G.E should the caps be changed?

http://[Censored - Don't use a URL shortner]/W3B3f

Basically as many know G.E Merchant clans, basically take an item off the market raise demand and then sell it, not only do the people who are caught with these items (the people who buy into you can actually make money off these clans are stuck with the items) the merchant clan leaders but the items days in advance, and when they tell others to buy they pretty much dump them from the start.

 

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/runes ... gclans.PNG

 

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/File:Me ... clans2.PNG

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4qpRDLIMSg

Solutions?

Could it be possible to further cap what you buy, such as if you buy 2 pieces of the same armour it caps you to 4 hours, then 8 then 12, and so on, because you are buying more than one, who needs more than one rare helm such as verac?

Could they limit fish in the same way? we don't want players to suffer training skills like cooking, but as the profit margins arent high on fish maybe the cap could be high on buying raw fish say you can only have 2k of this fish of the g.e at a time but as you cook them you can buy more, but because you are actually cooking the fish, then the cap virtually doesnt exist for people training but for people trying to merchant raw fish they've just hit a dead end.

Finally is Clan Merching classed as scamming? well as Mod Kat K stated, only the leaders really profit.

Solo Merching not such of a profit, but players always find a way to exploit any update such as PvP.

I think putting a cap on the same item would be a really great idea, such as two verac helms like you said.

A cap on buying two duplicate items of armour/weapons would work well to start off, obviously caps on things such as raw materials would have to be considered a bit more.

I think putting a cap on the same item would be a really great idea, such as two verac helms like you said.

 

A cap on buying two duplicate items of armour/weapons would work well to start off, obviously caps on things such as raw materials would have to be considered a bit more.

Solution for raw materials is still a simple one.

Farming - Buying seeds 50 limit or whatever, once theyre in plant pots you can buy 50 more.

Cooking - Once your raw fish or whatever go to cooked item you can buy that many more so you can only have 2k raw fish a time unless you have fished them so say you have an offer in for 10k, once those 2k you have bought have been cooked another 2k will come through I really can see a system like that being intergrated.

But this could make players have 2 accounts and trade between them to exploit the system once more, so it will still be tough to stop unless you can't even trade these in a trade window either for that time :\.

That's if they really wanted to be tough on merchanting, that way seems awkward to players, though it could just take getting used to

What are the consequences of getting rid of price caps on items through GE?

What are the consequences of getting rid of price caps on items through GE?

what are the consequences of not reading the contents of the post before posting?

What are the consequences of getting rid of price caps on items through GE?

 

 

 

what are the consequences of not reading the contents of the post before posting?

A little conceited wasn't it? FYI, I read the post, I just don't feel that more limitations is the answer I want. My question(which is one that has great discussion value, I feel), addresses a change to the GE that would keep me from feeling treated like a prisoner/child.

What if I could offer any price for any item? Why does this introduce an aspect of RWT? With the anonymity of the GE, how would a RWT transaction work if the players didn't feel secure that the GP would go to the right person?

What are the consequences of getting rid of price caps on items through GE?

 

 

 

what are the consequences of not reading the contents of the post before posting?

 

 

 

A little conceited wasn't it? FYI, I read the post, I just don't feel that more limitations is the answer I want. My question(which is one that has great discussion value, I feel), addresses a change to the GE that would keep me from feeling treated like a prisoner/child.

 

 

 

What if I could offer any price for any item? Why does this introduce an aspect of RWT? With the anonymity of the GE, how would a RWT transaction work if the players didn't feel secure that the GP would go to the right person?

It doesnt really concercn RWT but falls in hands of merching clans buying out and selling even higher, I think jagex want an element of control which is why the G.E is both practical and a convienent solution, although free trading was something we all took for granted :cry:

Besides I can see RWT happening "put a unfired bowl at 400M and we'll buy it"

What about just capping it such as a cracker can be put on for 1gp [extreme example, I know] :?:

yes

Good question. Should the caps be further restricted as an effort to combat MCs (Merchant Clans)? My response to his would be no, but that's a bit simple.

Further cap restrictions have the potential of doing more harm than good in the long run. Any type of price gap that can be manipulated will be manipulated. The only difference this would make would be to slow down the MCs methods. The side effect of this would create an even greater bottleneck within the GE, forcing items in demand to rise at a much slower pace, and items abundant in supply to fall much slower till they reach acceptable prices.

There are also philosophical arguments to be had. Tighter caps leads us one step closer to set prices, which would be the only way to ensure an end to price manipulation. This sends us closer to a system called market socialism, where the authority (Jagex) sets all prices. You have to decide if this is a system you would really want in order to defeat price manipulators. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for security will lose both and deserve neither. I know, I know, it's just a game...but still...

Another solution would be to go in the opposite direction, and lift price caps on all goods. Of course, this opens the door to RWT once again. See how the solutions of yesterday have created the problems we have today?

So if we can't limit trade, and we can open trade, then what can we do? My ideal solution would involve less coding, and more human. The first Jagex must do is state their position on price manipulation and MCs. It must be an official policy, and a front page news announcement. This alone won't put a stop to it, but at least we can make the honest players honest once again. Then, Jagex must get more involved inside the game by monitoring the trades occuring in the GE, taking action against players on a case by case basis. Action could include trade temporarily disabled, mutes, or even bans if necessary.

The GE graphs should include statistics on what items are fluctuating according to actual value, not percentages. If a common item sells for 2 gp, then changes to 3 gp who cares? All of the information should be accessed within the game, too. This can alert players to what items have been increasing or decreasing in price.

Finally, the GE should be limited to a set number of worlds. The downside to this is the GE worlds would fill up fast, but the intention behind this is to encourage player/player trades, and these trades should count towards influencing GE prices. (I see some flaw in this as well, MCs could max trade each other all day long to raise prices.) I would guesstimate that over 95% of trades occur on the GE. This means that MCs have the ability to dominate that much of the market, and doing it anonymously at that. We have no control over who we can sell to or not on the GE.

Individual trading could also be enhanced. Players should be able to conduct live, individual trades across servers. They could contact each other over forums, cc, or whatever means, and conduct a trade though a bank.

The biggest enemy to MCs would be to create more diversity within the market, encouraging more avenues of trade. Limiting price caps may put a squeeze one them, but they in turn put a squeeze on us all, and eventually plays even more into their hands.

Okay, that was long, and was pretty much rambling off the top of my head. I do see some areas that would need tweaking, but overall I hope my point gets through.

What are the consequences of getting rid of price caps on items through GE?

 

 

 

what are the consequences of not reading the contents of the post before posting?

 

 

 

A little conceited wasn't it? FYI, I read the post, I just don't feel that more limitations is the answer I want. My question(which is one that has great discussion value, I feel), addresses a change to the GE that would keep me from feeling treated like a prisoner/child.

 

 

 

What if I could offer any price for any item? Why does this introduce an aspect of RWT? With the anonymity of the GE, how would a RWT transaction work if the players didn't feel secure that the GP would go to the right person?

 

 

 

It doesnt really concercn RWT but falls in hands of merching clans buying out and selling even higher, I think jagex want an element of control which is why the G.E is both practical and a convienent solution, although free trading was something we all took for granted :cry:

 

 

 

Besides I can see RWT happening "put a unfired bowl at 400M and we'll buy it"

releasing the caps WONT help buy outs more, in fact it will make them much shorter.

All valid points, I don't see the trade cap ever getting removed, I like Jp's points about making it more diverse but Yew seeds this month have been manipulated twice, someone buying 99 farmer that day would see himself/herself shelling out lots more, without checking the graphs, which i don't think is fair.

 

http://itemdb-rs.runescape.com/2672_gra ... 15&scale=1

now a 40k price rise, I think that is not only excessive but also unfair on the 99.9999% who don't take these out of the market

All valid points, I don't see the trade cap ever getting removed, I like Jp's points about making it more diverse but Yew seeds this month have been manipulated twice, someone buying 99 farmer that day would see himself/herself shelling out lots more, without checking the graphs, which i don't think is fair.

It's because everyone is forced onto the GE, and makes it easier to manipulate prices against everyone. If all trades were occurring at say, 50% GE and 50% other ways, it makes it harder to bend prices at your will. I'm not saying it would completely eliminate price manipulation, but encouraging individual trades and reducing the dominance of the GE system will do two things to MCs:

1. it will take more effort to corner the market

2. it will increase their risk.

It will reduce the number of price manipulators, and anybody left trying can be punished in smaller numbers.

Also, by implementing my proposal instead of trade caps, it will help reduce price manipulation while not eliminating opportunity for merchants to profit. If anything, it would help increase opportunity.

My way would help bring back the old way of merchanting, which is actually what merchanting is. Merchants could find opportunistic buys, and trade to players outside of GE worlds with a slight commission. Players could choose to either take the convenience of merchant trades in exchange for a higher price in their own worlds, or opt to do the work themselves and look for better prices elsewhere. It would mimic a lot of the old style of trading, but the GE and server to server trading would enhance it, which is what it should have done all along.

Lifting or restricting price caps is a horizontal approach to the problem. Increasing more ways to trade is a more lateral approach, benefiting players and merchants while nullifying price manipulation.

The GE is already enough communistic/socialistic. No more limits should be added. Even the current limits are enough to kill the market of some items, such as harpoons (for ibis) and raw bird meat (for spirit terrorbird).

The GE is already enough communistic/socialistic. No more limits should be added. Even the current limits are enough to kill the market of some items, such as harpoons (for ibis) and raw bird meat (for spirit terrorbird).

Perhaps you should learn what Communism/Socialism are before claiming the G.E. is communistsic/socialistic. Its obviously a dictatorship.

I don't understand why Jagex implemented the GE the way they did. They turned trading into an automated system, which keeps anonymity in trades, yet allows this manipulation to happen. I'm baffled why they didn't set it up as a simple query ran through the data base like so:

1. You goto GE and search for sharks(lets say). It brings up a list of all the current shark sales. It will show current price, current amount(possible using a range to help limit RWT), and any other useful information...all in a big table.

2. You double click on one of the columns and gives you a overview/summary and asks you if you would like to accept. This completes the transaction.

Selling would be similiar to the interface they currently use. The only problem would be rendering the table. Updating in real time would cause massive lag, however having a refresh rate could cause instances where you try to buy something that has already be purchased. I'm sure as smart as Jagex is, they would be able to help limit this problem.

Maybe there would still be ways to manipulate this system, but I'm sure for every problem there could be a fix.

edit: and the post above mine defines irony

Perhaps you should learn what Communism/Socialism are before claiming the G.E. is communistsic/socialistic. Its obviously a dictatorship.

Explain how the GE is a dictatorship.

They should put limits on how many of an item you can own. These limits would only affect expensive non-slayer drops, such as dragon claws, hilts, barrows, sara swords, bandos/armadyl armor, sigils, etc. Nobody needs more than 10 copies of a barrows item, and likewise, nobody needs more than 3 copies of spirit shields or more than 4 copies of godswords/d claws/etc. One is to use, one is a placeholder, one is to lend, and one is an empty slot in case you get the item as a drop from a monster. Since you cannot lend spirit shields, this is cut to 3. This limit would affect bank, inventory, and GE. It's very strict, but it would almost completely destroy "pump and dump" merchanting of expensive items.

They should put limits on how many of an item you can own. These limits would only affect expensive non-slayer drops, such as dragon claws, hilts, barrows, sara swords, bandos/armadyl armor, sigils, etc. Nobody needs more than 10 copies of a barrows item, and likewise, nobody needs more than 3 copies of spirit shields or more than 4 copies of godswords/d claws/etc. One is to use, one is a placeholder, one is to lend, and one is an empty slot in case you get the item as a drop from a monster. Since you cannot lend spirit shields, this is cut to 3. This limit would affect bank, inventory, and GE. It's very strict, but it would almost completely destroy "pump and dump" merchanting of expensive items.

Merchant clans are more often inclined to manipulate common goods with greater demand. Your method would do nothing to prevent price manipulation on seeds, potions, food, etc. Also, and if you read through my previous posts you'll see that I am opposed to price manipulation, but do you really think more restrictions on everybody is worth eradicating price manipulators? I think we can come up with better solutions to the problem.

Or instead of completely destroying solo merching , action should just be taken agaisnt the clans. Don't you believe its a little bit harsh to do this , considering it would harm many merchants who actually help the economy ?

I believe a solution to prevent clan merching would be a much fairier way , and would actually stop the problem. Because how easy would it be for 1 j mod to search all known merch cc's and just freeze their items on ge ? Or just watch for items with artificial demand... Its really easy to tell.

I don't see any plausible solutions in this thread.

Caps on owning items would hurt sellers.

Removing price caps would allow much steeper price manipulation clans could hold items for longer and let them just keep rising.

Removing trade limits(even if just on the G.E. would open a huuuuuuuge alley for RWT. Even with anonymity someone could put up an offer to sell a bucket for 50m, no normal player would ever pay 50m for a bucket, so the rwt offers 50m for a bucket and viola, Rwt.

I don't see any plausible solutions in this thread.

 

 

 

Caps on owning items would hurt sellers.

 

Removing price caps would allow much steeper price manipulation clans could hold items for longer and let them just keep rising.

 

Removing trade limits(even if just on the G.E. would open a huuuuuuuge alley for RWT. Even with anonymity someone could put up an offer to sell a bucket for 50m, no normal player would ever pay 50m for a bucket, so the rwt offers 50m for a bucket and viola, Rwt.

As long as someone had an offer to sell the bucket for anything less then 50m, it would take priority...(even 20m..)

so that wouldn't be full proof....

I don't know if you've noticed, but merchant clans have actually been putting some life into the economy. It was happening before the trade limits and ge. People would buy out as many phats as possible and let people know how many they had, and word got out how many were left in the economy and the price raised. Same thing really, except the ge is like a "smart tool." It TELLS you when an item isn't circulating as much in the economy by raising the price of that item. If more people demand it than supply it, then that's what happens.

My main point is this: We suffered from the ge restrictions and the trade limit, and now you are suggesting that we suffer MORE to end merchant clans, when really merchant clans are helping the economy by getting the flow going, so to speak. Yes, they hurt people who want or need those items in the process, but then later when they dump them the items will be as low as ever and in great quantity, and they will have made their profits.

I think there is a way to solve some problems, and it is most definitely not this. I been a part of this economy for almost 5 years now, and I can tell you that finally, at present, it is more healthy now that it has been in the last year BY FAR, and actually is better than it was 2 years ago because of the convenience of the ge.

So let it be. Your one "little solution" will just upset people more and do more harm than good to the economy.

It's againts the law in most countries - it's called "price fixing"

so who cares about jagex rules?

It's againts the law in most countries - it's called "price fixing"

 

 

 

so who cares about jagex rules?

I still can't believe this.

Virtual currency isn't real currency, therefor not governed by the laws of that country. Why do you not understand that runescape is a game, and these laws govern real life trade. The money in my bank is real, the money in my runescape bank is pixels that is stored in a database somewhere.