The Back Room

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Personally, I would have shot Rush in that situation.

 

 

I would probably have tried reasoning with him first, then incarceration...then I would have just killed him.

 

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but when you are fiddling with a complicated system it is better for only one person's view to be represented...and actively working against each other only serves to ensure that bad outcomes are most likely.

[The_Mather1]

That's what almost every single one of the military personnel wants to do, but he's the only one who even has a remote chance of getting anything up and running.

[archimage_a]

That's what almost every single one of the military personnel wants to do, but he's the only one who even has a remote chance of getting anything up and running.

 

He is also the person most likely to get everyone killed.

Ergo, his risks outweigh the possible benefits.

Ergo, he must be stopped.

 

Also, they are not exactly on a limited timeframe. The ship has been operating for millions of years, having it fail immediately after they arrive isn't even vaguely realistic.

If you are going with the TV logic approach, then shooting him has no effect, since we would find a workaround...probably somehow connected to my death.

Or the fat kid.

 

 

 

Also, back in the real world, you poke something enough and you will either destroy it and learn from the mistakes, or you will make it work and learn from your successes.

Using him certainly has benefits, but the show would have made a lot more sense without him...given that all he really did was stand at the console and try to work out how it worked.

 

 

Then again, military personal in the Stargate Franchise are always portrayed as being as thick as two short planks...So I guess I would end up playing the Rush Character...In which case I would compromise, rather than try to force my way...since that way is the surest route of getting what I want.

Although I would probably have a narcisst complex, and thus would think I was always right, in which case I would end up getting shot.

 

 

As such we are back to where we started, the ridiculous nature of the situation...where there is absolutely no one even remotely capable of filling the leadership roll.

[The_Mather1]

The shift has been going around for millions of years with no one on board, the ship had no trouble on its own, but then they come in and it has to activate lifesupport and whatnot.

 

And Sheppard from SGA supposedly got into MENSA, he just likes playing stupid.

O'Neil might not be too bright, but he's mostly playing.

And in SGU they're mostly just people who were at the wrong place at the wrong time, but Young is smart enough to understand what only Rush can do and is capable of understanding some of Rush's "technobabble." Ronald Greer and Matthew Scott however are supposed to be like that, Matthew is mostly just moral for the military side, Greer follows orders no matter what he thinks.

[archimage_a]

And the life support fails within a few weeks...convienent.

 

And the ship is crashing into a star, oh noes! Clearly we must have arrived just before the suicide circuits activated.

 

Now we need to collect water...its a ship that can fly through space, collect heat energy from the inside of a star...but capturing Hydrogen and Oxygen(Which should be present in the core of stars) is clearly impossible.

 

The storylines themselves were not terrible, some of the episodes were even passable...but at the end of the story they had only got back to where they started from...there was no progression...no character development.

[The_Mather1]

If you'd just continue to watch you'd see that there is a reason for all the systems that are nominal, and character development happens mostly in the last half of Season 1 and in Season 2.

[archimage_a]

And if you just watch all of the Dr Who episodes you will find that the series in captivating, even if you(like me) dislike all the characters and see the stories as predictable and groan worthy.

 

 

Fact is I don't have the inclination to give Universe a chance because there are hundreds of shows out there...I only watched the 13 shows I watched because a guy I was interested in lent me a copy of them and my silly brain (He had a girlfriend) still tried to take an interest in the things he was interested in so we would have something to talk about.

[Nexaduro]

Doctor Who jumped the shark the moment Matt Smith said "Geranimo."

 

I prefer to think that the Tenth Doctor just died from radiation poisoning after all.

[archimage_a]

They so should have had Patrick Steward as the 11th Doctor. Would have been epic...

[Icuownage]

My argument is, Doctor who is still around while Stargate isn't, although a weak argument I stand by, and the fact Doctor who has been running longer as wel..

 

Anywho, I agree some of the effects of Doctor Who aren't amazing, and I don't really watch it for the special effects, if I wanted something for special effects I'd watch Avatar.

 

The story of Doctor Who is probably meant to be like the character, the Doctor, hard to follow and quirky. A lot of the time they use foreshadowing and Chekov's gun in the series so you have to be following the story a bit intentively otherwise you fall behind. The main thing I like about the story is that they always set themselves up for a good twist or stick some moral in there, they also try hard at character development (but I feel it's rather bad character development, for example Rory in the latest series is a clumsy man who gets scared easily, but on the last episode he talks down an entire ship of Cybermen and suddenly appears manly, which I feel was stupid). Also the main thing I love is that a lot of the aliens are stupid to the point of funny. Like again in the latest episode, the headless monks, their hoods look rather cool, but when they mentioned the 'papal mainframe' I couldn't help but laugh.

 

Although I have only watched like 4 episodes of stargate, and they were in no order (I just saw it on TV and was like "Eh what the hell") And I never got hooked to it.

[The_Mather1]

Stargate being put on a 3 year hold/shut down has nothing to do with the quality of the show, what happened was that MGM had too many economical problems and in their effort to attract a wider audience, took to much out of Universe, making many of the old fans lose interest while it failed to bring in the expected number of new ones. This caused the producer to give up hope, as such the two planned movies were scrapped as well.

[archimage_a]

Stargate being put on a 3 year hold/shut down has nothing to do with the quality of the show...took to much out of Universe, making many of the old fans lose interest while it failed to bring in the expected number of new ones.

Sounds like the quality of the show decreased. =P

 

 

But yeah, it is a weak arguement.

You look at something like Star Trek...or Star Wars between the two trilogies...and there is quite a substantive break, which has nothing to do with the quality of the shows.

 

 

And in SGU they're mostly just people who were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

This.

The whole story seems to have developed around Deus Ex Machina.

'We need to crack this code, oh wait, a teenager has the answers that have eluded the greatest minds we have to offer.'

'There is a gate to a ship flying through space, we should send a team of experts through, oh wait, the planet is under attack, we will have to go with this crew.'

'There is a gate, but we can't get back to our homeplanet or even home universe, fortunately we have magic crystals(Which have been used before, I know) which allows us to communicate with Earth'

'We have no control over this ship, but we can get food, get warmth and get light, but we can't steer it, nor can we interface with it beyond a basic level'

'There is a chair, probably linked to the ANA (Or whatever the acronym was) gene, which probably controls the ship. We have a vast number of viable test subjects, but obviously we can't plug any of them in.'

'We are on a planet where everyone is infected by a deadly virus carried by flying insects, fortunately there is a temporal anomoly which allows us to go back in time and save ourselves from the deadly virus.'

 

 

The story itself has no driving force (at least in the 13 episodes I watched) because it is basically 'We are hopelessly incapable of doing anything and are at the mercy of the ship.' The ship is not, noticably, sentient, so there is no interaction there.

 

Its kinda like the difference between a man walking a dog, and a dog that has its leach caught on a car's wing mirror.

One, perfectly natural to watch, even enjoyable. The other, painful to watch, and somewhat depressing if you can't do anything about it.

 

 

 

 

Ok, compare Stargate Universe to Star Trek Voyager.

Same basic premise...ship lost far away from home.

Voyager has:

Two different command crews, which have some degree of tension between them, but compromise for the greater good.

A ship that is controllable, but low on fuel, low on weapons, not designed for the mission they are doing.

A clear, achievable, goal (Though perhaps not for 70 years), with a long journey through uncharted space, which their mission is to explore.

 

Universe has:

One, noncohesive command crew, which is all tension, with little compromise.

A ship that isn't controllable, which is low on fuel, low on weapons, low on food, low on water, low on air, low on anything that might be remotely useful.

Two conflicting goals (Discover how to control the ship so that they can: Explore Space, Get Home in the shortest possible timeframe.)

 

 

The Voyager Premise is hopeful

The Universe Premise is woeful.

 

In Voyager you are inspired into thinking 'Hell, they might even be able to do it.' and so when the writers pull some magic out of their hats you go 'Hmmm, I guess my suspension of disbelief can stomach that.'

 

In Universe you come to the conclusion that they have no chance, so ever time they survive you just think 'Deus Ex Machina...'

 

Unless you are a hardcore Stargate follower than you go 'It is so hopeless, I hope they succeed.' allowing you to suspend your disbelief when the writers pull magic out of their hat.

[Nexaduro]

Good summary Archi 'ol pal. Stargate only ever makes me feel confused and depressed.

 

Mather, I think you have succumbed to fanboy-ism. Like me with Drowtales or Gilmore Girls.

[The_Mather1]

Stargate being put on a 3 year hold/shut down has nothing to do with the quality of the show...took to much out of Universe, making many of the old fans lose interest while it failed to bring in the expected number of new ones.

Sounds like the quality of the show decreased. =P

There's barely any of the old technology in use, and the only two examples of old technology has gotten new rules because one is a prototype, the other is an adaption.

 

 

'We need to crack this code, oh wait, a teenager has the answers that have eluded the greatest minds we have to offer.'

They found that teenager by putting the question in a game and that is a driving force behind some of the character development in Season 2.

'There is a gate to a ship flying through space, we should send a team of experts through, oh wait, the planet is under attack, we will have to go with this crew.'

They were supposed to go back to Earth, Rush however decided to dial Destiny instead.

'We have no control over this ship, but we can get food, get warmth and get light, but we can't steer it, nor can we interface with it beyond a basic level'

Changes in the very beginning of Season 2

'There is a chair, probably linked to the ANA (Or whatever the acronym was) gene, which probably controls the ship. We have a vast number of viable test subjects, but obviously we can't plug any of them in.'

The ship is older than the ATA gene, the chair is a database, all except one of which are known to slowly kill people because their brains can't fit all the information.

'We are on a planet where everyone is infected by a deadly virus carried by flying insects, fortunately there is a temporal anomoly which allows us to go back in time and save ourselves from the deadly virus.'

Virus is not from the insects, temporal anomaly was the reason they got stuck on the planet in the first place.

 

The ship is not, noticably, sentient, so there is no interaction there.

Wrong.

 

In Universe you come to the conclusion that they have no chance, so ever time they survive you just think 'Deus Ex Machina...'

They always have some chance, but even then a few deaths are to be expected.

[archimage_a]

Wrong.

Point to your evidence in the first 13 shows.

 

They always have some chance, but even then a few deaths are to be expected.

Unless you are a hardcore Stargate follower than you go 'It is so hopeless, I hope they succeed.' allowing you to suspend your disbelief when the writers pull magic out of their hat.

 

Changes in the very beginning of Season 2

In other words...when they identify the format isn't working...

 

They found that teenager by putting the question in a game and that is a driving force behind some of the character development in Season 2.

They were supposed to go back to Earth, Rush however decided to dial Destiny instead.

The ship is older than the ATA gene, the chair is a database, all except one of which are known to slowly kill people because their brains can't fit all the information.

Virus is not from the insects, temporal anomaly was the reason they got stuck on the planet in the first place.

A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved/created with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

[The_Mather1]

Wrong.

Point to your evidence in the first 13 shows.

The ship stopped within reach of planets which had what they needed (yes, that is the Destiny's doing, not "coincidence").

 

Changes in the very beginning of Season 2

In other words...when they identify the format isn't working...

It is caused by events, it doesn't happen suddenly.

 

They found that teenager by putting the question in a game and that is a driving force behind some of the character development in Season 2.

They were supposed to go back to Earth, Rush however decided to dial Destiny instead.

The ship is older than the ATA gene, the chair is a database, all except one of which are known to slowly kill people because their brains can't fit all the information.

Virus is not from the insects, temporal anomaly was the reason they got stuck on the planet in the first place.

A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved/created with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

It is not a deus ex machina when.

1 The plot starts at that event.

2 The problem is furthered, not solved or created.

3 The solution is more complex than the problem, which was never created and never fully solved.

4 When the problem is solved through a lot of work and the use of a known effect.

[archimage_a]

It is not a deus ex machina when.

You are treating stuff said in show as gospel truth...So this is like saying:

Person A: 'God did it' is a Deus Ex Machina.

Person B: But God did do it.

Person A: But God doesn't exist.

Person B: Yes he does.

Person A: But how to you explain [Concept].

Person B: God did it.

Person A: 'God did it' is a Deus Ex Machina.

 

 

 

And so these arguements degenerate.

Fact is, you don't like Dr Who, I don't like Stargate.

Unless you plan to call a crusade then I don't see a reason to continue.

[The_Mather1]

I'm not saying it... whatever saying god did it would be... I'm saying the first one isn't a plot device since the plot hadn't begun yet, the rest didn't happen that way or those weren't the circumstances.

[archimage_a]

And I am disagreeing. Circle of Life.

[Grim_]

I'm kind of bored and since I have roughly 1000+ dollars on my hands (profit from selling bicycles, whee) I'm starting up a summer project. That is to say, a Blood Angels army.

 

HQ-

Librarian w/ jump pack, Sword of Sanguinius, The Blood Lance - 125

 

Elites-

Chaplian w/ jump pack, infernus pistol- 140 points

Furioso Librarian dreadnought w/ Sword of Sanguinius, Wings of Sanguinius, drop pod- 210 points

Sanguinary Priest x3 w/ jump pack, infernus pistol- 285 points

 

Troops-

Death Company x5 w/ infernus pistol -115 points

Death Company Dreadnought w/ blood talons- 125 points

Assault Squad w/10 marines 2 infernus pistol, power weapon - 235 points

Assault Squad w/10 marines 2 infernus pistol, power weapon - 235 points

 

Fast Attack-

Vanguard Veteran Squad X5 w/ jump packs -165 points

Vanguard Veteran Squad X5 w/ jump packs -165 points

 

Heavy Support-

StormRaven w/ TL multi meltas, TL lascannons- 200 points

 

Total- 2000 points

 

The Death Company, Chaplain and the DC dread all go in the Storm Raven and use it to quickly drop them in so they can assault the next turn, the Vanguard Veterans drop in and assault priority targets on the first turn before dying messily while the rest of my forces drop in (either with jump packs or drop pods) behind cover if possible and assault the next turn. After it has dropped off its assault cargo the Storm Raven will act as mobile anti tank to help with the infernus pistols (mini meltas basically) and the blood lance (From the librarian).

 

I'm mainly doing this because a surprising number of people at my FLGS play 40k and I've had a chance to test this list out using VASSAL 40k. On a related note, did you know that the bastards that are GW don't sell most of their bits (things used to customize units, like say an infernus pistol) outside of other units? Thankfully ebay exists, but still its irritating as hell. At any rate, if I'm happy with the results of the painting I will post pictures (I'm thinking of either flesh tearers or pre heresy world eaters, I haven't decided which).

[The_Mather1]

And I am disagreeing. Circle of Life.

The second was already a problem (Lucien Alliance attacking), Rush made it worse (dialing Destiny instead of Earth).

The third was always a problem to access (the one to access it always dies), they didn't solve it but they worked themselves halfway around the problem (using a buffer to slow down the connection to a billionth of its intended speed).

The fourth was a problem right away (unstable wormhole), though there are only two possible reasons for the problem (improbable; unstable power supply, probable; wormhole loops through solar flare and back to the past).

[archimage_a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc

[Corvus]

And I am disagreeing. Circle of Life.

The second was already a problem (Lucien Alliance attacking), Rush made it worse (dialing Destiny instead of Earth).

The third was always a problem to access (the one to access it always dies), they didn't solve it but they worked themselves halfway around the problem (using a buffer to slow down the connection to a billionth of its intended speed).

The fourth was a problem right away (unstable wormhole), though there are only two possible reasons for the problem (improbable; unstable power supply, probable; wormhole loops through solar flare and back to the past).

 

I am not very well versed in the subject but wouldn't it be far easier to solve all the problems using the Magic of Friendship?

 

Put Directly, why on Earth are you having Fanboy debates in the Tavern? Especially when trying to use real world logic to explain works of fiction ends up not working as demonstrated by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muVfidujxRg&feature=player_embedded

[Nexaduro]

How's my new signature? :D

[Icuownage]

It's debateable if I like your old one compared to this one.