Did you say free con AND smithing xp?! Version 1.3 CLEARER!!

[primadog]

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

Great job on analyzing and correcting my raw data. I agree that my MAS stat is on the low side. Certainly, I have not learned all the time-saving techiques and avoiding misclickings. I believe your calculations are more correct than mine.

 

 

 

Once you have the numbers finalized, I wouldn't be surprised if this guide is tipit-worthy.

 

 

 

Conclusions:

 

 

 

Using Demon Butler is a must for larders, efficiency is increased by over 200% (25 to 69) in comparison /w using the cook as servant. Meanwhile, MAS only gain a minor boast of ~20% (82 to 96) from utilizing demon butler in comparison to cook.

 

 

 

Time saving techniques, such as sending out servant before utilizing all the oak planks can increase efficiency over 30% ( reduce 10-20sec / round).

 

 

 

a few minor note:

 

 

 

 

10 minutes / 48+(5x2) x 8 = 82 mas's max per 10 minute period

 

 

 

 

I don't understand why only 2 MAS is made in the cycle? The cook can hold 16, so wouldn't 8 MAS be made instead of (2+3) = 5?

 

 

 

 

10 minutes / 26+(5x11) x 13 = 96 mas's max per 10 minute period

 

Larders:

 

 

 

 

same question for the 11. The demon butler can hold 26, but we need to have 7 space taken by: hammer, saw, gp, plank note, mith large, mith kite, mith body. Wouldn't we sent the demon butler out for 20 items?

 

 

 

 

 

One last thing, for making larders /w demon butler, it's only possible to finish 2 larders by the time he returns. So it's necessary to add +5sec to each round:

 

 

 

10 min / 26+(5x1) * 3 = 58 larder max per 10 minute period

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you like, I'll double check the values for you, but I believe the data is true and correct. Armed with this, I believe you can finalize your guide with the true cost/benefit of training with MAS and Larder.

 

 

 

PS great guide, glad I can help in some way.

[Danyo]

not that this shouldn't be posted here, it's a great tip, but when it starts sliding down the pages, this should definately (sp?) be put in the archive of wisdom.

[nyyankees588]

although that made me zone out extremely :oops: it was very interesting i think i might just have to try this :anxious:

[RAHK]

a few minor note:

 

 

 

 

10 minutes / 48+(5x2) x 8 = 82 mas's max per 10 minute period

 

 

 

 

I don't understand why only 2 MAS is made in the cycle? The cook can hold 16, so wouldn't 8 MAS be made instead of (2+3) = 5?

 

 

 

 

10 minutes / 26+(5x11) x 13 = 96 mas's max per 10 minute period

 

Larders:

 

 

 

 

same question for the 11. The demon butler can hold 26, but we need to have 7 space taken by: hammer, saw, gp, plank note, mith large, mith kite, mith body. Wouldn't we sent the demon butler out for 20 items?

 

 

 

 

 

One last thing, for making larders /w demon butler, it's only possible to finish 2 larders by the time he returns. So it's necessary to add +5sec to each round:

 

 

 

10 min / 26+(5x1) * 3 = 58 larder max per 10 minute period

 

 

 

I editted out everything that I agreed with for space, lol. This page is already massive enough. I do appreciate the help, btw. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Anywho, I was making the assumption that you could make 3 things instead of 2 with a cook (so 3 then 2 for time and then 3 again) and 1 instead of 2 with the demon (1 11 and 1). If you can actually make 2 with the demon then your figures are correct (and I am pretty sure that you can but didn't want to overestimate). I haven't tested the cook but I would bet that you could easily get 3 since I can almost get a third up with a butler.

 

 

 

I have reached my math limit on this, lol. The sum of it all is that you can save a huge portion of the cost of 99 con by using the best armor stand you can make, oak logs, and a cook while you can get there faster with oak larders, oak planks, and a demon butler.

 

 

 

Ok, just a little math:

 

 

 

10k for demon, 3k for cook = 70% savings

 

Rough paydays for larders 834, rmas/cwas 987 = 5,379,000 gp SAVED

 

500gp per plank, 300gp per log planked (50 for oak log) = 40% savings

 

108,530,058 cost in planks for 99, 47,358,600 cost in logs = 61,171,458 gp SAVED

 

120 xp per 2 planks, Rmas/Cw3as's 165 xp = 37.5% savings

 

8.33 gp per xp, 3.64 gp per xp = 4.69 gp per xp savings

 

120 xp, Adding smith 190 xp = 58.3% savings

 

8.33 gp per xp, 3.16 gp per xp = 5.17 gp per xp savings

 

Total value of free smithing xp possible = 18,410,656 SAVED

 

 

 

Totals:

 

5,379,000 gp saved on workers, 61,171,458 gp saved on planking logs, and 18,410,656 gp in free smithing value.

 

Total value saved = 84,961,114 gp

 

Total cost for 99 con is 2,961,000 gp for workers and 47,358,600 gp for logs and planking costs.

 

Total cost for 99 con with rmas' = 50,319,600 gp

 

Total percent saved = 62.8%

 

 

 

Larders are 630 per hour using the most expensive method. Total larders needed is 27,133 so total time is 43 hours. Rmas are 492 per hour using the cheapest method. Total time is 139 hours. 69% difference in speed minus the 62.8% savings leaves 6.2%. Don't forget the time vs. xp/gp rate that I mentioned before (if you can make 1.071 gp an hour and smith 1.2k iron bars into knives and sell them an hour then consider larders). This means that you need to ask yourself the following question:

 

 

 

Is it worth 84,961,114 gp to be 6.2% more efficient with larders? :twisted:

[primadog]

hurah, RAHK triumphs again!

 

 

 

Your calculations match exactly with mine, just to augment your data a little:

 

 

 

To get 13m construction exp, you will spent the following (at 100% efficiency):

 

 

 

with oak LOGS, cook

 

mith mas 181hrs 67m gp 5.1 gp/xp 2.4m smithing exp

 

addy mas 163hrs 60m gp 4.6gp /xp 2.2m smithing exp

 

rune mas 148hrs 55m gp 4.2gp/xp 2.0m smithing exp

 

 

 

with oak LOGS, demon butler

 

larder 78hrs 88m gp 6.7gp/xp 0.0m smithing exp

 

 

 

with oak PLANKs, cook

 

mith mas 157hrs 101m gp 7.8 gp/xp 2.4m smithing exp

 

addy mas 141hrs 91m gp 7.0gp /xp 2.2m smithing exp

 

rune mas 129hrs 82m gp 6.3gp/xp 2.0m smithing exp

 

 

 

with oak PLANKS, demon butler

 

larder 45hrs 120m gp 9.2gp/xp 0.0m smithing exp

[Lord-kain1]

Larders are 630 per hour using the most expensive method. Total larders needed is 27,133 so total time is 43 hours. Rmas are 492 per hour using the cheapest method. Total time is 139 hours. 69% difference in speed minus the 62.8% savings leaves 6.2%. Don't forget the time vs. xp/gp rate that I mentioned before (if you can make 1.071 gp an hour and smith 1.2k iron bars into knives and sell them an hour then consider larders). This means that you need to ask yourself the following question:

 

 

 

Firstly i'd liek to say I'm all into the penny pinching/ optimal levle of doing everything. However i think your math is off on this. There is a 96 hour difference beween between using Larders and using armor stands. In that amount of time a person could get 500k an hour, fairly common using multipul skills, which would bring about 48M difference. Admitidly not everyone can do this but on the same note, most of the people that cant; really cant afford to dump that much cash into a skill to gain 99 in it; and have no way to recoup the cost upfront. Also the ones who could benifit the most out of the armour stands would already be 99 smithing, making the bonus smithing exp there none needed\redundent. The Idea has merrit and would definitly be an option for someone that has a very limited income and wanted to get to a certin lvl.

 

 

 

Just my two cents but i look forward to seeing your other ideas :)

 

 

 

LK1

[RAHK]

Larders are 630 per hour using the most expensive method. Total larders needed is 27,133 so total time is 43 hours. Rmas are 492 per hour using the cheapest method. Total time is 139 hours. 69% difference in speed minus the 62.8% savings leaves 6.2%. Don't forget the time vs. xp/gp rate that I mentioned before (if you can make 1.071 gp an hour and smith 1.2k iron bars into knives and sell them an hour then consider larders). This means that you need to ask yourself the following question:

 

 

 

Firstly i'd liek to say I'm all into the penny pinching/ optimal levle of doing everything. However i think your math is off on this. There is a 96 hour difference beween between using Larders and using armor stands. In that amount of time a person could get 500k an hour, fairly common using multipul skills, which would bring about 48M difference. Admitidly not everyone can do this but on the same note, most of the people that cant; really cant afford to dump that much cash into a skill to gain 99 in it; and have no way to recoup the cost upfront. Also the ones who could benifit the most out of the armour stands would already be 99 smithing, making the bonus smithing exp there none needed\redundent. The Idea has merrit and would definitly be an option for someone that has a very limited income and wanted to get to a certin lvl.

 

 

 

Just my two cents but i look forward to seeing your other ideas :)

 

 

 

LK1

 

 

 

I got tired of doing every calculation 6 times, lol. The point of using the best possible mas vs. the fastest possible larder path was to illustrate the vast gp savings. If you calc the savings vs. the time it costs you 84mil to be only 6% more "efficient". What you did not factor in is the fact that you would actually need to make 1mil+ an hour AND smith 1.2k iron bars into knives and sell them in another hour. So 40 odd hours of 1mil+ gp an hour plus 40 odd hours of 1.2k iron bars into knives and selling. It all depends on which ones you can make and personal preference though, of course. :wink:

 

 

 

The people that I think will get the most benefit from this and will use it are:

 

 

 

1. 99 smithers or Gold CW Armor owners.

 

2. 28+ con folk who can't afford a lot of con gp drain. (cw1as, most likely)

 

3. 68+ smithers that don't mind the loss of time vs. the free smithing and con xp.

 

 

 

I am number 3 and a small portion of players are as well. I would assume number 1 to be very low. I think the vast majority who benefit from this tactic are those whose combat level is 20-80ish, don't have a load of disposable income, and need to pinch every penny that they get AKA number 2. A large portion of tip's community and a small portion of rs' will likely prefer larders due to the fact that they are faster for most who have a lowish smithing level. Basically, if you do not have 68 smithing or at least white cw armor and can afford the cost of 99 con then larders are your best choice.