Army attack brutal and cowardly, what's going to happen now?

[hide=Army attack 'brutal and cowardly']The murder of two soldiers as they accepted a pizza delivery was an act of "extreme brutality", MPs have heard.

Sappers Mark Quinsey, 23, from Birmingham and Patrick Azimkar, 21, from London, died in the shooting at Massereene Army base, Antrim.

Shaun Woodward told the House of Commons the attack, which the Real IRA have said they carried out, was an "attempt at mass murder".

"More than 60 shots were fired," the Northern Ireland Secretary said.

Four other people, including two pizza delivery men, were injured.

He said that the "so-called Real IRA claimed responsibility for this act of extreme brutality".

"Whatever self-styled name these murderers choose to use, the House will correctly recognise them as barbaric criminals, who are prepared to carry out an act of pre-meditated mass murder," he said.

"Callously murdering innocent people going about their daily business, they are simply brutal and cowardly killers."

Mr Woodward also told the MPs that the level of threat from dissident republicans had, last week, been raised by the security services from substantial to severe.

He said this was based on a threat which "has recently been higher than at any time in the last six years".

Since 2008, he said, dissident republicans mounted 18 attacks - 15 during 2008 and three in 2009.

Forensic

Detectives hunting the killers of the two young soldiers are examining CCTV footage from the area.

Detective Chief Superintendent Derek Williamson said "some of the events" had been caught on camera and that a car found about seven miles from the base was the getaway vehicle.

The green Vauxhall Cavalier TDZ 7309 was found in Randalstown and had been bought two weeks ago, said Det Ch Supt Williamson.

The Army's bomb experts are examining the car as a precautionary measure and it will then be examined for clues by forensic officers.

"We have some information about its history, but we need to find out more about its movements on Saturday night and in the past two weeks," Det Ch Supt Williamson told a news conference.

"We need to know where it's been, who was in it, and where they are now.

"This is an important line of enquiry and we need people to come forward."

Tributes have been paid to the two soldiers.

The Army commander in Northern Ireland said the two men had been "magnificent individuals".

Brigadier George Norton said the men had been killed in a "callous and clinical" attack.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown visited the base and met NI political leaders on Monday. He said the peace process was "unshakeable".

"What I've seen this morning is the unity of the people of Northern Ireland, and the unity of the political parties," he said.

"That they are going to continue to work together and they want to send out a message to the world - as I do - that the political process will not and never be shaken.

"In fact, the political process is now unshakeable."

There has been condemnation of the attack from all the Northern Ireland political parties.

Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams said the murders were "an attack on the peace process" and Northern Ireland's First Minister Peter Robinson described the killings "a futile act and a terrible waste".

"The events of Saturday evening were a throwback to a previous era. We must never return to such terrible days," he said.

Four other people, including two pizza delivery men - Anthony Watson, 19, from Antrim and a Polish man in his 30s - were injured in Saturday's attack.

One of the delivery men is in a serious condition in hospital. It is understood the others are in a stable condition.

The rest of 38 Engineer Regiment has now left the base and gone to Afghanistan.

The two young soldiers were the first to be murdered in Northern Ireland in 12 years. Lance Bombardier Stephen Restorick was killed by an IRA sniper in 1997.[/hide]

(Taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/nort ... 933530.stm)

12 years without any soldiers dying, then along comes two Real IRA men and kills two soldiers and wounds four others. They say the peace process will not be stopped because of this but what do you think?

I think it probably won't stop it (at least I hope not) but it will delay it a bit.

EDIT: Now there's a Policeman dead

[hide=Policeman shot dead in N Ireland, days after soldiers slain]BELFAST (AFP) A policeman has been shot dead in Northern Ireland 48 hours after the killing of two British soldiers in an apparent escalation of violence designed to derail the peace process.

The on-duty officer was shot in the head in Craigavon, 20 miles (32 kilometres) southwest of Belfast, late Monday, police said. The apparent ambush is the first killing of a policeman in Northern Ireland for a decade.

The latest death, plus the soldiers' shooting as they received a pizza delivery at their base late Saturday, raises fears that Northern Ireland's hard-earned political stability could be under threat.

"We are staring into the abyss and I would appeal to people to pull back," Dolores Kelly, a nationalist SDLP lawmaker and member of the Northern Ireland policing board, was quoted as saying by Sky News television.

Political leaders again vowed that violence would not shake the province's progress to peace.

Northern Ireland's First Minister Peter Robinson said he was "sickened" by the attacks, while Britain's Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward added: "We must not allow them the capacity to undermine the political process."

There were unconfirmed reports that other police officers were also hurt in the incident.

Local political sources told AFP the officer was shot following a callout to an incident near a nationalist republican area.

Two police cars raced to the scene and when officers stepped out of one of the vehicles, gunmen who were lying in wait opened fire.

Armed officers and a police helicopter are at the scene as officers hunt for the perpetrators.

No group has taken responsibility for killing the policeman but the death of the soldiers, the first such attack for 12 years, was claimed by the Real IRA.

The Real IRA is a republican dissident group opposed to the peace process formed in 1997 as a splinter group from the Irish Republican Army (IRA).

It was behind Northern Ireland's most deadly attack, the 1998 Omagh bombing which killed 29 people.

Northern Ireland endured three decades of violence known as the Troubles which killed around 3,000 people and largely ended in 1998 with the Good Friday Agreement peace accord.

The latest upsurge of violence has prompted politicians to insist that Northern Ireland's devolved power-sharing government, put in place after the accord, will not be thrown off course.

The British province is currently ruled by a power-sharing government uniting former foes the Democratic Unionists and republican Sinn Fein -- the ex-political wing of the now defunct IRA -- devolved from London.

Republicans want Northern Ireland to leave the United Kingdom and join the Republic of Ireland to the south, while unionists want to keep ties with Britain.

Robinson, of the DUP, called the latest shooting an "evil deed".

"I am sickened at the attempts by terrorists to destabilise Northern Ireland," he said. "Those responsible for this murderous act will not be allowed to drag our province back to the past".

He urged Northern Ireland's chief of police Sir Hugh Orde "to take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that innocent life is protected in the face of this terrorist threat across Northern Ireland."

Britain's Woodward described the attack as "brutal" and said it showed "just how ruthless these criminals are".

"These people do unfortunately have the capacity to kill but we must not allow them the capacity to undermine the political process," he said on Sky News television.

And Sinn Fein lawmaker John O'Dowd told the BBC: "Tonight's killing means that we have to dig deeper within ourselves to find extra strength and resolve to continue on this path, but continue on it we must".

Orde said he was "immensely proud" of his force after the attack.

Asked if the two recent killings were linked, Orde told reporters: "I think you are giving (the attackers) credit they ill deserve.

"I think these are disparate groups, badly infiltrated and indeed many awaiting trial north and south of the border.

"It just reminds us that a small group of people determined to wreck what is huge political progress are becoming more dangerous."[/hide]

Taken from http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... Ru2jbafSFg

(REEDIT: It's now the CIRA that claimed they done it)

I don't think it will derail the peace process. The real IRA don't have the support they once had. They also don't have the resources since Gaddafi won't provide them arms anymore and the American's post-9/11 obsession with anything that can be deemed terrorism has all but ended the Irish-American community's financial support for them.

The only way this will become a problem is if the government over-reacts and puts British army troops on the streets which would irritate republicans immensely. This was just an opportunistic attack in my opinion, they got lucky because after 12 years nobody was expecting it - presumably this was in reaction to the Special Reconnaissance Service helping the NI police service with training (which some republicans tried to claim was to pave the way for troops to get back on the streets).

No they didn't really not expect it.

I'll try find a source if I can.

But it wouldn't take politicians to get the it started again, you just need one person who is doing a "retaliation hit" to get it start up again.

Oh my God, two Individual Retirement Account men killed 2 soldiers and wounded 4 others?! :o

Ok, I'm just joking. On a serious note, these IRA men are drama queens. What's the big deal with Britain owning N. Ireland?

They should just move south if you ask me. They don't like a small part of Ireland belonging to Britain? They should really just move south to the greater part of Ireland. It's far better than spilling blood over a small strip of land.

Oh my God, two Individual Retirement Account men killed 2 soldiers and wounded 4 others?! :o

 

 

 

Ok, I'm just joking. On a serious note, these IRA men are drama queens. What's the big deal with Britain owning N. Ireland?

 

 

 

They should just move south if you ask me. They don't like a small part of Ireland belonging to Britain? They should really just move south to the greater part of Ireland. It's far better than spilling blood over a small strip of land.

Well then, why didn't Americans just move to Mexico to avoid being under British rule instead of wasting all that tea in Boston and fighting that war in 1775? They want a united Ireland, as it essentially was until 1801 before the Act of Union which brought all of Ireland under British rule. Now Britain is a predominantly protestant country while Ireland is mainly Catholic - this led to tensions and Irish independence movement began opposing British rule. The British parliament then divided Ireland in 1921, deliberately keeping a Protestant majority (many of whom originated from mainland Britain) in NI so it would remain loyal (thus Britain would retain some territory). However, in NI there is still a large Catholic population which resents British rule and their treatment under British rule.

I've probably just butchered basic Irish history hopefully, somebody who is better read on this can join this thread and explain a little more clearly.

In short another territorial dispute that can be traced back to Britain (see Palestine, Kashmir and various African nations for further glorious examples).

edit - A policeman got shot in Craigavon.

Can't they just, like, get along? I may be six generations separated from my Irish roots, but the days of "only one religion" are long gone. Why can't they just have open worship and come together in a Christlike approach to helping the people of Ireland? There's nothing religious about this, at all. That's just the excuse for a few overzealous "patriots" who take offense to actions that occured over two hundred years ago. How about instead of killing people and blowing up bombs, we use our efforts in diplomatic terms to petition Britain to release the nation or give it more autonomy.

Sorry to be cruel, but those attacks do squat. I had a dear friend (a very Catholic dear friend) murdered in an IRA car bombing along with her younger sister. Killed by people claiming to be Catholic. The who idea of using religion as a facade for murder is sickening. The IRA needs to die, or at least stop claiming that these underhanded attacks are anything to do with religion.

Can't they just, like, get along?

Yes, can't we all ?

I don't see why such a large rift would occur between these peoples. They are both fundamentally Christian, and I can't point out the real reason the conflict started in the first place. In regards to the murders, I don't think it will do much, more politics and less action.

I don't see why such a large rift would occur between these peoples.

You do know the history of Northern Ireland (and Ireland in general) in respect to this topic?

How about instead of killing people and blowing up bombs, we use our efforts in diplomatic terms to petition Britain to release the nation or give it more autonomy.

Em that's what the peace process is about. But Britain I most likely (imo) won't give Northern Ireland back. But they did say something like If the majority of Northern Ireland wants to go with the Republic of Ireland they will give it back then. But I may be mistaken on that I'm not 100% sure.

I don't see why such a large rift would occur between these peoples.

You do know the history of Northern Ireland (and Ireland in general) in respect to this topic?

Yes, I do. I know about the "occupation", partition, civil war... vaguely.

I was merely mentioning, that it is essentially a theological, [excuse the expression], argument. I can't see the logic in any conflict, however the Troubles have been raging on for well past the previous half of the century. I just dont get it.

If the Troubles start up again, as rumoured, then I can say that I'm running from Belfast 8-)

But it really is cowardly and stupid of dissedent reupublican's doing these type of things, they won't get anywhere with the mothods they take IMO

Well it seems like the CIRA and RIRA is getting slammed big time by both sides of the border, by just about all creeds not just Protestants and Catholics.

[hide=http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-03-11-voa53.cfm]Thousands of people in Northern Ireland have marched against republican dissidents responsible for killing a police officer and two British soldiers in the British-controlled province.

Catholic and Protestant politicians joined forces Wednesday with demonstrators in Belfast and other cities in a show of unity not seen in decades. Even members of historically rival paramilitary units took part.

Two British soldiers and a policeman have been killed in the past five days, in Northern Ireland's worst political violence in a decade. Provincial newspapers and four major church denominations - Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Anglican and Methodist - had urged the entire community to renounce the violence.

Pope Benedict, in a statement, condemned the killings, calling them "abominable acts of terrorism" that endanger the entire peace process.

The splinter group Continuity IRA claimed responsibility for killing the police officer late Monday.

Police announced two arrests Tuesday. A separate splinter group, the Real IRA, claimed responsibility for the killing of the two soldiers last week north of Belfast. No arrests have been announced in that attack, which wounded four other people.[/hide]

The real IRA are now gone, some of the original members are in the NI government

These were a minority group, probably no more than 100 in the whole group. It's a split off from the former IRA.

The attacks were still low, however when isn't a drive by shooting cowardly? I'm not defending it but they must have had some twisted courage to attack outside an army base!

Now, I'm Irish (Republic), not that it matters much but I don't care about the country you're from. My mum lived in England for most of her childhood so I have nothing against English people. My cousin (lived in Galway) is now married to someone from Northern Ireland.

There's nothin good about these attacks, however, for future reference you might want to get some facts right

The religion thing is also stupid. I don't care about Protestants or Catholics, in fact I defend Protestants because I'm friends with one, despite the fact that in my school it's not the best idea (haven't got beaten up yet though but if I do at least it'll be for something right). I'll finish with a quote "It does not matter to me if my neighbour believes in no God or many gods. It does not harm me. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" which is true

Let's hope the troubles don't start again, don't think they will though

I hope Northern Ireland won't return to the violence that it once had. I was born there, and I can still remember as a child seeing soldiers everywhere I went, seeing guns was normal, and searches while going into public places were common. Belfast, (my hometown) was a really dangerous place, and the violence after a neighbour was shot in our very street for no reason is the main reason why we moved to England. If violence erupts again, I hope this time it can be dealt with quickly. as the numbers of the members of the CIRA are lower than the original IRA. We can only wait and see.

Oh my God, two Individual Retirement Account men killed 2 soldiers and wounded 4 others?! :o

 

 

 

Ok, I'm just joking. On a serious note, these IRA men are drama queens. What's the big deal with Britain owning N. Ireland?

 

 

 

They should just move south if you ask me. They don't like a small part of Ireland belonging to Britain? They should really just move south to the greater part of Ireland. It's far better than spilling blood over a small strip of land.

 

 

 

Well then, why didn't Americans just move to Mexico to avoid being under British rule instead of wasting all that tea in Boston and fighting that war in 1775? They want a united Ireland, as it essentially was until 1801 before the Act of Union which brought all of Ireland under British rule. Now Britain is a predominantly protestant country while Ireland is mainly Catholic - this led to tensions and Irish independence movement began opposing British rule. The British parliament then divided Ireland in 1921, deliberately keeping a Protestant majority (many of whom originated from mainland Britain) in NI so it would remain loyal (thus Britain would retain some territory). However, in NI there is still a large Catholic population which resents British rule and their treatment under British rule.

 

 

 

I've probably just butchered basic Irish history hopefully, somebody who is better read on this can join this thread and explain a little more clearly.

 

 

 

In short another territorial dispute that can be traced back to Britain (see Palestine, Kashmir and various African nations for further glorious examples).

 

 

 

edit - A policeman got shot in Craigavon.

You pretty much got it there. No country likes to be under rule by another country, especially one so different from their own.

Brits are still...err kinda hated here, but not as much as previously was. At least in my school that's the case.

However, I will go back to my previous point. No country likes being under rule from another country. America have got independance. As far as I know so have Australia. Northern Ireland has it's own government yet isn't quite separate from the UK. I don't see why they can't just accept it though.....and this comes from a strong believer in a free Ireland. However as I've already said I have no problem with Britain....just don't like that they're still holding on to territory taken hundreds of years ago by some greedy men