not important.

 

I am sure there is something that is important to you because you have lived knowing it. You city, your family, your religion, heritage, occupation, school interest. Anything you like, you only like it because you have learned to like it.

 

Also, ASL poetry is as important to a Deaf person as watching a sound movie is to you. You seem to think that just because sound is important to you in a movie, therefore it is necessary for everyone. Well, ASL poetry is important to thousands of people, I guess it must be necessary for everyone too so you better start learning.

ASL poetry is made for people who know ASL. If I wanted to experience that, I could.

 

Movies are made for the hearing. Just as I am disadvataged if I try to enjoy ASL poetry, they deaf are disadvantaged if they try to enjoy movies with sound.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

ASL poetry is made for people who know ASL. If I wanted to experience that, I could.

 

Movies are made for the hearing. Just as I am disadvataged if I try to enjoy ASL poetry, they deaf are disadvantaged if they try to enjoy movies with sound.

 

And you likely do not have the genetics to become a professional basketball player, therefore you are disadvantaged in life.

 

But it is important. Even if you neglect parts like watching movies as intended (which you shouldn't, it makes no sense to) - Car accidents, life-saving calls, an approaching train, thief, murderer, rapist, or any other thing that could severely hurt a person's lfe, these are all taken away from deaf people. They're disadvantaged here, there's no question about it

 

It has been proven that people lacking one sense will have stronger senses in other departments. There are definitely some situations where Deaf people will beat you in their visual sense and this could potentially save their life over yours.

 

Also if a 400 pound rock falls on my dad, he could bench press it off and save his life due to his physical strength. Therefore you are disabled and need to train your strength incase you have to save your life.

 

I trained in martial arts for 10 years of my life and have actually faught off a mugger with my abilities. You dont have these abilities and therefore in order to be fully prepared to save your life, you need to know martial arts.

 

Damn thats a lot of stuff you better start training...strength, speed, martial arts, vertical jump...all of these could be life saving, how many do you choose to train?

[Romy]

But it is important. Even if you neglect parts like watching movies as intended (which you shouldn't, it makes no sense to) - Car accidents, life-saving calls, an approaching train, thief, murderer, rapist, or any other thing that could severely hurt a person's lfe, these are all taken away from deaf people. They're disadvantaged here, there's no question about it

 

It has been proven that people lacking one sense will have stronger senses in other departments. There are definitely some situations where Deaf people will beat you in their visual sense and this could potentially save their life over yours.

 

It wouldn't be the first time deaf people are hurt because they couldn't hear. And their other senses became better because they have to rely on them - because they cannot rely on their hearing. Therefore, they're making up for their disability.

 

Also if a 400 pound rock falls on my dad, he could bench press it off and save his life due to his physical strength. Therefore you are disabled and need to train your strength incase you have to save your life.

 

I trained in martial arts for 10 years of my life and have actually faught off a mugger with my abilities. You dont have these abilities and therefore in order to be fully prepared to save your life, you need to know martial arts.

 

Damn thats a lot of stuff you better start training...strength, speed, martial arts, vertical jump...all of these could be life saving, how many do you choose to train?

 

The difference is - I can choose to start training right now. I can choose to learn self defence (and actually have, just saying). Deaf people cannot choose not to be deaf, that's why it's a disability.

[obfuscator]

 

And you likely do not have the genetics to become a professional basketball player, therefore you are disadvantaged in life.

 

I wouldn't be disadvantaged unless I tried to play professional basketball, which is exactly my point ;)

 

But it is important. Even if you neglect parts like watching movies as intended (which you shouldn't, it makes no sense to) - Car accidents, life-saving calls, an approaching train, thief, murderer, rapist, or any other thing that could severely hurt a person's lfe, these are all taken away from deaf people. They're disadvantaged here, there's no question about it

 

It has been proven that people lacking one sense will have stronger senses in other departments. There are definitely some situations where Deaf people will beat you in their visual sense and this could potentially save their life over yours.

 

Also if a 400 pound rock falls on my dad, he could bench press it off and save his life due to his physical strength. Therefore you are disabled and need to train your strength incase you have to save your life.

 

I trained in martial arts for 10 years of my life and have actually faught off a mugger with my abilities. You dont have these abilities and therefore in order to be fully prepared to save your life, you need to know martial arts.

 

Damn thats a lot of stuff you better start training...strength, speed, martial arts, vertical jump...all of these could be life saving, how many do you choose to train?

 

Why don't you train in yoga, so you can survive for days in freezing temperatures naked?

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

I wouldn't be disadvantaged unless I tried to play professional basketball, which is exactly my point ;)

And there exists a culture where they dont try to hear, dont need to hear, and do nothing where sound is important. Deaf people dont sit around with earphones on their head and say COME ON COME ON COME ON.

 

They just do things that dont require hearing...Just like you dont try to play basketball, deaf people dont force themselves to behave like hearing people.

 

Why don't you train in yoga, so you can survive for days in freezing temperatures naked?

 

I dont understand the point of asking me this. This is a question that proves my point. I dont train for this because there is no logical reason that someone should live their life one way instead of another. It is personal choice.

 

The difference is - I can choose to start training right now. I can choose to learn self defence (and actually have, just saying). Deaf people cannot choose not to be deaf, that's why it's a disability.

 

The point I am making is that there is no reason it is "right" to get a cochlear. Just like it is not right or wrong to do anything with your life. We are all missing on things. Not everyone has the genetic potential to do anything in life, and not everyone even wants to do it. Just because they cannot learn to use sound doesn't necessarily mean that they all wish they could. Just like you cannot be in the NBA and you may or may not wish that you could.

[obfuscator]

And there exists a culture where they dont try to hear, dont need to hear, and do nothing where sound is important. Deaf people dont sit around with earphones on their head and say COME ON COME ON COME ON.

 

They just do things that dont require hearing...Just like you dont try to play basketball, deaf people dont force themselves to behave like hearing people.

And thus, when they do something that requires hearing, they are at a disadvantage.

 

 

I dont understand the point of asking me this. This is a question that proves my point. I dont train for this because there is no logical reason that someone should live their life one way instead of another. It is personal choice.

 

Of course it is. I wouldn't dream of forcing deaf people to behave in any specific way whatsoever.

However, my point is that if you were stuck in the arctic naked without knowing yoga you would be at a disadvantage, just as deaf people are when attempting to do something meant for the hearing.

[Romy]

 

The difference is - I can choose to start training right now. I can choose to learn self defence (and actually have, just saying). Deaf people cannot choose not to be deaf, that's why it's a disability.

 

The point I am making is that there is no reason it is "right" to get a cochlear. Just like it is not right or wrong to do anything with your life. We are all missing on things. Not everyone has the genetic potential to do anything in life, and not everyone even wants to do it. Just because they cannot learn to use sound doesn't necessarily mean that they all wish they could. Just like you cannot be in the NBA and you may or may not wish that you could.

 

I'm not trying to encourage getting cochlears or whatever. I'm just trying to explain that deafness is a disability.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

And thus, when they do something that requires hearing, they are at a disadvantage.

 

Of course it is. I wouldn't dream of forcing deaf people to behave in any specific way whatsoever.

However, my point is that if you were stuck in the arctic naked without knowing yoga you would be at a disadvantage, just as deaf people are when attempting to do something meant for the hearing.

 

Deaf people dont do things that are made for hearing-only people.

 

I'm not trying to encourage getting cochlears or whatever. I'm just trying to explain that deafness is a disability

 

Yes and you are saying they are disabled because they are at a disadvantage. That is it more advantageous to hear than to not hear. We have disabilty legislation in place because most people can hear and a lot of things are designed by hearing people for hearing people. We want to make the world acessible to those who cannot hear. It is different to say that deafness is bad, inferior, or a disadvantage.

 

Disability accomodation is for people who are different, not people who are inferior.

[Romy]

I'm not trying to encourage getting cochlears or whatever. I'm just trying to explain that deafness is a disability

 

Yes and you are saying they are disabled because they are at a disadvantage. That is it more advantageous to hear than to not hear.

 

It obviously is. It's an ability that certain people do not have, thus they're disadvantaged.

 

We have disabilty legislation in place because most people can hear and a lot of things are designed by hearing people for hearing people. We want to make the world acessible to those who cannot hear. It is different to say that deafness is bad, inferior, or a disadvantage.

 

It isn't bad or inferior. It is a disadvantage.

[obfuscator]

 

Deaf people dont do things that are made for hearing-only people.

 

Ahh yes, I forgot deaf people are Hollywood's primary audience.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

It isn't bad or inferior. It is a disadvantage.

 

It is a disadvantage in the social sense since most people construct the world for people who can hear. If 90% of the world was deaf, they would not be at a disadvantage. This is what things like interpreters can help people be on even playing field in the social realm.

 

But what I am saying is that it is not advantageous to hear vs not hear. Like I said, the other senses of the Deaf are going to be stronger than yours, so are you disadvantaged too? Are you then disabled?

 

There is a social disadvantage due to acessibility issues. There is not a clear "hearing is better than not hearing" advantage. Verbal communication is not "better" than sign communication. It is better in the sense that more people use verbal skills, but it is an arbitrary decision of society.

 

This gives way to the dual meaning of "disability". There is the legal sense that means people dont have the ability to acess what is available in the world. But there is also the personal sense where people think that a life with sound is better than a life without sounds. The first meaning of disability is acceptable, but the second meaning is what people take offense to.

[Romy]

 

It isn't bad or inferior. It is a disadvantage.

 

It is a disadvantage in the social sense since most people construct the world for people who can hear.

 

Actually, it's more than just a social disavantage. As I stated earlier, there are certain cases in which hearing could save lives.

 

But what I am saying is that it is not advantageous to hear vs not hear. Like I said, the other senses of the Deaf are going to be stronger than yours, so are you disadvantaged too? Are you then disabled?

 

No, because A ) I still have these senses, only to a lesser degree. And B ) Theoratically, these things can be improved if I wanted to (to an extent). Deaf people cannot choose not to be deaf

 

There is a social disadvantage due to acessibility issues. There is not a clear "hearing is better than not hearing" advantage. Verbal communication is not "better" than sign communication. It is better in the sense that more people use verbal skills, but it is an arbitrary decision of society.

 

It is better. It allows communication from distance, through a phone, without eye-contact, etc.

 

This gives way to the dual meaning of "disability". There is the legal sense that means people dont have the ability to acess what is available in the world. But there is also the personal sense where people think that a life with sound is better than a life without sounds. The first meaning of disability is acceptable, but the second meaning is what people take offense to.

 

The fact that someone takes offence to something, does not make it not true anymore. Deafness is a disadvantage, even if some don't like that definition.

[Seraphi]

Okay, okay, if people are already accustomed to the lifestyle they have developed around the disability, then yes, they should be able to have the choice to have the implant or not, because as you've said, they are comfortable with their life, and may not want to change.

 

However, I personally believe that the implant should be given to a young child, as it WILL solve a lot of problems that he/she would encounter due to being deaf. Social problems, difficulties learning, a lot of things being innaccessible due to the disability.

 

I mean, if you had the power to stop people being deaf from the moment of birth, starting in two days time, would you? This may be a slightly off analogy, but it gets the point across that if a child was raised and adapted to being deaf, then yes, they may not want their hearing because it would upset the lifestyle. But, if they have the implant and are raised with normal hearing, their quality of life will be higher, since everyday tasks will be much easier to handle. This is because, no matter what, deafness IS a disadvantage. A life with sound IS easier than one without. Whether it is better or not is completely point of view based, but it is definitely easier.

[Myweponsg00d]

Actually, it's more than just a social disavantage. As I stated earlier, there are certain cases in which hearing could save lives.

And as I stated, there are situations where having "deaf eyes" could save YOUR life, but your senses are too accustomed to rely on your hearing. There are other situations such as places of intense noise where a deaf person would be able to react clearly, but a hearing person would be in pain due to the loud noise.

 

No, because A ) I still have these senses, only to a lesser degree. And B ) Theoratically, these things can be improved if I wanted to (to an extent). Deaf people cannot choose not to be deaf

What does choice have to do with anything? You still lack the ability. Also there are things you could not make the choice of. No matter what you want, you cant be as tall as Shaquille o'neil. I think there are some situations where his size could save his life. So are you disabled in your height?

 

It is better. It allows communication from distance, through a phone, without eye-contact, etc.

 

This just shows how little you know about sign language. First of all ASL works just fine at a distance...Secondly the Deaf have special phones that convert incoming speech to text and outgoing text to speech. Thirdly, it is true that you can communicate without eye contact with speech, but with ASL you can communicate through windows, and across rooms without getting the attention of everyone. You can also communicate at rock concerts, on airplanes, at race tracks, without having to injure your vocal chords.

 

Also, ASL is a visual language and has many advantages in that department. Imagine explaining this picture to someone, by using only spoken or written english

It would take a very long time to write that down in words. With ASL, you can use visual components of the language to create an exact idea of what you want the person to see. After learning ASL, there have been many cases where I go to give directions to somebody and think "This would be so much easier if I could use sign language..." There are a very strict set of guidelines you would use to describe that picture in ASL and it would take less than 50% of the time, and be a lot more clear.

 

The fact that someone takes offence to something, does not make it not true anymore. Deafness is a disadvantage, even if some don't like that definition.

 

Sounds like the type of thing Hitler would say about the blacks and the jews. These people live differently and therefore are at a disadvantage.

[Racheya]

Actually, it's more than just a social disavantage. As I stated earlier, there are certain cases in which hearing could save lives.

And as I stated, there are situations where having "deaf eyes" could save YOUR life, but your senses are too accustomed to rely on your hearing. There are other situations such as places of intense noise where a deaf person would be able to react clearly, but a hearing person would be in pain due to the loud noise.

I highly doubt that the need for 'deaf eyes' will pop up very often in someone's life. And as for situations of intense noise - that's what ear mufflers are for. How many situations like that are you likely to be in? If you're a construction worker then probably quite a few, but you have the correct equipment to deal with it..

 

No, because A ) I still have these senses, only to a lesser degree. And B ) Theoratically, these things can be improved if I wanted to (to an extent). Deaf people cannot choose not to be deaf

What does choice have to do with anything? You still lack the ability. Also there are things you could not make the choice of. No matter what you want, you cant be as tall as Shaquille o'neil. I think there are some situations where his size could save his life. So are you disabled in your height?

Everybody has differences in height, it's a common difference like hair colour or eye colour. Being deaf is not the same as being small.

 

It is better. It allows communication from distance, through a phone, without eye-contact, etc.

 

This just shows how little you know about sign language. First of all ASL works just fine at a distance...Secondly the Deaf have special phones that convert incoming speech to text and outgoing text to speech. Thirdly, it is true that you can communicate without eye contact with speech, but with ASL you can communicate through windows, and across rooms without getting the attention of everyone. You can also communicate at rock concerts, on airplanes, at race tracks, without having to injure your vocal chords.

 

Also, ASL is a visual language and has many advantages in that department. Imagine explaining this picture to someone, by using only spoken or written english

It would take a very long time to write that down in words. With ASL, you can use visual components of the language to create an exact idea of what you want the person to see. After learning ASL, there have been many cases where I go to give directions to somebody and think "This would be so much easier if I could use sign language..." There are a very strict set of guidelines you would use to describe that picture in ASL and it would take less than 50% of the time, and be a lot more clear.

ASL would only work if you can actually see the person, once they reach a certain distance away, you wouldn't be able to see the hand movements and therefore communicate. The need for special phones would cost the person money, a disadvantage to people who can pick up any cheap phone and use it. You can also use text messages to communicate with people in settings like this (eg rock concerts).

 

Why would you need to explain the picture to someone? I assume that they can just see it.

 

 

The fact that someone takes offence to something, does not make it not true anymore. Deafness is a disadvantage, even if some don't like that definition.

 

Sounds like the type of thing Hitler would say about the blacks and the jews. These people live differently and therefore are at a disadvantage.

There are some things that are a disadvantage. Not being able to hear IS A DISADVANTAGE. There are ways to work around it, but it doesn't make it any less of a disadvantage.

 

And I assume you've never heard of Godwin's law

[Myweponsg00d]

However, I personally believe that the implant should be given to a young child, as it WILL solve a lot of problems that he/she would encounter due to being deaf. Social problems, difficulties learning, a lot of things being innaccessible due to the disability.

Did you skip over what I have said thus far? If anything, trying to force a cochlear on a deaf child is MORE likely to create these problems. It is very difficult to learn to use the device, and having it implanted in a baby is not any easier to use. The fact of the matter is that most children who are implanted and forced to attempt to learn spoken English NEVER FULLY LEARN A LANGUAGE. It is too difficult and unnatural for them and implanted children will often times grow into illiterate adults. If you let your deaf baby just learn ASL he can start learning it as young as 6 months, and end up having greater cognitive ability than one who is forced to speak English as his primary language.

 

I mean, if you had the power to stop people being deaf from the moment of birth, starting in two days time, would you? This may be a slightly off analogy, but it gets the point across that if a child was raised and adapted to being deaf, then yes, they may not want their hearing because it would upset the lifestyle. But, if they have the implant and are raised with normal hearing, their quality of life will be higher, since everyday tasks will be much easier to handle. This is because, no matter what, deafness IS a disadvantage. A life with sound IS easier than one without. Whether it is better or not is completely point of view based, but it is definitely easier.

 

This paragraph is just filled with too many incorrect, ignorant, and upsetting flaws, to even comment any further. I suggest you read a book written by a deaf person who underwent this trauma and maybe you will understand why it is unfair to expect a deaf person to attempt to live a hearing life.

 

As far as "Would I fix deafness if there was a perfect fix for it?" I really dont know. Thats like saying "If you could make everyone in the world the same, would you?" I just dont think I can answer that question. I probably wouldn't. I dont think theres a way we can define one type of life as any more "perfect" than another type of life. I mean what would be next, get rid of short people?

[Myweponsg00d]

 

I highly doubt that the need for 'deaf eyes' will pop up very often in someone's life. And as for situations of intense noise - that's what ear mufflers are for. How many situations like that are you likely to be in? If you're a construction worker then probably quite a few, but you have the correct equipment to deal with it..

 

 

And how many freaking situations have you been in where your working ears were the only reason you survived?? And don't say that you almost walked into traffic but then heard a car horn, because if you didnt have hearing you wouldnt put yourself in situations where you relied on it like that.

 

Everybody has differences in height, it's a common difference like hair colour or eye colour. Being deaf is not the same as being small.

And everyone has differences in hearing ability. Your life will be different depending on your height, your life will be different depending on your hearing. Some things are easier for tall people. Some things are easier for short people. Some things are easier for deaf people. Some things are easier for hearing people.

 

ASL would only work if you can actually see the person, once they reach a certain distance away, you wouldn't be able to see the hand movements and therefore communicate. The need for special phones would cost the person money, a disadvantage to people who can pick up any cheap phone and use it. You can also use text messages to communicate with people in settings like this (eg rock concerts).

 

Why would you need to explain the picture to someone? I assume that they can just see it.

 

And english would only work if you can HEAR the person! Or happen to have their cell number and have the time to text your message. And FYI as a 3 year user of ASL I feel that my range of communication would be much greater than by using spoken english. Like 200 yards away and I think I could easily communicate with ASL. With english you would be shouting so loud at that point...

 

And I guess nobody has ever approached you and said "excuse me where is the bathroom?" or "where can I find an Arby's"? I give people directions all the time and I dont happen to carry around a map of the city.

 

There are some things that are a disadvantage. Not being able to hear IS A DISADVANTAGE. There are ways to work around it, but it doesn't make it any less of a disadvantage.

 

And I assume you've never heard of Godwin's law

 

And being woken up at 4 AM by construction outside your window would be a disadvantage of hearing. Being less observant would be a disadvantage of hearing. Having less sensitivity to visual communication would be a DISADVANTAGE that you are in versus a deaf person. Everything has its disadvantages.

[tortilliachp]

why would i ever need to explain a picture to someone in sign language, rather than showing them the picture? i'm sure you can construct a situation, but the utility is very minor. I could also gesticulate, which by definition is sign language so you eliminate it from the situation to suit your argument, rather than reality.

 

How many words a minute can you sign? I know I speak quite rapidly myself, probably faster than you can read. but that's besides the point: how many people with normal hearing do you know that wish they were born deaf, rather than with hearing?

 

You have yet to respond to my argument on the top of page 3, about why not recognizing that lack of a sense is a disability burdens your surroundings.

[Rainy_Day]

 

The fact that someone takes offence to something, does not make it not true anymore. Deafness is a disadvantage, even if some don't like that definition.

 

Sounds like the type of thing Hitler would say about the blacks and the jews. These people live differently and therefore are at a disadvantage.

Woah, I question the seriousness of everything you've said after reading that. You're linking people saying deafness is a disadvantage to Hitler's comments regarding black people and Jewish people? How does that even come into this argument.

 

Whilst deafness is not a necessity to life, not having the ability to hear can make life a lot more difficult. Especially when most communication is through voice/listening. It most certainly is a disadvantage compared to people with all 5 senses in good condition.

[Racheya]

 

I highly doubt that the need for 'deaf eyes' will pop up very often in someone's life. And as for situations of intense noise - that's what ear mufflers are for. How many situations like that are you likely to be in? If you're a construction worker then probably quite a few, but you have the correct equipment to deal with it..

 

 

And how many freaking situations have you been in where your working ears were the only reason you survived?? And don't say that you almost walked into traffic but then heard a car horn, because if you didnt have hearing you wouldnt put yourself in situations where you relied on it like that.

I never said that there were many situations for this, but how many situations are there REALLY where being deaf would save your life? There are few times when hearing alone would save your life but I think there are far fewer where being deaf would save you, or having the supposed 'super senses' that you're claiming would save you.

 

Everybody has differences in height, it's a common difference like hair colour or eye colour. Being deaf is not the same as being small.

And everyone has differences in hearing ability. Your life will be different depending on your height, your life will be different depending on your hearing. Some things are easier for tall people. Some things are easier for short people. Some things are easier for deaf people. Some things are easier for hearing people.

There is a difference between slightly difference in hearing ability to not being able to hear at all. Just like how there are differences in sight. I have problems seeing things far away so I wear glasses to correct that. I recognise that it is a disadvantage just like what being deaf would be.

 

ASL would only work if you can actually see the person, once they reach a certain distance away, you wouldn't be able to see the hand movements and therefore communicate. The need for special phones would cost the person money, a disadvantage to people who can pick up any cheap phone and use it. You can also use text messages to communicate with people in settings like this (eg rock concerts).

 

Why would you need to explain the picture to someone? I assume that they can just see it.

 

And english would only work if you can HEAR the person! Or happen to have their cell number and have the time to text your message. And FYI as a 3 year user of ASL I feel that my range of communication would be much greater than by using spoken english. Like 200 yards away and I think I could easily communicate with ASL. With english you would be shouting so loud at that point...

 

And I guess nobody has ever approached you and said "excuse me where is the bathroom?" or "where can I find an Arby's"? I give people directions all the time and I dont happen to carry around a map of the city.

I don't pretend to be an expert on sign language, but can someone really see hand signals from that far away? I find it questionable.

 

Well when I give directions I say "turn left at the corridor over there then it's the second door on the right." I fail to understand what's wrong with that. Someone can explain directions using speech just as well as they could using sign language.

 

There are some things that are a disadvantage. Not being able to hear IS A DISADVANTAGE. There are ways to work around it, but it doesn't make it any less of a disadvantage.

 

And I assume you've never heard of Godwin's law

 

And being woken up at 4 AM by construction outside your window would be a disadvantage of hearing. Being less observant would be a disadvantage of hearing. Having less sensitivity to visual communication would be a DISADVANTAGE that you are in versus a deaf person. Everything has its disadvantages.

Having ear plugs would be an advantage at that time. So would a phone so you could call up the council and ask why on earth construction is going on at 4am outside your house :P Everything has it's disadvantages, you're right, but there are far more ADVANTAGES to being able to hear than not being able to.