Fury vs. Salve (e)

[popchop]

edit: the maths in this post are a little bit off, so you can skip that part :P

 

Hi everyone, I've been an avid reader of topics in this section, more or less a lurker in the shadows. Thought I'd try and contribute for once to start a discussion on the choice of amulets of high level players during undead monster slayer tasks. with high level players I have maxed melee in mind.

 

My curiousity goes to the following: Abberent spectres, assuming you have a full slayer helmet you get +16.6% strenght and attack bonusses (invisible). The salve amulet (e) adds +20 % on attack and strength. at the bottom of this post I'll post a short comparison of my maths results.

 

now, the gear (and I'm going by personal choice):

 

Equipment A:

 

head: full slayer helm

cape: soul wars cape

top: proselyte hauberk

bottom: proselyte cuisse

boots: dragon boots

gloves: gloves (barrows)

weapon: whip

shield: dragon defender

ring: berserker ring (i)

necky: amulet of fury

 

provides the following relevant stats:

 

attack:

 

slash: +128

strength bonus: +120

prayer: +30

 

along with 99 attack and strength + extreme pots: maximum level would be 125

 

This given, we can calculate a max hit of approx.: 464 (including the *1.166 from the slayer helm)

 

Equipment B:

 

head: full slayer helm

cape: soul wars cape

top: proselyte hauberk

bottom: proselyte cuisse

boots: dragon boots

gloves: gloves (barrows)

weapon: whip

shield: dragon defender

ring: berserker ring (i)

necky: salve amulet (e)

 

provides the following relevant stats:

 

attack:

 

slash: +118

strength bonus: +112

prayer: +28

 

The calculated max hit with these bonusses would be: 456 (including the *1.2 from the salve amulet)

 

now, not very spectacular differences. however.... the salve amulet (e) also adds another 3.4% to the accuracy, meaning you would actually hit more often then with the amulet of fury. 3.4% doesn't seem much, but 3.4% of 125 (max boosted melee stat) is 129.25. it would be like a permanent +4.25 attack boost using a salve amulet over a fury amulet.

 

in short:

slayer helmet + amulet of fury: 125 att/str gives a max hit of 464 + 16.6% more accuracy // +30 prayer boost

slayer helmet + salve amulet (e): 125 att/str gives a max hit of 456 + 20% more accuracy // +28 prayer boost

 

a diffrence of 8 or in other words 1.72% when it comes to damage output opposed to the 3.4% diffrence in accuracy.

 

talking about being more efficient and quicker finishing of the slayer task, wouldnt a salve amulet (e) be the better choice?

 

~ Pops

 

edit: changed some values, thanks grimy_bunyip

[Sy_Accursed]

Unless I've some how overlooked a load of stuff slave (e) has been the standard gear for aberrant specs for years.

 

Also I believe you did the math wrong, Attack bonus and strength boosts from slayer and salve (iirc) act on your attack and strength levels, not the gear bonus. Opposed to accuracy and damage bonuses (like void).

Not sure on that though.

[ghjkl]

Cannon and titan do like 90% of the work anyway. The difference ends up being minimal; it is not worth the effort to switch gear for a 20 minute task.

[popchop]

Unless I've some how overlooked a load of stuff slave (e) has been the standard gear for aberrant specs for years.

 

Also I believe you did the math wrong, Attack bonus and strength boosts from slayer and salve (iirc) act on your attack and strength levels, not the gear bonus. Opposed to accuracy and damage bonuses (like void).

Not sure on that though.

 

Could be that salve ammy been standard for years, yet i've never seen people wearing them when i was doing slayer. thats why i thought i'd try figure it out with some numbers.

 

and my calcs are based on the levels, not the accuracy. however, i did mention the weapon accuracy as a side thing. the fury amulet also boosts the weapon accuracy bonus where the salve ammy doesn't. what effect this has on the actual accuracy of the hitsplashes (as in, how can it be put into a level boost bonus, like, +10 weapon accuracy equals +1 level boost?... no idea though, i have yet to see anyone figure out this mathematically) wich means yes, the calcs are innacurate.

 

:)

 

edit: typo

[popchop]

Cannon and titan do like 90% of the work anyway. The difference ends up being minimal; it is not worth the effort to switch gear for a 20 minute task.

 

true, but would u like a free +6 att boost or not? only effort it takes is instead of clicking on the fury amulet, it would be a click on the salve amulet as u withdraw it from the bank... >.>

 

the effect may be barely noticable, but hey it might save you having to hit a ennemie 15-20 times on a task of 200 monsters. thats 15-20 attack ticks saved, woohoo >.>

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Slayer helmet actually gives + 1/6 = 16.67% boost to damage and attack roll.

[popchop]

Slayer helmet actually gives + 1/6 = 16.67% boost to damage and attack roll.

 

really? :o where did you find that?

 

regardless,

 

slayer helmet + amulet of fury: 125 att/str gives a max hit of 457.7 + 15% more accuracy // +30 prayer boost

slayer helmet + salve amulet (e): 125 att/str gives a max hit of 456 + 20% more accuracy // +28 prayer boost

 

would become:

 

slayer helmet + amulet of fury: 125 att/str gives a max hit of 464 + 16.6% more accuracy // +30 prayer boost

slayer helmet + salve amulet (e): 125 att/str gives a max hit of 456 + 20% more accuracy // +28 prayer boost

 

a diffrence of 8 or in other words 1.72%.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Slayer helmet actually gives + 1/6 = 16.67% boost to damage and attack roll.

 

really? :o where did you find that?

there's a thread called max hit formula on the RSOF that mentioned it.

My personal data seems to indicate that the claim is correct.

[popchop]

Slayer helmet actually gives + 1/6 = 16.67% boost to damage and attack roll.

 

really? :o where did you find that?

there's a thread called max hit formula on the RSOF that mentioned it.

My personal data seems to indicate that the claim is correct.

 

 

excellent, i'll change it right away! thanks

[Quyneax]

I get 562 (fury) vs 554 max hit (same gear as above but with Bandos, also turmoil isn't at full boost) and the accuracy with a salve amulet is actually lower by a tiny amount. The fury seems to be better overall.

 

Also, I failed the calculations like 10 times <_<. Whip doesn't have agressive :P.

 

Edit: with totally maxed gear it's 632 vs 625 max hit, fury still more accurate.

[Articultural]

Doesn't the Salve amulet (e) not stack with a Slayer helm?

[Quyneax]

It doesn't stack but without the helmet you'll get killed by spectres.

[popchop]

I get 562 (fury) vs 554 max hit (same gear as above but with Bandos, also turmoil isn't at full boost) and the accuracy with a salve amulet is actually lower by a tiny amount. The fury seems to be better overall.

 

Also, I failed the calculations like 10 times <_<. Whip doesn't have agressive :P.

 

Heya, thanks for adding :)

 

if you finished the calcs, would you mind posting your calcs? am just as much intrested in the answer as the calcs that wer used :P

 

also, i havent used the turmoil boost or ultimate str boost armour. just what i personally use. i can recalc it too, see if we end up with the same answers.

[popchop]

Doesn't the Salve amulet (e) not stack with a Slayer helm?

 

it doesnt stack. but i'm intrested to see wheter the 5% att/str diffrence of the salve amulet outmatches the bonusses the fury amulet gives.

[Quyneax]

Max hit is: 5 + (level + 8 + style bonus)(gear bonus +64)/64 and max accuracy is the same. For level, I entered 125, multiplied by either 1.2 or 7/6, and multiplied by 1.15 for attack and 1.23 for strength (turmoil base boost). Style bonus is +1 level on attack and strength for controlled, +3 strength for agressive.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Max hit is: 5 + (level + 8 + style bonus)(gear bonus +64)/64 and max accuracy is the same. For level, I entered 125, multiplied by either 1.2 or 7/6, and multiplied by 1.15 for attack and 1.23 for strength (turmoil base boost). Style bonus is +1 level on attack and strength for controlled, +3 strength for agressive.

slayer helmet/salve amulet multiply your final attack/damage rolls bye 7/6, as opposed to multiplying your stats by 7/6. Not sure if you did that, you might have.

i actually calculated 548 for whip + fury, vs 540 for whip + salve (e)

[Quyneax]

Do they now? Last I heard it was level boost. Either way I used your calc Grimy, so I guess it used different formulas than I thought it did :P.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Do they now? Last I heard it was level boost. Either way I used your calc Grimy, so I guess it used different formulas than I thought it did :P.

hmmm ill double check my calc.

yeah something's off with it, i'll fix it later today

 

edit: yeah i forgot to add a setting for controlled attack styles, it's fixed now.

 

it's 548 with fury, 540 with salve (e)

so go with the fury.

[popchop]

Do they now? Last I heard it was level boost. Either way I used your calc Grimy, so I guess it used different formulas than I thought it did :P.

hmmm ill double check my calc.

yeah something's off with it, i'll fix it later today

 

edit: yeah i forgot to add a setting for controlled attack styles, it's fixed now.

 

it's 548 with fury, 540 with salve (e)

so go with the fury.

 

damage output-wise, yes the fury seems to be better with a 8 dmg lead.

 

however, my calcs are somewhat diffrent results and i can't figure out why <.< help me plz

 

bandos + fury

 

level: 125

 

str +126

 

slayer mask: *1.166

turmoil: *1.23

 

(5 + 134) * ((126 + 64)/64) (formula taken from Quyneax's post)

 

139 * 2.96875 = 412.65625

 

412.65625 * 1.23 = 507.5671875

 

507.5671875 * 1.166 = 591.823340625

 

 

bandos + salve:

 

level: 125

 

str +118

 

salve: *1.2

turmoil: *1.23

 

(5+ 134) * ((118 + 64)/64)

 

139 * 2.84375 = 395.28125

 

395.28125 * 1.23 = 486.1959375

 

486.19259375 * 1.2 = 583.435

 

 

591 with fury and 583 with salve ammy. maybe i missed something.....

 

edit: i stacked the slayer mask/salve ammy on top of the damage output after i calced the turmoil damage.

 

can it be added up just like that? or do these % bonusses somehow stack differently. or are they not level based but equipment-bonus based?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

turmoil is multiplied to your level and rounded down, it is not multiplied to the end damage roll.

also the +5 is added to the damage, it's not +5 to your strength level.

Last but not least i think you forgot to add +1 strength level for being on controlled attack style.

 

so rounddown(5 + (rounddown(125*1.23)+8+1)*(126+64)/64)

then multiply that by 7/6 and round down once again.

 

rinse repeat for salve (e)

 

also my calcs were with 120 and 112 strength bonus respectively, whereas your new calcs are with 126 and 118.

[popchop]

turmoil is multiplied to your level and rounded down, it is not multiplied to the end damage roll.

also the +5 is added to the damage, it's not +5 to your strength level.

Last but not least i think you forgot to add +1 strength level for being on controlled attack style.

 

so rounddown(5 + (rounddown(125*1.23)+8+1)*(126+64)/64)

then multiply that by 7/6 and round down once again.

 

rinse repeat for salve (e)

 

also my calcs were with 120 and 112 strength bonus respectively, whereas your new calcs are with 126 and 118.

 

 

i see what i did wrong, i used ur calcs (120 and 112) and ended up with the same results, thanks. :P

 

OK, so damage output wise the difference is 8 damage versus the 3.4% attack boost difference of the salve amulet....

[Quyneax]

Considering the accuracy you already have on abberant spectres I'm inclined to say the fury is still superior, +8 damage isn't huge of course but still over a percent.

[popchop]

Considering the accuracy you already have on abberant spectres I'm inclined to say the fury is still superior, +8 damage isn't huge of course but still over a percent.

 

very true. I am inclined to say that the difference is minimal. 1.7% more damage versus 3.4% more accuracy, they are both just about equally good.

 

Not bad for a free amulet though >.>

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Considering the accuracy you already have on abberant spectres I'm inclined to say the fury is still superior, +8 damage isn't huge of course but still over a percent.

 

very true. I am inclined to say that the difference is minimal. 1.7% more damage versus 3.4% more accuracy, they are both just about equally good.

 

Not bad for a free amulet though >.>

you also lose +10 attack bonus, you might not actually have better accuracy with the salve (e)

[popchop]

hmm, is it possible to express attack bonus from equipment into attack levels? like say 10 points in attack accuracy from equipment equals 1 attack level bonus? or is that still a mystery untold...?

 

because in the end, they both influence accuracy, so there has to be a link somewhere. if we can figure a way to measure this we could end with some nice calculations to prove wheter the loss of 10 accuracy points really matter.