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The New Runescape Client ~ NXT (a C++ Client) - Developer Blog


Miss Lioness

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I was saying mostly because current Runescape client has the game data on Jagex's servers and you have to load the data for new areas whenever you go to a location that hasn't loaded yet, but if the game was downloaded on your computer (standalone downloadable client), then you wouldn't have load times as areas would be able to be loaded before you even get to them.

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their earlier excuse for not having a standalone client was that they didn't want to give anybody an unfair advantage, but frankly we're kind of past that point considering that people still lag anyway

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their earlier excuse for not having a standalone client was that they didn't want to give anybody an unfair advantage, but frankly we're kind of past that point considering that people still lag anyway

Nearly everyone can download the client, people will choose not to have an unfair advantage. It just seems like an excuse to not to work on it. They had the same excuse when Runescape only was about 800x600, not wanting to give fullscreen because it will give better computers an unfair advantage (I don't see the advantage, in fact I see many pro efficient people work with small windows because of less mouse travel). You could use that argument if, for example a whole operating system would not be able to download it, or if only computers with high specs could download it.

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We're at the point now where affording a computer capable of running this newer Runescape is well within possible with a basic tower/laptop as most of the hardware can support Java/C++ with ease like this.

 

The CURRENT version however has gone down TF2's path and just turned into an unoptimised piece of shit where salvage is almost impossible if they continue that path.

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I think part of the optimisation issue with Java vs C++ is it isn't as good at adapting to different hardware/driver setups in terms of self optimising.

 

For example:

My macbook with more than enough specs for rs can barely run it because Java and mac = fail.

My super duper desktop that is still way ahead of most high end gaming specs runs perfectly without flaw.

My gaming laptop that actually has better specs than my desktop and only falls behind on GPU minutely cause built in stead of card gets laggy and struggles a bit at max graphics - even though 'proper' games with higher specs run perfectly)

My media box that barely has any gpu at all cause I remote in to it runs it perfectly.

 

By rights of pure a simple specs the 1st three should all run max graphics easily, whilst the 4th should struggle a bit. But lol nope java throws a wrench in that.

 

It's like, to put it very crudely, Java is told 'render x by doing y so Java will render x by doing y no matter the cost to cpu, gpu, ram etc. C++ is told render x then will look at the cpu, gpu, ram etc and go well the best way to do that here is y, so I'll do that.

 

Not saying its impossible to make Java work right, but to my understanding you have to do lots of faff and work arounds to make Java do it nicely where as C++ just kinda does it anyway without extra instruction almost.

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In regards to graphics, Java has little impact on the graphics ability of any game. RuneScape's rendering pipeline is terribly inefficient (you can see it yourself by running it through apitrace). There are so many redundant and contradicting calls that affect graphics state it's insane.

 

The reason is that the GPU does all the work (in brief). The CPU, at best, pushes data to the GPU (RuneScape does it way too often...). You can get 10k+ draw calls in any language (unless the native transition is horribly inefficient, which is not the case with e.g., Java or C#) on a decent GPU with little effort optimizing the behavior.

 

RuneScape is just a pile of spaghetti and is generally CPU bound for various technical reasons. They could, in all honesty, have done the same work in Java. But Java is not fit for consumers anymore. As the dev log noted, it's being deprecated by common browsers.

 

It's like, to put it very crudely, Java is told 'render x by doing y so Java will render x by doing y no matter the cost to cpu, gpu, ram etc. C++ is told render x then will look at the cpu, gpu, ram etc and go well the best way to do that here is y, so I'll do that.

I know you are trying to generalize it but that's not at all how it works, even from a general standpoint.

 

JNI allows Java to explicitly use the GPU. This is what RuneScape does. You always use the GPU to render. RuneScape is not so much bound by rendering on 'gaming computers' as it is by the CPU.

 

C++ is a native language, it does not just run on the GPU to divide up work. It's not smart or knowing. The architecture of a standard processor is completely different from the graphics architecture. You can cross compile a subset of C++, but it's just that: a subset.

 

I'm sure Jagex employees aren't stupid. They will hopefully make use of the CPU cache by using proper allocation strategies and algorithms (i.e., make the engine operate on data, thus avoiding the cost of virtual dispatch and such). They will hopefully make use of increasingly multicore CPUs by task pooling or some such mechanism where work can be divided between cores. And their rendering pipeline better be optimized for modern architectures.

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^I don't have much knowledge of these things, but if what you are saying is true I still don't get why macs would be worse of than windows (really worse of), with better specs. I would assume that it is the software (Java) being incompatible with mac, or at least that Java asks different things from a mac than from a windows.

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