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Cochlear Implants


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Woah, I question the seriousness of everything you've said after reading that. You're linking people saying deafness is a disadvantage to Hitler's comments regarding black people and Jewish people? How does that even come into this argument.

 

Whilst deafness is not a necessity to life, not having the ability to hear can make life a lot more difficult. Especially when most communication is through voice/listening. It most certainly is a disadvantage compared to people with all 5 senses in good condition.

 

Read a book such as "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh, and you will probably understand my comparison. Or if you want a scientific book about Deaf opression, read "Mask of Benevolence" by Harlan Lane. Both books give a very detailed analysis of how our attitude toward deaf children can scar them emotionally and opress their natural abilities. 4 senses is not worse than 5. Do you want me to convince you to get a 3rd arm implanted? Surely 3 arms are better than 2. And lastly, not being able to hear SEEMS TO YOU like it would be more difficult, mainly because you are a hearing person and you are imagining your exact life without your hearing. If you were a deaf person your life would be different, and your attitude toward sound would be different.

 

why would i ever need to explain a picture to someone in sign language, rather than showing them the picture? i'm sure you can construct a situation, but the utility is very minor. I could also gesticulate, which by definition is sign language so you eliminate it from the situation to suit your argument, rather than reality.

 

How many words a minute can you sign? I know I speak quite rapidly myself, probably faster than you can read. but that's besides the point: how many people with normal hearing do you know that wish they were born deaf, rather than with hearing?

 

You have yet to respond to my argument on the top of page 3, about why not recognizing that lack of a sense is a disability burdens your surroundings.

 

Okay the point was not really about the picture, but rather about the object that it depicts. Unless you have never had to explain to anyone how to get somewhere?

 

And in a minute I can sign many more words than you can speak. Also ASL has a different, more direct structure, which allows less words to be used in a sentence.

 

And finally, unless you are the tallest person in the world, you have less of an ability to see your surroundings than someone who is taller than you. Do you walk around wishing you were 10 feet tall so you could see over walls? Deaf people dont walk around wishing that they could hear (not all of them)

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The only way being a Black or a Jew is a disadvantage is if other people use discrimination to make your life difficult, so let's drop that subject.

 

I think what certain people are not getting here is what is considered a disability. Yes, not being able to bench press 400 pounds is disabling to me, but only in very uncommon circumstances. What determines a disability is how often this trait of yours will be affecting your life negatively. For deaf people, it will be more often then someone who is say, tall, because short people could simply not do sports that require height, while the deaf simply cannot avoid all of the daily activities that hearing enables.

 

Also, I find it hard to believe one can clearly make out signs from 200 yards away.

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The only way being a Black or a Jew is a disadvantage is if other people use discrimination to make your life difficult, so let's drop that subject.

 

I could honestly say the same thing about Deafness. If we all knew ASL I doubt deafness would be considered much of a disability. You should really inform yourself on some deaf culture literature and I think you will be suprised to find out how the deaf feel about their place in society.

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Woah, I question the seriousness of everything you've said after reading that. You're linking people saying deafness is a disadvantage to Hitler's comments regarding black people and Jewish people? How does that even come into this argument.

 

Whilst deafness is not a necessity to life, not having the ability to hear can make life a lot more difficult. Especially when most communication is through voice/listening. It most certainly is a disadvantage compared to people with all 5 senses in good condition.

 

Read a book such as "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh, and you will probably understand my comparison. Or if you want a scientific book about Deaf opression, read "Mask of Benevolence" by Harlan Lane. Both books give a very detailed analysis of how our attitude toward deaf children can scar them emotionally and opress their natural abilities. 4 senses is not worse than 5. Do you want me to convince you to get a 3rd arm implanted? Surely 3 arms are better than 2. And lastly, not being able to hear SEEMS TO YOU like it would be more difficult, mainly because you are a hearing person and you are imagining your exact life without your hearing. If you were a deaf person your life would be different, and your attitude toward sound would be different.

Can we get back to the main point of this thread? I think that you just brought up some common sense. I don't think there would be anything wrong with implanting a baby with a cochlear implant because they'll never have adjusted to being deaf. Once a person has adjusted and coped with being deaf then they won't be able to imagine life with sound, but if you told a child who has grown up with the ability to hear that you would take it away, they wouldn't like it. I think that the ability to give people the chance to hear is good, I can't imagine how you could say any different.

 

The only way being a Black or a Jew is a disadvantage is if other people use discrimination to make your life difficult, so let's drop that subject.

 

I could honestly say the same thing about Deafness. If we all knew ASL I doubt deafness would be considered much of a disability. You should really inform yourself on some deaf culture literature and I think you will be suprised to find out how the deaf feel about their place in society.

It would be a disability. Sign language only helps if you're around other people. You're deaf and you don't hear someone breaking into your house, sign language isn't going to do you any good now is it? The ability to communicate isn't the only thing that being deaf impairs to some extent.

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The only way being a Black or a Jew is a disadvantage is if other people use discrimination to make your life difficult, so let's drop that subject.

 

I could honestly say the same thing about Deafness. If we all knew ASL I doubt deafness would be considered much of a disability. You should really inform yourself on some deaf culture literature and I think you will be suprised to find out how the deaf feel about their place in society.

I agree, if everybody knew ASL, deaf people would have a much easier time. Unfortunately, not every part of hearing is just verbal communication. That's why it's a disability.

 

Edit: Racheya beat me to it.

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Can we get back to the main point of this thread? I think that you just brought up some common sense. I don't think there would be anything wrong with implanting a baby with a cochlear implant because they'll never have adjusted to being deaf. Once a person has adjusted and coped with being deaf then they won't be able to imagine life with sound, but if you told a child who has grown up with the ability to hear that you would take it away, they wouldn't like it. I think that the ability to give people the chance to hear is good, I can't imagine how you could say any different.

 

If the cochlear implant actually did what most people think that it does, without having to make a life altering modification to someones skull, I would STILL raise my child as a deaf child, in a deaf school, learning his most natural form of communication which would be manual communication. He is not going to miss out on anything by being raised as a deaf child. If he is unhappy with his Deaf life, that is for him to decide and I would allow him to get the surgery whenever he can clearly communicate to me that he is unsatisfied with his life as a deaf person.

 

 

It would be a disability. Sign language only helps if you're around other people. You're deaf and you don't hear someone breaking into your house, sign language isn't going to do you any good now is it? The ability to communicate isn't the only thing that being deaf impairs to some extent.

 

And hearing isn't gonna do you any good if you need to communicate with your husband without being heard by the person breaking into your house. And hearing isn't gonna do you any good if someone wants to tell you to move out of the way of a bus but you have your ipod blaring. Hearing and deafness have advantageous situations and disadvantageous situations, both of which are equally as common (or uncommon). For every life-threatening crazy scenario you want to dream up where deafness could kill you, I can create a scenario where hearing will kill you or someone else.

 

And if you want to return to the original topic, the cochlear is just ridiculous. Cochlear implants have more failures than sucesses in children. Some can end up learning english at almost a normal level, but most will end up at 4 years old without having ever developed a language and will grow up to be illiterate adults. Many Deaf people cannot read or write because their families tried to force feed spoken english to them when they were a baby, they missed their language development time period, and now have cognitive difficulty.

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Crossing a street without looking both ways is stupid enough, but adding in the fact that you'll be purposefully disabling yourself leads me to think that the death would be attributed to stupidity. and not the ability to hear. I see this is where we will have a problem, because you seem to think the deaf and hearing are equally disadvantaged. I don't find this to be true, or evolution wouldn't have made the majority of the human population with the ability to hear.

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Why not just get the implant and use ASL? Surely the implant doesn't prevent you from moving your hands. Sounds to me like all it does is give you another option, because lets be honest, not many people know ASL. Sure if everyone knew it then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd say there was hardly any need for the implant but that's not the case. I can only see having the option of "hearing" as a plus.

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You have yet to respond to my argument on the top of page 3, about why not recognizing that lack of a sense is a disability burdens your surroundings.

 

Okay the point was not really about the picture, but rather about the object that it depicts. Unless you have never had to explain to anyone how to get somewhere?

 

And in a minute I can sign many more words than you can speak. Also ASL has a different, more direct structure, which allows less words to be used in a sentence.

 

And finally, unless you are the tallest person in the world, you have less of an ability to see your surroundings than someone who is taller than you. Do you walk around wishing you were 10 feet tall so you could see over walls? Deaf people dont walk around wishing that they could hear (not all of them)

 

you have yet to respond to the argument on the top of page 3. continuing to ignore that post leads me to believe you don't have an argument to contradict me , but you don't want to admit that there's a flaw in your "superior experience" due to our lack of reading Deaf Culture books to show what image the deaf want to project of themselves.

 

 

All this speak of ASL. complete ignorance of all the other deaf languages and cultures globally. It's like ignoring all languages other than the American dialect of English. ignoring the fact that the deaf minority can't even communicate with each other face to face when travelling without aid.

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Why not just get the implant and use ASL? Surely the implant doesn't prevent you from moving your hands. Sounds to me like all it does is give you another option, because lets be honest, not many people know ASL. Sure if everyone knew it then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd say there was hardly any need for the implant but that's not the case. I can only see having the option of "hearing" as a plus.

 

Thats exactly correct. You could have your baby implanted and then teach him ASL anyway. But what is the point of doing the implant then? Why not just teach him ASL and then once he is old enough to understand what is available to him? I see no reason to predetermine a child's future like that. (have you seen the picture of what it looks like to have the implant?)

 

Also it does destroy any natural/residual hearing that the individual has a chance of retaining. My one deaf ASL instructor used to always talk about the popular radio songs she liked (she knew the names of them because she asked her hearing son to name it when it came on). I mean she couldn't make out the words or anything but she could still hear the rhythm. I wouldn't want to destroy something like that and give her nothing but mechanical noises. I suppose that if you have a COMPLETELY deaf baby, maybe it would be a good idea to give him a cochlear as long as you raise him still learning his easier language (ASL). But in reality there is no way to know that your child has absolutely zero hearing and will never develop any ear activity.

 

you have yet to respond to the argument on the top of page 3. continuing to ignore that post leads me to believe you don't have an argument to contradict me , but you don't want to admit that there's a flaw in your "superior experience" due to our lack of reading Deaf Culture books to show what image the deaf want to project of themselves.

 

All this speak of ASL. complete ignorance of all the other deaf languages and cultures globally. It's like ignoring all languages other than the American dialect of English. ignoring the fact that the deaf minority can't even communicate with each other face to face when travelling without aid.

 

I am pretty sure I gave a response to that post. In a nutshell I said that something that anybody does places a burden on society. Choosing to throw plastic away instead of recycle creates a burden. Choosing to learn only one language in your lifetime makes you a burden to society too. Choosing not to exercise makes you a burden to society.

 

I really dont think deaf are a burden to society though. Deaf can live with deaf communities and attend deaf events and have a perfectly full social life. Deaf dont have to be accomodated for by hearing.

 

Also I have no idea what you are getting at with the ASL versus british sign vs FSL...? All different languages are hard to understand unless you learn the language...? How does this make sign language any different from spoken language? And furthermore, the different sign languages are more similar than the different spoken languages. Plus, when you learn to communicate via sign language, you engage your visual processing more with language comprehension. A person who knows only ASL could communicate with someone who knows FrenchSL quite easily by using calssifiers and gestures. Definitely easier than someone who only speaks English and someone who only speaks French.

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You compared me to Hitler a few pages ago, and you compared somebody else to Hitler on the last page.

 

I don't think I really want to continue this discussion anymore, you seem to be getting so upset about it that you have started comparing everyone to Nazis.

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You compared me to Hitler a few pages ago, and you compared somebody else to Hitler on the last page.

 

I don't think I really want to continue this discussion anymore, you seem to be getting so upset about it that you have started comparing everyone to Nazis.

 

Its hard not to compare you to a nazi when you seem to think that your life is better than somebody elses because you experience it differently.

 

You might aswell call the French disadvantaged because they grow up in a poorer country than people in the USA. Or call the Japanese quality of life more difficult because their language has thousands of complicated characters in it.

 

Your hearing life is not better than a deaf life. It would be like someone telling you their life is better because they are a foot taller than you.

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You compared me to Hitler a few pages ago, and you compared somebody else to Hitler on the last page.

 

I don't think I really want to continue this discussion anymore, you seem to be getting so upset about it that you have started comparing everyone to Nazis.

 

Its hard not to compare you to a nazi when you seem to think that your life is better than somebody elses because you experience it differently.

 

You might aswell call the French disadvantaged because they grow up in a poorer country than people in the USA. Or call the Japanese quality of life more difficult because their language has thousands of complicated characters in it.

 

Your hearing life is not better than a deaf life. It would be like someone telling you their life is better because they are a foot taller than you.

Actually it would be like telling somebody you have X ray vision or laser eyes and thats why your life is better.

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Actually it would be like telling somebody you have X ray vision or laser eyes and thats why your life is better.

 

I don't really see how. Height would be something that many people have that you lack. Nobody has laser eyes or X ray vision.

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And hearing isn't gonna do you any good if you need to communicate with your husband without being heard by the person breaking into your house. And hearing isn't gonna do you any good if someone wants to tell you to move out of the way of a bus but you have your ipod blaring. Hearing and deafness have advantageous situations and disadvantageous situations, both of which are equally as common (or uncommon). For every life-threatening crazy scenario you want to dream up where deafness could kill you, I can create a scenario where hearing will kill you or someone else.

What?

Surely it's 100 times easier to whisper to your husband that someone is breaking into your house rather than using sign? And how would you know if someone had broken in if you couldn't hear them breaking in?

Can you give some more examples where being able to hear will put you at a disadvantage to being deaf? I really don't see it.

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What?

Surely it's 100 times easier to whisper to your husband that someone is breaking into your house rather than using sign? And how would you know if someone had broken in if you couldn't hear them breaking in?

Can you give some more examples where being able to hear will put you at a disadvantage to being deaf? I really don't see it.

 

First of all I would rather sign to my husband, as it is simple to see sign language but hard to hear whispers depending on the environment. Do you think that Navy SEALs use whispers to communicate in enemy territory? They use hand gestures. Also deaf people have bed vibration devices to wake them up like alarm clocks, and these are usually tied into the home security system aswell. Light based alarms are also common.

 

If you want to communicate with a friend in a loud room you dont have to shout.

 

If you are trying to sleep on an airplane you wont be disturbed by a crying baby.

 

If everybody was deaf you could fart in public.

 

Not having to deal with the sound of jackhammers outside your window, or noisy neighbors, or telemarketers.

 

You have less distractions when trying to concentrate on a mostly visual task.

 

Google something like "perks of deafness" or benefits or something. Read from the Deaf themselves how many common annoyances they are glad not to have in their life.

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wtf?

 

If they don't want to hear...they don't need the surgery. i think most of them would appreciate the 5th sense though.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. There is no deaf culture as far as I'm concerned. Not to be offensive of course if someone takes it that way. But what is deaf culture? A way for a group of people to deal with inability to hear? So wouldn't this new implant be exactly what deaf culture wants?

 

And as a side note, how the flipping hell did we bring Nazis and house robberies into this? Only on tipit :-?

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Undermining deaf culture? unsure.gif

 

wtf?

 

If they don't want to hear...they don't need the surgery. i think most of them would appreciate the 5th sense though.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. There is no deaf culture as far as I'm concerned. Not to be offensive of course if someone takes it that way. But what is deaf culture? A way for a group of people to deal with inability to hear? So wouldn't this new implant be exactly what deaf culture wants?

 

And as a side note, how the flipping hell did we bring Nazis and house robberies into this? Only on tipit :-?

 

When a group of people develop a unique language, basically they also develop a unique culture to go along with it. Language is more than just words, language is the structure of human means of communication.

 

With language comes things like social custom. For example, it is considered rude to leave a room without telling people where you are going and roughly how long you will be gone. (in Deaf culture) Deaf also like to wear plain clothes and keep things like jewelery to a minimum so that there arent as many visual distractions when signing. There are a lot more of such social customs.

 

There is also unique forms of expression to accompany sign language. In spoken English, "poetry" is the use of words that are arranged in a meaningful fashion. Sign poetry also exists, and it is the careful use of handshapes to convey expression. There are also ASL "songs" and something called an "ABC story" where you tell a story, using the handshapes of the alphabet in order. The Deaf also have things like "word games" like when we would say "Bill bill bo bill banana fanna fo fill, me my mo mill...bill"

 

And we arrived at Nazis because people like yourself are basically denying the existance of this culture, or calling it inferior to any other culture.

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*ranting*

Well evolution states otherwise. There is a type of underground lizard which is completely blind, why is it blind? Due to the lack of light there is no need to be able to see and in fact energy would be wasted trying to see. For it seeing is a disadvantage. However in humans being able to see and hear is a great advantage.

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*ranting*

Well evolution states otherwise. There is a type of underground lizard which is completely blind, why is it blind? Due to the lack of light there is no need to be able to see and in fact energy would be wasted trying to see. For it seeing is a disadvantage. However in humans being able to see and hear is a great advantage.

 

I think this could be a valid point if we still spent most of our days out in the wild being hunted by animals. But human ears didnt freakin evolve so they could hear TVs, cashiers, etc. Nothing about us evolved to exist in homes filled with technology and now the quality of life is not really determined by how easy it is for you to survive.

 

 

Oh well guys, I guess all the deaf people I have signed with in my life are just lying to me. The deaf people who you guys get your opinions from must be telling the truth.

 

Oh wait none of you have probably even had one conversation with one person who is a member of Deaf culture. I'll leave this thread to continue its ignorance. If you'd like to learn more about how you can stop oppression against these people who are just trying to live their lives the way that makes them just as happy as you are, you can contact me.

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I think this could be a valid point if we still spent most of our days out in the wild being hunted by animals. But human ears didnt freakin evolve so they could hear TVs, cashiers, etc. Nothing about us evolved to exist in homes filled with technology and now the quality of life is not really determined by how easy it is for you to survive.

 

 

Oh well guys, I guess all the deaf people I have signed with in my life are just lying to me. The deaf people who you guys get your opinions from must be telling the truth.

 

Oh wait none of you have probably even had one conversation with one person who is a member of Deaf culture. I'll leave this thread to continue its ignorance. If you'd like to learn more about how you can stop oppression against these people who are just trying to live their lives the way that makes them just as happy as you are, you can contact me.

 

 

ah, the predicted "high horse" moral ground exit stating that we're just idiots anyway, not respecting our opinions. you are right, we're all idiots for not agreeing with you.

 

Deaf people don't appreciate hearing, because they have little/ no experience with it and its benefits. Color blind people don't feel inhibited by not seeing color, you're getting a positively biased view if you only talk to deaf people about hearing. Of course deaf people have to see the positives of being deaf: it's not that bad. there's little they can do to change their situation (As the cochlear implant topic suggests). Being negative about your disability and instead of making the best of it would be stupid, counter-productive and lead to depression.

 

"telling the truth" : everyone has a personal truth: it's called an opinion, a view on life, a frame of reference. their truth is not necessarily true for others, but that doesn't make them liars. Setting up this false "either... or..." scenario shows your lack of understanding logic, argumentation, and a simplistic view of information in your surroundings (read: reality).

 

Thanks for assuming i don't talk to deaf people. My latest conversation with a deaf person was earlier today, at a concert of all places. I'll leave you to continue your ignorance, your self-righteousness, and haughtiness. If you want to learn about how to stop manipulating and antagonizing people in discussions, people who have open minds and want to learn from a discussion, not beat their opinion into other people's minds, you can contact me. Learning how dialog and discussion works, will give you valuable experience in how adults interact, in every situation, be it through sign language or otherwise.

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Yeah.. around the ear area. But.. so what? According to your wording I can say that dentists tamper with skulls daily, as if their livelihood depended upon it.

 

Dentists don't drill a hole into the skull of a child that is like 1 year old to destroy any natural tissue that may have some functionality and replace it with machinery that may or may not allow them to be part of hearing culture.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the connontation is all wrong, and that "drilling a hole in a skull" shouldn't be the only reason to hate cochlear implants.

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What?

Surely it's 100 times easier to whisper to your husband that someone is breaking into your house rather than using sign? And how would you know if someone had broken in if you couldn't hear them breaking in?

Can you give some more examples where being able to hear will put you at a disadvantage to being deaf? I really don't see it.

 

First of all I would rather sign to my husband, as it is simple to see sign language but hard to hear whispers depending on the environment. Do you think that Navy SEALs use whispers to communicate in enemy territory? They use hand gestures. Also deaf people have bed vibration devices to wake them up like alarm clocks, and these are usually tied into the home security system aswell. Light based alarms are also common.

 

If you want to communicate with a friend in a loud room you dont have to shout.

 

If you are trying to sleep on an airplane you wont be disturbed by a crying baby.

 

If everybody was deaf you could fart in public.

 

Not having to deal with the sound of jackhammers outside your window, or noisy neighbors, or telemarketers.

 

You have less distractions when trying to concentrate on a mostly visual task.

 

Google something like "perks of deafness" or benefits or something. Read from the Deaf themselves how many common annoyances they are glad not to have in their life.

Most of these can be solved with noise canceling headphones, or sign language. The farting in public is just stupid, because people still have a sense of smell. Basically, it's better to have bother hearing and sign language, than to have no hearing and sign language. I'm fairly sure thw majority of the Navy Seals can hear, so why don't you list examples where the inability to hear is helpful, in situations where you won't have noise canceling head phones?

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Most of these can be solved with noise canceling headphones, or sign language. The farting in public is just stupid, because people still have a sense of smell. Basically, it's better to have bother hearing and sign language, than to have no hearing and sign language. I'm fairly sure thw majority of the Navy Seals can hear, so why don't you list examples where the inability to hear is helpful, in situations where you won't have noise canceling head phones?

 

Any problem with hearing can be solved with a tool, and any problem with deafness can be solved with a tool. Communication can be done on paper, you can understand movies by reading a transcription, you can have interpretation. Etc. I suppose you will say "but the deaf cannot enjoy music" which is first of all, not true. Secondly, not everyone needs to enjoy every aspect of life that you deem important.

 

When people are paralyzed, we dont equip them with inefficient robotic legs, just to make them conform to the standard that people need to walk. We give them the most efficient and dependable way to acess the world: a chair with wheels. For the deaf, a cochlear implant is not the most efficient and dependable way to acess the world. It is an uncomfortable process that may or may not even get the job done.

 

I tried to leave this thread alone, but I really just feel too guilty that there are people who cannot accept the fact that some people have the right to live their life however they want to. There are plenty of crazy things that people like for no reason. Why cant people like being Deaf?

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