hohto

Kinda smells like another mass ban. Went through my irc logs and... [18:24:05] -[EE]RuneScript- *** [ CASTLE-WARS ]: [Hohto] Rank: 1,110 | Score: 2,219 ^Yesterday [08:48:10] <@RuneScript> *** [ CASTLE-WARS ]: [Hohto] Rank: 959 | Score: 2,230 ^This morning 151 ranks up with just 11 games played... And if my memory serves me right, some days ago rank 1100 required around 2245 games. Was also ranked 1156th overall before going to sleep last night, woke up at rank 1133 and gone up ranks in every single skill, including 1,1k ranks in hunter this week by gaining just 1,6k xp. edit: also went up 48 construction ranks without xp gained. Now back in top 1300, yay.

That's a good start, but quite frankly nothing more than that. Few bans don't really make any difference when countless of people slip under the radar all the time and without any problems at all. If they really wanted to make a difference, they'd put more effort into catching bots than designing more and more cosmetic Solomon things and banning a handful of people every now and then. Oh well, guess even a handful is better than nothing...

We always have to bear in mind that skills tend to get easier all the time and what once looked like an impossible task, can now be something "everyone" can do. Just because someone doesn't consider something worth even being a goal now doesn't mean it isn't something that can just be done in "no time" soon. It only takes 2 right updates and those two skills could turn into "jokes" like RC did after Runespan or cooking did after cook-x.

Kinda interesting to find topics you wrote or read over a decade ago... Anyways went through my ow archives and found quite a few pics worth posting. Those pics are from december 2002 if my memory serves me right. The person in santa is me and that's a Scapeboard mod pk event. Some familiar names can be found from the pics. Back in the days Andrew was somewhat active at the forums and taking part in discussions too. No ivory towers or anything, just chatting like the rest of the guys. Old Scapeboard layout from 2003. Notice the mod list ;) Lacks cropping, but meh. Gotta love the old market section. Things were "a bit" different back in then. Gotta love the prices. Another old layout. Notice who had posted the last thing to the general section ;)

I don't remember the last weekend, but not worth remembering either I guess. Nonetheless, people worth remembering are remembered by those who are old enough to remember.

Graz :) And gl on getting the (trimmed) comp cape ;)

I have a bit twisted feelings about this update... It seems somehow wrong that the fastest xp to a certain skill comes from a minigame. Basically you could get from 1 to 99 without ever even going to the altars or creating "proper" runes. That kinda reminds me of how Pest Control was before it was nerfed. For some reason I wouldn't be surprised if Jagex nerfed the minigame after some weeks/months. Would somehow fit to the image Jagex has when it comes to this kind of situations. However on the bright side, RC was seriously in need of an update that changed the nature of the skill. Slow, requires a lot of clicking&attention and repetitive aren't the words skills should have to be described with. Was this the right thing to is another question, but at least those words don't have to refer to rc anymore. From the economic point of view, this update might have been a catastrophy, a blessing or something between those lines, depending how much people will start doing it and how do they see things. It's a cruel fact that this update will take away people from doing "real" runes. That could mean less supply, meaning higher prices for the runes. However I used the verb "could" for a reason: it depends how good the wicked robes will be, how big total effect will the new pouch have and how many people will get the inspiration to RC and the levels for higher double runes.

They better not make me start Livid farming from 0 again as I've unlocked the group venge :shame: edit: And the jad pet... Not sure can I be bothered to go for the zeals, I have plenty of spare fire capes though. I personally feel that this month isn't going to be that great in the end. Just a lot of spice towards old things, pets and such doesn't exactly sound my kind of a month. Btw anyone else feels like that BTS is usually the best part of an event?

No it's definitely not, you're right. I can post a screen of me getting 107 combat the day before rs2 was released, and on that list I'm 102. Also good to see you and Fook still lurking around. Was more concerned on whether it was summer 2002 or some other time than if it was just before rs2 :P Personally ended up getting 110 combat in rsc, however as I stayed there for quite a while after the launch of RS2, I was only around 105-107 when the 2nd version came. Nevertheless, managed to get 90hp and 99 magic in both versions because of that :)

as i recall upon the end of rsc zezima was in his high 80's.. last i remember he was pk level 89, at barb village maxing out fishing with mox91 I know zez was well over 100 cmbt before rsc I'm not so sure. im pretty sure he was like 113-115 he was like 95's across the board in combat and finished off combat when rs2 came out mainly when the rc skill came out That list is NOT from the moment when RS2 came. I don't remember the exact time when that list was compiled, but Kingleonardo (if my memory doesn't let me down here) compiled it in summer 2002. After that many people, including me and Zez (amongs with many others) got to 100+ cmb there, way before the transition to RS2. And I know for a fact that Zezima was at least 115 cm at RSC, will upload a picture if someone needs proof and I actually take a chance to see this topic :P

Passively working for trimmed and doing things I like. And when it comes to trimmed, don't expect it at least before late 2012 and don't book yourself any parties; more than likely it won't be fore years if I even ever get it (I don't count it as a real goal) and I never host parties.

They could just insert phats into the grand exchange. And no-one would notice it. The markets would notice it in no time due exponentally increased "sniped" phats. If it was done in small scale, it would only cause a small dip and panic and that's about it; nothing like the topic starter was dreaming about. If it was large scale, it would just cause things I listed above.

I have no intentions on going for any specific xp goals, such as 200m in all skills or so. Because of that I chose to make it a bit faster to get the cape than use the xp on "nothing".

Had saved up 7.8m+ tokens, 22 effigies, some peng points and troll invasion book for this. Finally got it (H) [12:27:29] <+[YO]RuneScript> *** [ TRACKER ]: Exp gains for Hohto in last 1day: Overall(+2) +13,517,665 | Att(109) +25,741 | Def(109) +26,064 | Str(112) +108,843 | Cns(113) +56,215 | Range(104) +2,242 | Pray(99) +1,252 | Mage(107) +20,723 | Cook(102) +7,951 | WC(101) +185,293 | Fletch(100) +112,279 | Fish(102) +19,071 | FM(101) +313,332 [12:27:35] <+[YO]RuneScript> *** [ TRACKER ]: Craft(100) +1,548 | Smith(101) +3,286 | Mine(100) +222,521 | Herb(99->100) +85,152 | Agil(100) +254,027 | Thieve(100) +31,608 | Slay(101) +17,147 | Farm(102) +244,507 | RC(99->100) +192,549 | Hunt(100) +200,294 | Con(101) +313,379 | Summon(101) +4,032 | Dungeon(118->120) +11,068,609

Why did I even bother opening this topic.... 1. First of all, that would mean that more money are being invested in other things, such as weapons and raw materials. Literally billions of gp that was saved and used to buy rares would hit the other markets. That would put a lot of pressure on other items to go up in prices due the increased demand. This possibility would also just drive merchanters to merch different items with their billions, meaning that a lot of average players would suffer from the situation. 2. What would it exactly fix? It wouldn't stabilize anything like you claim at your starting post, it would just shake the markets more than any single update has ever done. This us done for example due the affects listed above and for the fact that money should be kept in other things instead, meaning that other items would be hoarded instead. This is due the fact that the amount of money is limited to a reasonably low amount. At least I rather see the economy as the way it is and let people have a bit higher "margins" with rares than remove a lot of useful items from the markets as the money just has to be kept in some non-gp form. 3. How would it be done properly? Just one day say that all your rares were deleted or made untradeable? That would cause a huge loss of players due the fact that long time accomplishments were destroyed overnight. Not exactly something Jagex would do at their current situation, they are already suffering from the lack of customers. Give it in money? Yea, that would definitely fix it, only several max cash piles would be created overnight and due the circumstances they would more than likely hit the markets immediately, causing a higher demand of other things. Re-release them? That idea would be doomed to fail, seeing that it would just (along with economical problems mentioned earlier) cause a customer loss, in future put pressure to re-release other things and so on. The idea of re-releasing discontinueds or removing them is failed to doom because: 1. It has no real purpose. 2. It would just cause other problems 3. There's no proper method of doing it

1. Solo the map and get to the same progress as the rest of your friends. 2. Join random teams to complete certain maps. 3. Get more friends. 4. Find other alternatives than with friends only or just soloing. 5. Give it a try on something else than "elitist" teams (which basically equals for twice faster maps...) teams. Based on your current dg level, I'm relatively sure you haven't gotten closer to proper elite teams than just seeing them vanish from the lobby or told you to train around 13m xp more. Notice that being in an elite team is not a synonym for being in a team that does not like people doing wrong things. At w117 there are virtually no elite teams and barely any good teams are formed there, but there can be teams too where you will get feedback when you do wrong things. Next time you do something team based, find other alternatives too than just go with the flow and complain when a currency throws you off the track.

Lets see. You can: - See the game you created being played by hundreds of millions of different people. - Own over 500 million pounds because of something you created. - Got the reputation of being a "guru" amongs rs players and especially at the software groups. - Hire enough staff to fullfill even your wildest dreams. or you can: - See the game you created being played by 1% of the players it could be played by. - Own just enough to make living and not even being independed to be sure you can put all your time on the thing you created. - Be known at UG-gaming groups. - Do basically everything by yourself and due lack of time and possibly skills miss the things you wanted You realize that Andrew is still doing a lot for Jagex and he's the main stock owner. It's not like he had exactly "sold it", he still is the main party the CEO has to answer to, he works for the company and so on.

In other words you're accepting something that shouldn't be there with the logic that it helps certain group of people. I personally see it as something that hurts one part of the people. Lets think it like this. If the supply and demand were in balance, we'd have an equilibrium. That would benefit two parties: the ones who buy the raw materials and the ones who sell them. However when the supply is rigged by these "sweatshoppers", one side gets an unfair advantage. As you brought the sweatshops up, think it like this: an unfair method of competing gives an advantage to one supplier and thus taking out the local producers. This means that the customer gets a bit cheaper clothes, legit producers have to either go out of business, lack efficiency or start using similar methods. In my opinion the right answer would to weed the sweatshops and let the customers pay the "right" price that's a result of fair competition. Noticed you didn't either read the replies or put them wrong way. At #2 I was talking about training spots, not hiscores. However as you wanted to go with the hiscores first, lets do it. I'm not talking about myself. If you look at the feedback that came when RSC never got the longwaited hiscores, you should realize one thing: they are wanted by multiple people. If you look at a huge number of suggestions from players and actions from Jagex, you can notice a trend of enlarging the hiscores (frequent updates to make them larger and to include more things, such as pvp activity and minigames) coming out. There are clear indicators that hiscores are needed and it's not my personal opinion. The public has voiced the opinion and Jagex has followed it. As you liked hiscores, here's the actual #2. Also when you compare leeching the training spots to the public opinion of hiscores, I don't really know what are you on about. The only way to justify the ruining of training spots by bots is to accept botting. Basically what you're saying is that "people who hunt don't matter as long as I get my red chins a bit cheaper". Again you're putting the good of the few infront of the many. However the funniest part in my opinion is the fact that hunters have really limited methods to train hunting efficiently whereas rangers have multiple good choices for chinning. In other words you aren't just putting the two parties into different categories, you're now even more widening the cap between the two. In my opinion any sane company follows the rules they've set to themselves and to their players, even if it forces them to put more effort on it. If the guidelines are something between "you can't bot but we won't really do anything", it will affect to the players who are more likely to be longtime customers. Why? Because they don't get the same benefits as people who get Mao Chi Pol to auto for them or sell them an autoed account. It devaluates your own effort and removes fun of it. The same thing happened already to RSC and autoing (despite being "illegal", being not punished actively) basically killed the game. Also if you even passively accept autoing, you have to realize it brings up many other non-wanted phenomenas too as people auto for a reason. * RWT trade - Selling the accounts that have been trained to you, selling their money (for example trading 1:1 to junk in a trade) and so on. Already similar things have caused Jagex serious problems from the CC companies. * Damage done to the company image - The less Jagex cares about botting, the more popular it comes. RSC was a great example. The more advanced 3rd party programs people use, the higher chances there are for malicious softwares to spread. Again, seen in RSC and other games. It wouldn't help the company image at all if a large number of players got hacked "due RS", as kids would tell to their parents. A title "1000 webbanks hacked - RS bot to blame" wouldn't look too great. * Customer support - Both of these things would cause more traffic to the CS than the current. The hacking and scamming situations would go up exponentially as the guidelines would make it so much easier. Same time the cases would be harder to hand than the current "player X is botting" or "player Y said this". Also you do realize that Jagex is a limited company designed to make profit. I'm more than sure that a company with their revenue and employer rates have done enough calculations and "games" to figure out that their current guidelines are economically the best one for them. They don't have their guidelines just so it would be "fair and fun", they have the money at the backround too. Again, RSC was a good example. When RS2 came, it wasn't worth it to staff the customer support anymore in a large enough scale. Mod Mark and few randomers could do enough for them and even though botting was against the rules, the chances to get caught were so limited that people pulled out even maxed out accounts that were more or less 100% autoed. Why didn't Jagex hire more staff to stop autoing? Because even though it would have been "fair", it would have increased the costs and wouldn't have been economically justifiable.

You do realize few things: 1. Bots are affecting to the supply of raw materials in a huge scale. This means the rigged supply drops the prices and forces legit people to either stick on inefficient methods (= compete with autoers) or just accept the fact that cheating has taken down one method. Basically by accepting botting you accept the fact that people are forced to get raw materials from botters, do non-buyables through non-profit methods and gain money from pvm/pvp/merchanting. If the market system worked perfectly, the supply wouldn't be rigged and the people in need of raw materials would have more choices: either get it by yourself (as it would be more efficient than now) or buy from a cast of people that basically doesn't exist at the moment. In other words: if there was no bots, people could actually get more for their yew logs and thus moneymaking and skilling methods wouldn't be so limited as they are now. Also removing bots would mean a fairer dividation between the ones who supply and the ones who are supplied. 2. Botting is away from skillers. Look at hunter for example. First of all their achievments are devalued as the levels are more common and there's in some cases (i.e. when you have mid levels in most of the skills and 99 hunter) a huge doubt casted over the methods you used. This doesn't exactly encourage people to train the skill: there are easier capes to get and as they are generally macrofree (compare the number of autocookers to autohunters for example), they don't give you the same judging. On the second thing: certain things have become more or less painful for legit players to do. As we used hunter as an example, lets stick on it. If you want to train your hunter, the actual skilling methods are really limited. The 2nd problem is that the most common hunter spot is crowded as the night club's toilet due autoers. In other words training certain skills is either really painful due artificial activity at the very few useable spots or you have to rely on secondary methods. 3. It rigs hiscores. Ok sure, basically hiscores are correctly showing the order of the people. However it fails in one thing: it doesn't tell you are you the one who has actually worked 1005065th hardest for mining for example: there are multiple accounts out there that have gained unfair advantage by using third party programs to boost their performance and thus appears to be higher on the lists. People actually do care about hiscores and the way how they've been jumping from "best of the server" and "top 1k" to "top millions" just shows it. 4. Autoing takes up server space and customer support resources. This means that productive hours and resources are being wasted on things that shouldn't be there in the first place. Sure it might sound "nothing" if few people waste in total ~10 working hours per day looking at macro reports and few people do fulltime antimacro programming. However all that time could be put on more productive things, such as game engine updates and other customer support related issues.

Basically you flamed someone for their IRL looks, blamed someone for breaking rs rules and in the end you encouraged someone to kill himself. Just because you know him doesn't mean you could go past the lines: the things you say matter more than the people you tell them about. I personally can't blame anyone for a) reporting you B) taking actions against you. The only one to blame is you and your ridicilous "chat". And your appeal isn't even funny btw.

The thing is, trade limits affect to everyone while MA can be avoided. Nothing forces me to waste my time there, but the trade limits force me to obey them. Anyways, I have to agree with Creaphis. The gameplay itself is absolutely horrible and the rewards are more or less useless unless you feel like wasting 50 hours. In my opinion a minigame shouldn't be like this: they should be either funny or at least rewarding. MA is not funny at all and the rewarding part can be questioned too.

They are unorthodox Zerker's quests though. I personally did both on mine as I'm going for turmoil, but many don't. Not to mention that they don't give any def xp, so they're safe to do later on. However I'd personally do defender of Varrock, no matter did I plan on staying at 52/53 pray or going for 95: it opens a good training spot for zerkers and if you ever decide to go for curses, it's a mandatory. If I did a mandatory quest list for a zerker, I'd include in: The Blood Pact A Soul's Bane In Search of the Myreque Heroes' Quest In Aid of the Myreque Nature Spirit What Lies Below The Fremennik Trials Between a rock... Defender of Varrock Dragon Slayer These ones give defence xp. Because of this they are the quests you should do first, no matter. Of course some of them are subquests to the following ones and some have subquests, but those are the quests that give defence xp and can be done without going past 45. As for prayer, same thing applies if you plan to get 43,52 or anything else that's low: Rag and Bone Man Making History Recruitment Drive Restless Ghost Priest in Peril Fur 'n' Seek Land of the Goblins Mountain Daughter Ghosts Ahoy Another slice of H.A.M Spirit of Summer The Great Brain Robbery Missing My Mummy Rum Deal Spirits of the Elid Swan Song The Temple At Senntisten (50 pray req) I left out the Spirit's end for a reason. It requires 55 prayer and if you want to go for higher than 55, it becomes obvious that you might want to do that quest. For Dealing with Scabaras, I'm quite unsure what to do. I personally have 260 qp on my zerker and haven't done it for one reason: after it you can get Scabaras for a slay task from Shilo. I personally valued the lack of that task more than the pray xp gotten for now. However if my plan was to stay at 52, I'd do it immediately: it might be required in some future quest. Basically these are on the "must do" list. Sure you could get your RFD gloves without some, but if you plan on staying at 45 def and 52 pray for example, doing these give you a competitive advantage in the future. If I hadn't done defender of Varrock on my nub for example, I would have been forced to take 46 def or stop planning to get curses. After these the quests are quite obvious: For lunars there are no threats, only a quest chain to follow. Same with RFD and ancients. Want fairy rings? Sure go ahead, it's safe after these quests.

Cooking. All the time someone, either another player or voice inside your head, reminds you that the skill is worth nothing and if you go for it, you're nothing too.

On dragon plate I agree, for pure defensive stats barrows offer similar stats and if you don't plan to be in combat for thousands of hours, they're cheaper too. However for the torso vs bandos argument I disagree with. Getting a torso is currently around 6-8 hours and making around a mil per hour isn't too hard. This means that if I now pay 25m for my bandos body, I can sell it for 20m later on and still have more money. Not to mention the body saves food while training or killing bosses, which might be the difference between a succesfull boss monster trip and a free teleport to Lumby/Fally/wherever you spawn. I personally see only 1 reason to have a fighter torso: you're a zerker pure. For others I wouldn't suggest it. Or you dont feel like spending 25m, that you could be spending on other gear (tassets) or skills, on a +4 strength bonus. I personally see items such as Bandos armours as sort of "investments". For me they aren't something that I'd buy now and then keep in the bank and letting them to collect dust. I don't exactly "spend" 25 millions on them, I'd just put 25m "aside" and then sell the blade when I needed to buy some other skills. How does that differ in the end from buying herbs and selling pots for example? You buy a way to get xp to a certain skill, during the process your money is in the bought things and once you're done, you sell the ending productions. The only difference is the thing that during this process your tool doesn't change form. I also don't see how the tasset argument works. Lets say that I put all my money on tassets. * I work for 6-8 hours to get the torso. After I'm done with my activities, I get nothing back. Now after maxing melee I want to buy 99 prayer and need 100m gp to get it. This means 106-108 hours of work. * I work for 25 hours to get 25m. I buy the plate, do my activities and sell the plate for 22m. Now I want the same 100m for prayer. I have 22m so I need 78m more. This takes me 78+25=103. In that example the chest plate is a bit better option. If we add in the advantages gotten from having less food and getting moreskill xp gotten from making the money, cbestplate becomes far more efficient than a torso. Of course it's argueable wether it's better than the barrow armours in a long run, but that's a subject for some other debate. I was saying that If you only have ~30m and want a high strength bonus for slaying or whatever, you'd be better off getting tassets and a torso, unless you can reliable make 4.5m per hour. I've tried to figure out when the torso is actually better. Feel free to add new scenarios where it fits, but here are the only actual ones I could thing of. Of course I'm now getting a bit off topic and including other armours too. 1. You're going to train your slayer to 99. Do you want to save food and time (assuming the chest doesn't fall below 18 or so mils) or not? I'd say that without a doubt you'd go for the chest plate, even if it made you start slaying a day or two later. Or of course you could slay with a torag body and get the money from drops instead of spending a day or two at BA. 2. You're going to train "some" slayer (meaning it's enough to call it hard work but not even close of getting to 99). Again, do you choose to work 6-8 hours on something else or do you rather just slay with what you have or not? If you can afford the chest, sure you can buy it. After all unless it totally crashes within the next ge update, it saves time (and time is money) when compared to torso. If you can't afford it, why not just slay with barrows? 3. You want to kill Sara/bandos/Zammy GW bosses. Do you really spend a day or two at BA or just slay the bosses with a torag body until you have managed to get money for the plate? Notice, the 6-8h is away from your boss killing and you can always sell the torag body! Lets do some calculations. If reaching your goal takes 50 hours 50k/h and it takes 7 hours to take the torso. Without: 50h*50k = 2,5m xp With: As it takes you 7 hours to take, you should do 2,5m/(100-7) = 58 140xp per hour to be worth it. At 100h rate it's close to 53k. However at those numbers the bandos chest becomes more efficient. In other words, it depends on your own goal wether you should use a barrow body or the bandos chest. Like those calculations show, there's no rational reason to get a torso if the defence reqs aren't a problem. If you're going to do some random slaying, barrows or even rune plate is your choice. If you're going for some more dedicated thing, bandos chest is yours.

On dragon plate I agree, for pure defensive stats barrows offer similar stats and if you don't plan to be in combat for thousands of hours, they're cheaper too. However for the torso vs bandos argument I disagree with. Getting a torso is currently around 6-8 hours and making around a mil per hour isn't too hard. This means that if I now pay 25m for my bandos body, I can sell it for 20m later on and still have more money. Not to mention the body saves food while training or killing bosses, which might be the difference between a succesfull boss monster trip and a free teleport to Lumby/Fally/wherever you spawn. I personally see only 1 reason to have a fighter torso: you're a zerker pure. For others I wouldn't suggest it. Or you dont feel like spending 25m, that you could be spending on other gear (tassets) or skills, on a +4 strength bonus. I personally see items such as Bandos armours as sort of "investments". For me they aren't something that I'd buy now and then keep in the bank and letting them to collect dust. I don't exactly "spend" 25 millions on them, I'd just put 25m "aside" and then sell the blade when I needed to buy some other skills. How does that differ in the end from buying herbs and selling pots for example? You buy a way to get xp to a certain skill, during the process your money is in the bought things and once you're done, you sell the ending productions. The only difference is the thing that during this process your tool doesn't change form. I also don't see how the tasset argument works. Lets say that I put all my money on tassets. * I work for 6-8 hours to get the torso. After I'm done with my activities, I get nothing back. Now after maxing melee I want to buy 99 prayer and need 100m gp to get it. This means 106-108 hours of work. * I work for 25 hours to get 25m. I buy the plate, do my activities and sell the plate for 22m. Now I want the same 100m for prayer. I have 22m so I need 78m more. This takes me 78+25=103. In that example the chest plate is a bit better option. If we add in the advantages gotten from having less food and getting moreskill xp gotten from making the money, cbestplate becomes far more efficient than a torso. Of course it's argueable wether it's better than the barrow armours in a long run, but that's a subject for some other debate.