Is faith a virtue?

[Adam007]

I was watching a video Richard Dawkins was on. He was talking about faith. He said that one of the problems we're faced with is that children from an early age are taught that faith is a virtue. Faith is basically accepting something to be true without needing evidence. Now please don't take this as a religion thread - I don't want it going there. I'm solely asking the question: should faith be considered a virtue?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He went on to explain how faith causes so many problems in the world, mostly with extremists. Extremists blindly accept a notion like suicide bombing resulting in getting tons of virgins in an afterlife. I'm not talking only about extremists, just asking the question whether or not children should be taught that it's a good thing to be taught not to need proof of something to believe in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously for religion you need faith - but the problem I see is that this carries on to other things, like the common saying, "Come on! Have some faith!" Or people just accepting things without any proof - aside from religion. Maybe the world would be a better place if people were taught to question things and seek out truth instead of believing propaganda and advertisements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know I'm bouncing all of the place with ideas in an unorganized matter as usual, but another point is the Holocaust. In middle eastern countries, many people are brainwashed to think the Holocaust never occurred - most haven't even heard of it. They obviously accept this. If someone was to say that it has occurred, they would argue against it without any proof on other side. Only faith in what they've heard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So back to the original question. Should faith be considered a virtue? I know I've giving tons of argument to one side, and I'd like to hear some opposing ideas.

[magekillr]

most definately. without faith and hope, why would i continue living? i wouldn't want to...it's vry important

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

everyone would be a scene or emo kid walking around complaining about how much pain life is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we need faith and hope

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

faith doesn't cause those things...insecurity and hatred do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that's like saying alcohol causes drunk driving accidents

[Adam007]

I think faith and hope are important for people who are struggling in life, but for people who aren't, I don't see how faith and hope would keep you living?

[magekillr]

I think faith and hope are important for people who are struggling in life, but for people who aren't, I don't see how faith and hope would keep you living?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well, i never was the greatest goalkeeper at my high school...we were the best team in the state 2 years running...so i guess i can't complain. but i never started, but did i ever give up at practice? na, i kept having hope that eventually my coach would put me in or give me 2nd string..and it finally paid off

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so i feel in the beginning every1 needs faith ad hope to make it somewhere...unless you're a spoiled 16 year old on mtv having a show about your birthday party that costs more than my house

[Adam007]

 

I think faith and hope are important for people who are struggling in life, but for people who aren't, I don't see how faith and hope would keep you living?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well, i never was the greatest goalkeeper at my high school...we were the best team in the state 2 years running...so i guess i can't complain. but i never started, but did i ever give up at practice? na, i kept having hope that eventually my coach would put me in or give me 2nd string..and it finally paid off

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so i feel in the beginning every1 needs faith ad hope to make it somewhere...unless you're a spoiled 16 year old on mtv having a show about your birthday party that costs more than my house

 

 

 

Well in that case you have evidence. You had a goal to work to, and you knew if you reached a certain level you could get there. The difference in this case was a level of certainty you had. You knew if you would reach a goal, an end result would happen.

[Astralinre]

Most of what we accept as true, we accept because of faith in authority. I have faith in my science text book, so I accept as true what it says about the orbits of the planets, even though I'll likely never observe them myself. I have faith in my history text book, so I accept as true that Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States, even though I'll likely never verify it myself. I accept that T.S. Elliot wrote Murder in the Cathedral, because I have faith in the publisher and my English teachers to tell me correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since so much of what we "know," we accept by faith, faith is certainly important to function in the real world. This is not to say that we shouldn't question our sources or that we should forgoe reason. However, we cannot verify everything for ourselves. If you do not accept by faith what other sources tell you, then you are left with no knowledge but what your narrow range of experience has given you. While some may be fine with believing only their few experiences, I find it impractical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In short, I do believe faith is a virtue, because most of what we know, we know because of faith in authority, and if we reject faith as a way of knowing, we find that we know very little. We need knowledge to function in society, therefore we need faith.

[Abyssalwhip]

actually it has been proven that some people with cancer who have hope live longer or just plain live while people who dont just... DIE

[Adam007]

actually it has been proven that some people with cancer who have hope live longer or just plain live while people who dont just... DIE

 

 

 

They're hoping because there's reason to. What you said alone is evidence for having a reason to believe that you can make it to help through cancer. The majority of people know that in cases of struggle, hoping helps on a psychological level, which translates to a physical level. Obviously if you give up you have less of a chance of making it than someone who is trying to get through it. Again, the difference is the evidence.

 

 

 

Astra, you made an excellent point, and I'd like to try to address it, but I've got to get to sleep now. Later I'll see what I can do. :P

[Astralinre]

Astra, you made an excellent point, and I'd like to try to address it, but I've got to get to sleep now. Later I'll see what I can do. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm about to log off as well, but I look foward to discussing it with you later. :)

[Elphinstone]

Well, faith is a big thing. It's not only believing in something you can't confirm, It's a single minded devotion to something you can't confirm. Whether or not you are believing in a god, or if your beloved girlfriend will say yes... ( )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, i think faith is something that should be taught. What i don't believe is that faith in something should be taught. That's what creates all the problems we have today. People teaching faith in a god, or an unacheivable goal. What we have to teach is faith itself, and how to use it. It's a powerful tool when you sue it right, but if it twisted beyond your control, you may lose yourself in it. That's when we get terrorists and murderers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that people should have free will, and be able to put their faith where they want it, without having to be herded in a pen and have their lives micromanaged by a possibly non-existent being.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Faith is a virtue only as long as we make it. As soon as our faith turns to ambition, and we lose sight of what got us on the track in the first place, that's when everyhting goes wrong. That happened with the Crusades, the Roman Empire, and every war that has happened since. To higlight my point, the Roman Empire started with a group of people believing and having faith in the fact that they could unite all nations under one banner. But, as time passed and the empire grew larger, it was not 'The Roman Banner', it was 'My Banner'. The Roman Empire lost sight of it's source and collapsed. It also happens when the object of faith is a living being, like Alexander the Great. When he died, his empire crashed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now these are all big pictures, but if one person can have that effect on an empire of millions, then you see what faith can do if twisted. Another example, Hitler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, I believe that children should be taught that faith is a virtue, only as long as they allow it to be, and to keep their mind free if their faith changes from belief, to utter devotion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Elphinstone

[Nadril]

The bigest thing is that I see faith getting tossed around a bit differently usualy:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

usualy you hear faith like "have some faith in your self man!", which, bassicly means "Just try hard and work towards your goal.".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not telling you to blindly follow something without asking questions, but its just more of trying to get the person encouraged. You than could talk about faith in the actual way it is ment to be, beliving in something even though you do not have proof of it. Having faith in god or faith that "x is right" is what "faith" actualy is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having gotten that out of the way, I'd have to say that the first "deffinition" of faith is more of a virtue, while the second is just that: faith. If you have faith in something, great, but it should be taught that you should generaly always do your "own" research at the least to find out what is true and not true, or what suits you best.

[jak722]

If you believe and trust other people, then yes, its a very nice virtue. O:)

[BlueLancer]

If you believe and trust other people, then yes, its a very nice virtue. O:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You must live in ... :P That's not exactly the best possible advice in today's world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

usualy you hear faith like "have some faith in your self man!", which, bassicly means "Just try hard and work towards your goal.".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. It's not really a 'belief', but knowledge that if you work towards it, you can achieve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

most definately. without faith and hope, why would i continue living? i wouldn't want to...it's vry important

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't "need" faith and hope to live. If you know how to achieve your goals, you work towards them and achieve them, instead of just hoping that a lottery ticket will one day fly in front of you and you hit the jackpot.

[jak722]

 

If you believe and trust other people, then yes, its a very nice virtue. O:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You must live in ... :P That's not exactly the best possible advice in today's world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That wasn't an advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes I do live in rainbowland at the moment. Its called University Residence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of people from all walks of life from every corner of the world in here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they're all nice. :D

[magekillr]

 

most definately. without faith and hope, why would i continue living? i wouldn't want to...it's vry important

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't "need" faith and hope to live. If you know how to achieve your goals, you work towards them and achieve them, instead of just hoping that a lottery ticket will one day fly in front of you and you hit the jackpot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes...you work towards and acheive them like my soccer example. but without my faith and hope of getting the position...where would my motivation have been? no where...i waoulda been like "im never gonna get it...what's the point in trying"

[insane]

Let's not confuse faith with hope, because I'm seeing that done a bit.

[assassin_696]

I don't think that you need faith to live and survive. But faith in something that we can't necessarily prove (like God) often comes to us in times of difficulty and need. There's no doubt that having faith when times get rough is useful, and yes a virtue. However, having faith when times are good to me is more of a bonus, not needed, but nice all the same. But in all cases faith should be something that you come round to and have of your own self reasoning, not because it's been drilled into you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's good to question and not blindly accept what we are shown up to a point. However if we were skeptical about absolutely everything I think life would lose whatever little magic it still holds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you were a child, if you didn't accept Santa Clause and wanted incontrovertible proof for his existence and every single child did that, I think Christmas would lose a lot of it's magic. I know it's a fairly insignificant example in the big scheme of humanity, but in terms of simple happiness I think having faith in things like that is very important. Of course when we do get older we start to question our faith in jolly old Saint Nick, but if i'm honest, I wish on some level that I still had the innocence to believe in him.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

Obviously for religion you need faith - but the problem I see is that this carries on to other things, like the common saying, "Come on! Have some faith!" Or people just accepting things without any proof - aside from religion. Maybe the world would be a better place if people were taught to question things and seek out truth instead of believing propaganda and advertisements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Faith is one of those words which mean different things depending on the context (like the word 'theory', which means opposite things). It is important to have faith (trust, confidence etc.) in people and things in order to live reasonable lives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However faith (belief in something not based in proof) should be something best kept for things which are trivial (having faith that the next card in a friendly game of poker will give you a full house) or for things which can be proven in the foreseeable future. Having faith that a fusion reactor is a economically viable source of power is significantly different to having faith that Elvis is coming back with the U.F.O's.

[issy2]

I think all children should be taught or at least encouraged, to question. Otherwise you could basically believe in anything someone told you, and I don't hold that as a 'good' thing. If you never made any beliefs or choices for yourself, who's life are you living? Not yours.

[BlueTear]

Most of what we accept as true, we accept because of faith in authority. I have faith in my science text book, so I accept as true what it says about the orbits of the planets, even though I'll likely never observe them myself. I have faith in my history text book, so I accept as true that Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States, even though I'll likely never verify it myself. I accept that T.S. Elliot wrote Murder in the Cathedral, because I have faith in the publisher and my English teachers to tell me correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since so much of what we "know," we accept by faith, faith is certainly important to function in the real world. This is not to say that we shouldn't question our sources or that we should forgoe reason. However, we cannot verify everything for ourselves. If you do not accept by faith what other sources tell you, then you are left with no knowledge but what your narrow range of experience has given you. While some may be fine with believing only their few experiences, I find it impractical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In short, I do believe faith is a virtue, because most of what we know, we know because of faith in authority, and if we reject faith as a way of knowing, we find that we know very little. We need knowledge to function in society, therefore we need faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Faith is the belief that is not based on proof (... I looked it up and chose what seemed like the most appropriate meaning for this discussion). Is it really faith in authority, or is it the reasoning that there is no reason for the science textbook to be wrong (poor example really, since science textbooks in some subjects sometimes propagate common misunderstandings rather than the proper knowledge of the subject at hand). The history textbook for example... Do you really accept what the book says because you trust the makers of the book, or do you accept it because you could, in theory, check what the book says against a different source?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's faith in authority in a functioning democratic societity that makes it go around, it's the ability for the public to form their own opinions from a number of sources. Access to multiple sources of data, free flow of information. Accepting the abscence of credible evidence that suggests the textbook is lying (and lie believably, in unison with whatever other history-related book you could get your hands on) and concluding that thus, the textbook is mostly like not lying, is not really what I'd call a belief not based on proof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion part of the function of basic education in a democratic society is to make sure the students don't just accept things but actually think about it, do a bit of research on their own. To educate faith away, if you will.

[issy2]

most definately. without faith and hope, why would i continue living? i wouldn't want to...it's vry important

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But there's a huge difference between faith and hope. Hope is encouraging yourself to believe, or at least think that there is a way that something positive will happen. Faith is believing in something, or taking what you are told for granted, without a shred of evidence.

[warri0r45]

just asking the question whether or not children should be taught that it's a good thing to be taught not to need proof of something to believe in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

totally opposed to that. I strongly believe that kids should form thier own beliefs and opinions over time, without bias from thier parents. (of course i dont want them to start believing that they can break the law/any other rediculous [cabbage] like that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as for your question of 'should faith be a virtue' i dont particularly think so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

definition of a virtue:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A particularly efficacious, good, or beneficial quality

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now think about it for a bit, is faith always an efficacious, good, or beneficial quality? - no - sure, it can be, but not always. Take the terrorist example you gave for example.

[apinagez]

Before being taught faith, children should be taught how to recognize different kinds of people. Of course children won't master that ability so soon in their lives - and it's life, not their parents, that is most likely to teach them. However, if the parents keep telling them to believe everyone, they will get disappointed sooner or later.

 

 

 

The real virtue is only having complete faith in the people who deserve such faith - your parents and really good friends, for instance - people who only want the best for you, and only granting that faith after you have known them for a good while.

 

 

 

As for the other people, the virtue is always keeping an eye open, because they might kill you in your sleep. ;P

[warri0r45]

actually it has been proven that some people with cancer who have hope live longer or just plain live while people who dont just... DIE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yea, i believe being an optimist rather than a pessemist lengthens your lifespan. Why? well being pessemistic about life is kind of an indirect message to your brain that 'this isnt worth it, id be better off dead'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not very scientific i know. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Abyssalwhip]

 

actually it has been proven that some people with cancer who have hope live longer or just plain live while people who dont just... DIE

 

 

 

They're hoping because there's reason to. What you said alone is evidence for having a reason to believe that you can make it to help through cancer. The majority of people know that in cases of struggle, hoping helps on a psychological level, which translates to a physical level. Obviously if you give up you have less of a chance of making it than someone who is trying to get through it. Again, the difference is the evidence.

 

 

 

Astra, you made an excellent point, and I'd like to try to address it, but I've got to get to sleep now. Later I'll see what I can do. :P

Yeah, what i meant but explained better