Cannoning Black Demons

[Cheat]

Right well it really is about time I get my summoning up and I'm hoping for at least 68 for the time being for that war tortoise and the useful things before hand. I have heard on numerous occasions that cannoning black demons in the Taverly Dungeon is good crimsons/hr. So how do I go about it?

 

What should I wear? Do I pray melee protect from them or would using soul split to heal be better and then wearing bandos to increase dps? How many cannonballs an hour would I use/How much of a money sink is this?

What should my inventory look like? Does darklight have any use here? Is a whip a reasonable weapon (considering no chaotics) or are these demons particularly weak to any attack styles? Could I use dharoks set here? What is the melee xp per hour?

 

Thanks for your help in advance if theres anything you think I should know please tell.

[Dex]

Dark light = useless

Whip is fine. Black demons doesn't have a huge variation in defence against different types of attack so whip + d def fine..

And yes you should wear bandos whether you are protecting melee or soul splitting unless you are desperate for cash.

 

Generally, people use deflect melee because its less work. However, if you want you can flash ss when you are low on health if you want to conserve p pots. You will have to try both and see which one you prefer.

 

You will probably use about 2.5k cballs per hour if you set up your cannon in the middle so that you are in cb pretty much all the time.

 

Yes you can use dharok, and it should be pretty safe seeing as you can protect melee but I don't know how much better exp is compared to bandos + whip.

 

You should keep turmoil on when killing them.

 

Black demons are decent for crim charms but not the best. Waterfiends in ancient cavern has a higher crim drop per hour compared to black demons and it costs less.

[Quyneax]

Best way would be protect melee and wear elite void. I've tried tanking them with Bandos (on task) and it was very hectic with luring/cannon reloading/picking up drops/yakking (though not having a yak would make it slightly more relaxed).

 

Then, set up cannon, would be 2-2.5k/hr used, darklight sucks, whip is good, Dharoks is awesome (but remember you must pray melee). If Dharoking remember to let the cannon finish off demons at low health if you can (or let a bot do it) because you don't want to waste a potential 800+ hit on a 50 lp demon :P.

 

@Above: demons don't really depend on your primary weapon much, and with his stats (no maul, no extremes/ovl, no high melees) I'm pretty sure demons would be best.

[Cheat]

Thanks for the very quick replies. To Dex are you sure waterfiends are quicker I was told black demons were faster although I have no reason to believe that person over you. I think I might give dharoking a go as it's kinda fun. Quyneax you mentioned bots, are black demons fairly crowded? Because that would be a serious turn off.

[Quyneax]

They are crowded yes, but if you deal with it well it'll increase your kills/hr and Dharoks can be extra good for this :thumbup:.

[Dex]

Extracted this from effigyscape:

 

Kill per hour for black demons are 275. Which equals to 121 crims and 3 blues per hour based on the drop rate on runewiki.

 

Crim rate per hour at Waterfiend AC is 150.

 

Oh and bots are no match for your cannon.

[Quyneax]

Crim per hour at AC fiends is 130 raw (no other charms) and they got better blue rates than demons, too. Black demons are 170 crims/hr including effigies at high summoning levels though, and I'm pretty sure you won't be getting 130/hr without ovl/maul.

[Dex]

Ok so disregarding effigies, ac wfs drop 120 crims and 5 blues(reread effigyscape, the number i quoted is relative crimson charms, silly me :oops: ) while black demons drop 121 crims and 3 blues.

 

So I guess I was wrong, ac wfs doens't have a higher crim per hour then black demons.

[Alphanos]

Looking at your stats, it would be quite challenging to camp waterfiends with your summoning level + melee stats. You could guzzle prayer pots to keep soul split up, but it'll be much easier / more relaxing to do black demons. That said, black demons will be much more expensive, especially since you won't be yakking the ashes.

[Quyneax]

Ok so disregarding effigies, ac wfs drop 120 crims and 5 blues(reread effigyscape, the number i quoted is relative crimson charms, silly me :oops: ) while black demons drop 121 crims and 3 blues.

 

So I guess I was wrong, ac wfs doens't have a higher crim per hour then black demons.

No that's too low (for a max rate), wfs really are up to 130 crims/hr, faster than demons, it's just harder to reach when you don't have max stats. A cannon basically hits the same no matter your levels (provided you're not using a bronze dagger) so it's more noob-friendly.

 

Demons do offer more summoning xp just that more of it is in gold/effigies, and less in blue/crim.

[Cheat]

Does anyone know what kind of cost it would be for say 70 summon if all the charms were gained from black demons considering my current levels is 42.

[LitterBug]

Looking at your stats, it would be quite challenging to camp waterfiends with your summoning level + melee stats. You could guzzle prayer pots to keep soul split up, but it'll be much easier / more relaxing to do black demons. That said, black demons will be much more expensive, especially since you won't be yakking the ashes.

 

This - however, you seem pretty rich (having 95 prayer and all)

I would suggest try and getting extremes to boost your kills per hour.

Black demons are pretty good for charms - however I don't know how you can get a black demon off aggro form you so a bot kills it (other then setting the cannon on one end, when it's getting to be almost dead - run to the other side of the room and when the demon gets there run back). However, this will almost certainly be slower then just killing the demon (and wasting your potential 800 hit) and starting on a new one.

 

I found that a whip was good enough - and you should be killing them pretty easily.

I'm not familiar with exactly how turmoil works - but you should be killing them pretty fast (esp. with a cannon and void) so I don't know if the delayed kicking in of the drained stats will be better then piety.

Then again, I don't have curses. This is just something you might want to look into though.

[LitterBug]

Does anyone know what kind of cost it would be for say 70 summon if all the charms were gained from black demons considering my current levels is 42.

 

If you were to only use crimson charms, you can use this:

http://users.telenet.be/glodenox/Charms/CharmPattern.html

 

However, at lower levels - I would highly suggest using gold/green charms as you get them.

They're not majorly expensive and the secondaries cost next to nothing.

 

I'll tell you how I leveled my summoning (I just bank the charms until I get enough to get to a specific level before leveling)

From:

>41 - Macaw (Green)

>43 - Spirit Cockatrice (Green)

>46 - Pyrelord (Crimson)

>47 - Magpie (Green)

>48 - Bloated Leech (Crimson)

>52 - Spirit Terrorbirds (Gold)

When I hunted - I didn't get enough gold so I used crimsons as well

If you anticipate training summoning - start a few days ahead and buy the raw bird meat from Oo'long

>56 - Ilbis (Green)

>61 - Smoke Devil (Crimson)

>64 - Strange Plant (Crimson)

>66 - Barker Toads (Gold)

>68 - Bunyip (Green)

 

From then, I've only been leveling summoning through lamps, etc

[Cheat]

Turmoil is pretty instantaneous to be honest maybe the second hit you have the full boost, sometimes the first if you attacked. I am reasonably well off but turmoil did cost a fairly large amount of my bank I will probably for got extremes soon but was hoping for maybe a few summoning levels first for some good slaying and helping me boost my income slightly so as to be able to afford extremes more comfortably. However if you think the boost of extremes over supers is significant enough I would consider getting them first.

[LitterBug]

Turmoil is pretty instantaneous to be honest maybe the second hit you have the full boost, sometimes the first if you attacked. I am reasonably well off but turmoil did cost a fairly large amount of my bank I will probably for got extremes soon but was hoping for maybe a few summoning levels first for some good slaying and helping me boost my income slightly so as to be able to afford extremes more comfortably. However if you think the boost of extremes over supers is significant enough I would consider getting them first.

 

I recently got extremes and I can tell that my slayer tasks did go a lot faster.

I spent a good amount on cannonballs - so I've been using my cannon on any and every task that would allow for it.

I found out that for most of these tasks - a bunyip is useless (one of the three useful pouches you would unlock - the others being spirit terrorbird & war tortoise) since you're either in multi combat or the monsters just do too much damage.

 

However, bringing a bunyip or two can help you finish fire giant tasks/etc without banking but that's the only task I've gotten lately and didn't skip that a higher summoning level would be beneficial.

I also have a macaw and a herbicide for abberant spectre tasks but the exp gained via this method is almost nothing. I only do it since I can spare the extra two spots in my inventory.

[Dex]

A bunyip would be useful for dagannoth, fire giant, dusties, gargoyle, kalphite, nechryael, greater demons and wfs.

 

Slayer ring + war tort pouoch might be a better idea when cannoning abberent specs to bank tons of herbs in a short amount of time. War tort will also be useful for banking at black dragons.

 

Ext is +7% over supers so yea it is quite significant and it wiill before useful then turmoil on things like wfs.

 

One last thing, a chaotic rapier offers +23% in accuracy and +14% in accuracy, a much greater boost then turm(over piety) and ext(over supers).

[Tipsi]

I cant believe noone told you to do greaters yet.

 

Your stats are perfect for them.

 

and you'll be using whip as a weapon anyway... so you'll literally be risking nothing in the forinthry dungeon.

 

I think even if you have very bad luck with random pkers u can expect to average 100crimsons/hour there.

assuming u never see a pker ever, you can get about 180crimsons/hour

 

they're amazing, u just keep topping the cannon and hit the demons.

 

And pkers are pretty rare there.

 

you're not limited by not having extremes there too.

 

i think at your levels black demons are about 70-80 crimsons/hour just to compare.

 

I used to overload and cannon and turmoil my black demon tasks and I used to kill a maxed task (about 242) in just about 1 unicorn (I think 54 minutes), this is with close to maxed stats i could only just pull of the >100 crimsons an hour and with slayer helmet :P

[Quyneax]

I cant believe noone told you to do greaters yet.

 

Your stats are perfect for them.

 

and you'll be using whip as a weapon anyway... so you'll literally be risking nothing in the forinthry dungeon.

 

I think even if you have very bad luck with random pkers u can expect to average 100crimsons/hour there.

assuming u never see a pker ever, you can get about 180crimsons/hour

 

they're amazing, u just keep topping the cannon and hit the demons.

 

And pkers are pretty rare there.

 

you're not limited by not having extremes there too.

 

i think at your levels black demons are about 70-80 crimsons/hour just to compare.

 

I used to overload and cannon and turmoil my black demon tasks and I used to kill a maxed task (about 242) in just about 1 unicorn (I think 54 minutes), this is with close to maxed stats i could only just pull of the >100 crimsons an hour and with slayer helmet :P

Greater demons are kinda nice, but they are also a few thousand cannonballs per hour - you're talking 1m gp/hr in expenses on that (good ranged xp too of course).

 

I've done several hours of charm-gathering off-task with maxed gear at black demons (sw cape though) and 90s melees and I got 120 crims/3 ovl pretty easily, plus 50+ gold and a few green and blue. On task I did a task of ~250 in about 51 minutes, yakking ashes & storing another 28 in my yak.

 

I'm guessing 60% of your dps is from the cannon if you lure well, so if you lose 20% primary weapon dps it's actually only 8% difference in charm rates. Definitely over 100 crims/hr even at low stats.

 

@Dex: I'm assuming you mean 23% strength and 14% accuracy? That's not really correct, assuming maxed gear it's more like 133 strength bonus versus 152 strength bonus, or a 14% max hit increase, for attack much the same is true except that you get another +1 accuracy from the defender.

[Tipsi]

sorry quyneax maybe i was confusing black demons with dark beasts.

 

Yeah i used to always have like 10mins left on my unicorn after a very large black demons task, i think if i counted in doses less then 3 overloads.

 

anyways i doubt he can get anything near 120 crimsons per hour lol... but yeah proper luring means cannon hits about 3-6 times per spin on your black demon.

[Dex]

I seem to have a tendency to use bad numbers :angry: but even so, boost with chaotics is similiar to turmoil at black demons and still greater then extremes. (waits to be proven wrong about that :thumbsup: ).

[notasoupbowl]

Might want to try dharoking waterfiends <95 summ and off task.

I think I was getting 130 crims / h instead of 120 dharoking & finishing kills with zs.

I think I was extremes, piety, uni and ~95 atk/str.

[dukky]

Another alternative for charms now is cannoning greater demons in the forinthry dungeon (multicombat, though it is wilderness). It is slighltly risky but it's over 150 crims/hour and this was from a video of somone doing it quite poorly, so it could be over 200 crimsons per hour, I'm not sure on effigies or other charms though. Here's the video. I intend to try this the next time I slay.

[Alphanos]

Might want to try dharoking waterfiends <95 summ and off task.

I think I was getting 130 crims / h instead of 120 dharoking & finishing kills with zs.

I think I was extremes, piety, uni and ~95 atk/str.

 

Dharoking waterfiends without a unicorn or even a bunyip sounds like a terrible idea. It'd be a constant balance for soul split to keep up with increased damage due to lower mage defense, all the while trying to avoid your hitpoints either dropping too low or going too high.

 

Edit: In case it's gotten lost in the shuffle, the OP currently has level 42 summoning.

[Cheat]

Thanks for the many replies and really good advice, I will be cannoning black demons with the original advice given using dharoks sets but I may try out the other ideas soon, thanks for all the advice guys.