I'm in the same boat, I'm afraid. I'll gladly butt out of the thread if you'd like it focus on the dilemma at hand, by the way. I'm interested, how would you join the discussion without a belief in God? (Just because internet emotions aren't always clear - I'm being completely sincere right now. :P ) Hehe, quite alright mate :P With the absence of God (or a divine right) it leaves the interpretation of "morally good" to be subjective, making it difficult to define it and apply to everyone. But merely on a personal point of view, I share a psychological belief of the body being an active agent. There may be environmental or biological triggers, but ultimately, everyone has the capability to behave for themselves. The equivalent would be God's gift of free will. I believe a person does not necessarily learn through what they choose to do, i.e. a bad behaviour being punished (morally wrong, as it were) thus not being willed to be done again, cannot always be applied. At the same time, I believe that the spirit, the soul of the person, does not have a pre-disposition to know what is morally good. I mention spirit because while I may not believe in "God" or a God, I believe there was some creative force, but it has no direct control over my soul. To be perfectly honest, mate, I'm confuzzled. :P The dilemma has never troubled me so much as to think about it, and I'm stopping the thinking now, as I've realised my thoughts are incomprehendable >.< I accept that moral rights are different for everyone, because the different things everyone believes, and I must respect each and every one's. That's as far as the dilemma applies to me.