Britain Pulling Out?

[crimsonking]

 

 

 

 

1) Just the arguement I would have expected out of the pro war side of this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) "because apparently, our way of doing things is the only way of doing things right."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) "listening in on phone calls, watching people's actions on the internet"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) "And, heres a reality check for you, China is one of the best nations in the world"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5) And about your comment about "Burying worthless people who slaughter each other over religion", why exactly are you there personally? From your post right there I can pretty much guess your another one of those sickos who joined in this war just to kill these "worthless people". I can not tell you how many of your kind I have met, thinking, "Its going to be AWSOME in Iraq, I get to kill people and be looked up to for it" it seems to be a very common mentality from what I have seen, not saying all soldiers think this way, but many do and it completly sickens me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6) I am going to stop here for now, as I don't want to spend my entire night on this one post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) It's not pro war in reality, more like Pro-Peace. Sometimes you have to remove a few radicals to bring peace to the population.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Been around the world? I have, spent anytime in the middle east, china, asia, europe? I have, go see the world and you will realize just how great we have it in America.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) My theory on the whole privacy debate, if you have nothing to hide, what do you care? I wouldnt give two craps if they wanted to record my life 24/7, I have nothing to hide. The guilty do though huh, wonder why there are so many that want to hide...hmmmmmmmmm, if I got to lose my privacy so they can catch criminals...so be it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) rofl...buy into media much? ever been there? every studied their history? a Great Nation...well I will give you they have a neat history, and have been around a long time. ..let's see what is my favorite mental picture of china...hmmmmmmm ah, i remember, it was the sight of hundreds of baby girls tied to clay pots and plastic buckets so they wouldnt have to change them, as they sat and cried...hungry, dirty, because they were "lesser citizens"....in the state run "foster system".....or maybe running over a guy with a tank who had the audacity to question the government......research, learn, then open mouth and make an informed opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5) meant every word of that. Joined the military at 17 yo in 1986, and until you actually walk down the streets of Bahgdad, and see the bodies of women and children from the last brain washed, worthless piece of #### who decided to indiscrimanately blow himself up for his idealogy..or the 5 yo little girl they send out into the street in front of our convoy, strapped with explosives......or hiding behind women and children as they shoot at us, knowing we value innocent life to much to fire back...yeah your right, and I will happily remove each and every one of them if I could, as painfully as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6) good idea, stop while you're ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. War only leads to more war, it may get peaceful in between for a bit of time but until you solve your problems with another country without killing them, they are always going to hold a grudge against you for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. I don't doubt that many are worse off than us, though we still certainly arn't the most powerful country in the world, you act as if we have complete control over everything and everyone should take every command we make, and that is one of the main reasons why America sucks so much, our egos are so big that we think we should act as gods over everyone else, we do not hold supreme power over the world, we are no better than anyone else, get over it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. You are missing the entire point, our freedom is fading away due to the control freaks we have in our government there have even been cases of them completly ignoring the constitution, that was suppost to be the supreme laws that NO ONE can go against, to make their laws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Actually, I have learned a lot about Chinese history, and sure, its not quite pretty, but you can't exactly pass our history off as perfect either, since you are talking about "Lesser citizens" may I bring up our past with African American slaves, poorly treated immigrant workers, in fact, until recently, no one was completly equal to white males, as for them running over a guy who questioned the government, may I take you back to the 60s, when entire groups of war protestors were beaten, some to death, just because they were against a government decision to go to war in Vietnam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5. So you take joy in killing these people? You do realize that not every one of these people that have been killed by the US have done such things as you have described, you are basically stereotyping over a few incidents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6. I only stopped with that post, I never said anything about stopping entirely

[Biabf]

Why would we have troops in Australia and the USA?

Read the site, it explains why we have troops in the countries. Quite a few of them are training bases, reserves and peacekeeping.

[sheepdean]

Tony Blair has finally zipped his trousers up and left the oval office. British forces should not have ever been brought into it, and now we are finally out.

[lordkrohn1626]

Crimsonking:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

War leads to war...hmmmmm can't agree there. Weak spined liberals like to talk about non military options....and they should Always be tried first...war isnt like hollywood, it is nasty business...nothing glorious or cool about it......however, we are talking about religious fanatical barbarians who don't understand harsh words and stern speechs...they just laugh and view you as weak...they understand only one thing....a bullet in the head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are many wonderful countries in the world, I have served beside the British and australian and even turkish, german and spanish...all fine people. When it comes to technological military might, we are pretty high up the food chain...don't believe the media hype, we can bring the pain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

freedom fading away.....maybe we shoyuldnt be able to electronically track convicted pedos, and listen in on known criminal elements within our own borders huh? come on....if you have nothing to hide, why would you care? how can you even justify that? I want the pedos locked down (if not instantly executed, but the sign waving liberals would never stand for that...that poor sicko has rights huh?...sigh) and i want radical islamics within our country and other criminals, monitored and tracked...if you need the ability to eavedrop to do so....feel free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are correct, no country has a pristene and wonderful history. Everyone (pretty much) has some type of blemish in their history. The key is to learn from it and move on...like the germans, i have served with them many times, outstanding human beings, and highly disciplined soldiers and sailors, had some good times with them....yet they were a mighty evil force 50 years ago, see how they evolved?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you think we should just sit in the comfort of our living rooms and ignore the MILLIONS being slaughtered by tyranical idiots that are in power in the middle east, somalia, etc....while we sip our tea and thank god we don't live there.....I cant. These people in power rape, murder and pillage as they see fit, conduct mass genocide on their own people and others they dont like who have different views....someone has to step in and help the innocent.....ever had someone come up in the streets of the middle east and hug you, say thank you for helping us, thank you for feeding my children, thanks for rebuilding our school...with tears in their eyes? THAT is why we are here...that doesnt sell news shows though..only controversy and media hyped agenda based views sell...I am here, I have seen it firsthand, and thus I can make an informed decision. Speak not of what you know nothing about.

[pompey_spud]

I would just like to say, thank you, Krohn and Crimson for such well thought out and passionant arguments. You both provide excellent points, backed up with wonderful examples and opinions and it has been a pleasure to read your mini debate. It provides such a refreshing change to defending myself, or watch others do the same against hypocritical fools, so please, carry on. =D>

[lordkrohn1626]

I would just like to say, thank you, Krohn and Crimson for such well thought out and passionant arguments. You both provide excellent points, backed up with wonderful examples and opinions and it has been a pleasure to read your mini debate. It provides such a refreshing change to defending myself, or watch others do the same against hypocritical fools, so please, carry on. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you sir, I respect crimson for a respectable, intelligent debater, even if he calls me names lol. Makes the world more interesting to have different views, I believe in mine, he believes in his, neither is willing to give in or change our minds, but maybe just maybe we both get another view, thus expand our own minds just a bit :)

[crimsonking]

Crimsonking:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

War leads to war...hmmmmm can't agree there. Weak spined liberals like to talk about non military options....and they should Always be tried first...war isnt like hollywood, it is nasty business...nothing glorious or cool about it......however, we are talking about religious fanatical barbarians who don't understand harsh words and stern speechs...they just laugh and view you as weak...they understand only one thing....a bullet in the head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are many wonderful countries in the world, I have served beside the British and australian and even turkish, german and spanish...all fine people. When it comes to technological military might, we are pretty high up the food chain...don't believe the media hype, we can bring the pain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

freedom fading away.....maybe we shoyuldnt be able to electronically track convicted pedos, and listen in on known criminal elements within our own borders huh? come on....if you have nothing to hide, why would you care? how can you even justify that? I want the pedos locked down (if not instantly executed, but the sign waving liberals would never stand for that...that poor sicko has rights huh?...sigh) and i want radical islamics within our country and other criminals, monitored and tracked...if you need the ability to eavedrop to do so....feel free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are correct, no country has a pristene and wonderful history. Everyone (pretty much) has some type of blemish in their history. The key is to learn from it and move on...like the germans, i have served with them many times, outstanding human beings, and highly disciplined soldiers and sailors, had some good times with them....yet they were a mighty evil force 50 years ago, see how they evolved?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you think we should just sit in the comfort of our living rooms and ignore the MILLIONS being slaughtered by tyranical idiots that are in power in the middle east, somalia, etc....while we sip our tea and thank god we don't live there.....I cant. These people in power [assault], murder and pillage as they see fit, conduct mass genocide on their own people and others they dont like who have different views....someone has to step in and help the innocent.....ever had someone come up in the streets of the middle east and hug you, say thank you for helping us, thank you for feeding my children, thanks for rebuilding our school...with tears in their eyes? THAT is why we are here...that doesnt sell news shows though..only controversy and media hyped agenda based views sell...I am here, I have seen it firsthand, and thus I can make an informed decision. Speak not of what you know nothing about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. There are only 2 ways to end a war, diplomacy, or just kill everyone on one side, which btw is close to impossible, you kill everyone in one group and another pops up and seeks revenge, a large group like the one we are facing, will more than likely have many allies and sympathizers, in the end this could turn into WWIII.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Yes indeed we are fairly powerful, but the most powerful country in the world? I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.There are many other examples other than that, lets see, the whole issue with gay marriage is a big one, marriage is a religious ceremony is it not? Whatever happened to seperation of church and state as well as world equality? Can't homosexuals have the right to a marriage if they want it? It doesn't hurt anybody does it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And back to taxes, as I stated before, our ancestors seperated itself from being under British control partially because of taxes, and now we bring it back? I know back when it started we were in somewhat of a crisis, and yeah, if it would have ended back then like the government said it would, it would have been fine, yet they kept it up, and now these taxes are used for unknown reasons, and now we have tax returns at a set time of the year, which of gives part of our money back, yet doesn't that just prove that all this time all of these taxes have been for no reason?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Indeed, so why arn't you letting other countries have the chance to evolve before you start calling them lesser than you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5. Fine, I give you that, but you still can't say that this isn't about American dominance else we could have taken out this problem long ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would just like to say, thank you, Krohn and Crimson for such well thought out and passionant arguments. You both provide excellent points, backed up with wonderful examples and opinions and it has been a pleasure to read your mini debate. It provides such a refreshing change to defending myself, or watch others do the same against hypocritical fools, so please, carry on. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you sir, I respect crimson for a respectable, intelligent debater, even if he calls me names lol. Makes the world more interesting to have different views, I believe in mine, he believes in his, neither is willing to give in or change our minds, but maybe just maybe we both get another view, thus expand our own minds just a bit :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, thank you for the compliments, I am beginning to respect you as well Kronh, at first you really did look like those war mongers that have only joined the war to kill(No, this is not just media hype(I never really care much to pay attention to the media anyways) my cousin is a marine in the war and has spent some time in Iraq and he has some marine friends that are seriously like that, and to tell you the truth I'm starting to question his motives as well.), but it seems you are better than that, this is becoming a rather interesting debate.

[lordkrohn1626]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. There are only 2 ways to end a war, diplomacy, or just kill everyone on one side, which btw is close to impossible, you kill everyone in one group and another pops up and seeks revenge, a large group like the one we are facing, will more than likely have many allies and sympathizers, in the end this could turn into WWIII.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Yes indeed we are fairly powerful, but the most powerful country in the world? I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.There are many other examples other than that, lets see, the whole issue with gay marriage is a big one, marriage is a religious ceremony is it not? Whatever happened to seperation of church and state as well as world equality? Can't homosexuals have the right to a marriage if they want it? It doesn't hurt anybody does it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And back to taxes, as I stated before, our ancestors seperated itself from being under British control partially because of taxes, and now we bring it back? I know back when it started we were in somewhat of a crisis, and yeah, if it would have ended back then like the government said it would, it would have been fine, yet they kept it up, and now these taxes are used for unknown reasons, and now we have tax returns at a set time of the year, which of gives part of our money back, yet doesn't that just prove that all this time all of these taxes have been for no reason?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Indeed, so why arn't you letting other countries have the chance to evolve before you start calling them lesser than you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5. Fine, I give you that, but you still can't say that this isn't about American dominance else we could have taken out this problem long ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would just like to say, thank you, Krohn and Crimson for such well thought out and passionant arguments. You both provide excellent points, backed up with wonderful examples and opinions and it has been a pleasure to read your mini debate. It provides such a refreshing change to defending myself, or watch others do the same against hypocritical fools, so please, carry on. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you sir, I respect crimson for a respectable, intelligent debater, even if he calls me names lol. Makes the world more interesting to have different views, I believe in mine, he believes in his, neither is willing to give in or change our minds, but maybe just maybe we both get another view, thus expand our own minds just a bit :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, thank you for the compliments, I am beginning to respect you as well Kronh, at first you really did look like those war mongers that have only joined the war to kill(No, this is not just media hype(I never really care much to pay attention to the media anyways) my cousin is a marine in the war and has spent some time in Iraq and he has some marine friends that are seriously like that, and to tell you the truth I'm starting to question his motives as well.), but it seems you are better than that, this is becoming a rather interesting debate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

those types are just young an dimmature, their vision of war is from hollywood, and once they get here, reality slowly sets in. They hide behind their fear by pounding their chests and saying "yeah, I am here to kill some ragheads"...oh really, okay rambo, just stay behind me and keep your mouth shut, and maybe you will live through today with your bad self.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not the first time I have been taken the wrong way, I have some strong opinions, and dont sugar coat much of what I say, kinda hard to fit a book of things you want to say into a tiny little reply box...so some stuff gets miscontrued and misunderstood.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I think that it is a good decision. TBH, I think that the British troops have done everything that they can in Basra, and although we've only lost 130, compared to the 3,000 American body bags, this is a huge amount for British War-time casualties, and this war is becoming more unpopular and stupid by the day. I also think that to fully understand why the pull-out has been started we have to look at the world scenario right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The IAEA recently published a report into Iran's nuclear activites. I presume that the leaders of this world are starting to look at Iraq, and then Iran and Afghanistan, and realise that the latter two are probably going to be more detrimental for domestic security in the long run than Iraq, and we HAVE to deal with Afghanistan and the infamous Hellmand province, and then try and control Iran's nuclear activites (note: by this I don't mean invade. I mean allow them to develop nuclear power, but control them to make sure they DON'T develop missiles. I'm a supporter of CND and I think most of us would understand war won't solve Iran, but only make the risk higher).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the third reason is a political issue. At the last general election in the UK, although the Tories didn't do as well as expected, it became apparent that lots of the left-wing voters became alienated away from the New Labour Party, and voted for the Liberal Democrats. This brings the associated risk of letting the Tories into #10 'through the back door'. If the war goes on for any longer with our participation, that risk will become very serious in three years' time. Also, imagine the Tories do get into power. They'll say that Labour left with them with this massive problem of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the issue will damage Labour seriously for the next decade probably. Tony (and the Labour Party for about 2 1/2 years now) realises and this, and it's come to the point where, in order to maintain power at the next general election, the withdrawal of troops, and thus the stories of comrades coming home with their legs blown off in the tabloids, has to come now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bush is welcome to his "pile more troops in, blow the terrorists to pieces" ideology, with his 'street by street clear-out' tactics, but it won't bear any significance, except for further embarassment for the Bush Administration, and certainy will *not* work. And that's the kind of embarassment the Labour Party wants out of...

[azntemplar_00]

will it affect us? nah.....nothing new...US military (world police) provides 95% of the soldiers, 95% of the money, 95% of the casualties and the funny part is we get 95% of world wide disdain. You think we like playing world police? fix your own problems, dont go crying to the US every time you get some new fanatical dictator threatening your lives. My vote is we just stay in our own country, fix our schools, our roads, feed our poor, and let the world deal with their own problems......maybe then we will get the respect we deserve. We are used to doing all of UN's dirty work while they sit behind their desks and look down their noses at us, publicly denouncing what we do, while asking for more support and money behind closed doors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You wonder how a country barely 500 years old could go from wilderness to the super power of the world? FREEDOM, freedom to pursue intelligent thought, scientific design.....but go ahead and continue Socialism, Communism etc and wonder why we are so far ahead in the game of life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

China has been around for a very very long time, proof positive that communism doesnt work, or they would be the worlds most powerful and rich nation...instead of us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, I have been deployed here since Oct 2006 and wont return to my wife and 4 kids until later this year. Not the first time I have had to do time in the sandland burying worthless people who slaughter each other over religion, and I am sure it won't be the last. We should have finished the job when I was here in 1990 in Desert Storm, when we defeated Sadaam's "million man army" in 40 days....bring it Iran, your next in line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respect to you sir for fighting in the war, but I just wanted to point out that China only became communist in 1949. Please give it another 200 or so years before you make that kind of comment :-P.