The_Gabe

Amazon is very reliable. We order from it almost every week.

KKK =/= extremist? By the time of the civil rights movement, the KKK was not very active and only had a few incidents relating to them reported. So my statement still stands.

Bad choice for Egypt. Dislike.

Then please suggest a way to accomplish the objectives set without harming citizens? Ask Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Ask them for me. Ghandi the great man of peace rejects zionism http://www.twf.org/News/Y2001/0815-GandhiZionism.html Martin Luther King showed by his actions that he would have rejected violent means to achieve an end. Except that Ghandi's philosophy was unity, in which it failed. And for MLK, I would have liked to see him use non violence against extremest.

Thanks. That comment was much needed.

Then please suggest a way to accomplish the objectives set without harming citizens? Ask Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Ask them for me.

I can honestly say that my respect of the Israeli state has diminished even more, if this actually happened. Like the Irish Republicans, I cannot respect such actions, whether they issued warnings before carrying them out or not. I honestly don't think the respect of one person matters, but ok. Then please suggest a way to accomplish the objectives set without harming citizens?

You seemed to forget that the bombing was called in and gave them a warning to evacuate, which they refused, and it was a response to Operation Agatha. This is another difference between the Jewish extremist and the Palestinian terrorist. Jews warned before they attacked. They had a target it involved the British headquarters. Incidence like this happen all the time where the British were warned to remove their troops and have the target blown up, that is how you fight not by blowing yourself up in a cafe. lol. Such good Samaritans. --- My view: Jews had no more of a right to "return to their homeland" than any other ethnic group in history that was displaced from their country. Israel isn't an angel, and it's frustrating that a lot of people want to ignore all of the negative things that Israel has done; I have sympathy for the Palestinians because they were living in that land before Israel was formed. It's also frustrating that the Israeli government is so adamant in their stance that there can be no Middle East peace negotiations (don't be naive; there can be no peace deal unless the Israeli government changes its attitude). This stance is likely to escalate conflicts in the region, and as an American, I am obviously concerned about states such as Iran that would wish to destroy the Israeli state. I don't want my country dragged into a war over a battle that is Israel's to fight. Native Americans were living in the United States before Europeans came and kicked them out? Are you saying that everything America has done is wrong? By the way, Palestinians were forced to leave; they chose to. Israel is trying to persuade peace. 2 prime exams of that are the treaties with Jordan and Egypt. And the whole world is afraid of Iran's nuclear programs (I'm assuming that's what you mean). It's not just Israel.

You see soldiers rapelling down from a helicoper onto your ship and they are carrying guns. Do you think your going to notice if they are carrying paintball guns or m16s or whatever the IDF is outfitted with? Or are you just going to react? Except every other ship in this convoy was searched and IDF brings painball guns while doing this. Once more, not the right topic.

When they are armed and illegally invading your property, yes, it does give you the right to combat them. Also, you posted the video, don't go saying "there's a thread for that" now. Except the facts that those weapons were paintball guns. I posted it as a show of propaganda and the fact certain people are still only accepting facts of one side. I'm not trying to drag the discussion back in time to a previous thread. What is there to explain? Which part do you think needs further explanation? How are they oppressed by the Israeli government? Seeing as people in West Bank and Gaza Strip have the 3/14th best life expectancy out of the major Muslim countries. They are not being oppressed by the Israeli government as much as by their leaders. I've had that avatar for several months. Once more, thank you for the constructive post. Nice save. Thank you, because that's exactly what I was trying to do :rolleyes:

Yes.

I promised myself I wasn't going to post here. Then I saw the first minute of that video. Do I need to go back and bump the mavi mamara thread where it explained about all the things that israel doesn't let into gaza, which is why that convoy left in the first place? And that no matter how you put it since the convoy was in international waters that attack was an act of piracy, at the very least, and the crew aboard that ship had every right to defend themselves. So when someone doesn't threaten you, you have a right to combat them? Anyways, this is getting off topic so drop that subject. There was already a thread for that as you stated. It isn't only Israel, Its also The USA, Also in the Canadian terrorist list and The EU has Hamas and a few other terrorist groups to. So its not only Israel i think they really are a terrorist organization Doesn't make it any less opressive. Explain.

Yep. The flotilla in which Israeli soldiers were attacked on for no reason. You just showed me how one sided you are just from that 1 sentence. Well done.

Since everyone seems to be posting videos now, I'll post a video about an event in the past in which Israel was unfairly blamed. Lovely song, really.

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British. Palestinians are defending themselves from the tyranny of Jewish occupation [see what I did there?] Well done. =D> tyr·an·ny/ˈtirənē/Noun 1. Cruel and oppressive government or rule. 2. A nation under such cruel and oppressive government Yeah.. No. Palestinian leaders=/=Israeli government.

The Americans defended themselves from the tyranny of the British. I'm not going to defend the actions in that video, but I'm not going to condemn them until all facts are put on the table. Yes, there are people like that, but they are not common. Post Israelis want peace and to be recognized as a country and with the negotiations they still offered painful sacrifices , but the Palestinians still demand the annihilation of the Zionist entity. Want proof? The PLO Charter and the Hamas Charter say it all. You seemed to forget that the bombing was called in and gave them a warning to evacuate, which they refused, and it was a response to Operation Agatha.

Civilians are going to get hurt. If the Hezbollah hides behind citizens, and the citizens let them, then it's inevitable. You're talking like this is the only war in which citizens get hurt. Guess what? Every war and conflict has civilian casualties. Yeah, and then they hide weapons in them. Once again, the Hezbollah are not innocent. Here's a quotation from an article which can some up my views about it. In the four years since then, Hezbollah has pursued a tactic of moving their weapons into civilian villages, essentially institutionalising the tactic of using human shields on a large scale, the military said. Source: http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=/data/middleeast/2010/July/middleeast_July126.xml&section=middleeast No side is innocent. I'll finish up the rest later; I have to go for now.

This is your topic. You created it after you saw that the San Fransisco topic was getting beat. Even though you created this topic for the wrong reasons, at least post something constructive in it. What the [bleep]? I created this topic because we're studying it in school and I wanted other views. Point one = utterly false. Second, I was simply offering my view on the link. I'm attempting to stay out of this discussion until I know more about it. Would you rather I made stupid posts based on incomplete information? No? Then shut up. I would have rather a person who knows about a subject create a topic on it for a legitimate purpose.

Then good thing it's not up to you. mad bro I am not, thank you for asking.

Actually, it was not the Palestinians choice. They were lucky to be asked if they would, but the British did not have to ask them. Here's a reminder: the British controlled Palestine during that time. Palestinians had a right to return for a few years at least. However, there wasn't much of a point leaving unoccupied areas vacant. The Israeli population was growing. You seem to be thinking that Israel is the only party that supposedly has war crimes. Palestinians committed numerous war crimes as well. http://www.omdurman.org/warcrime.html Once again, no party is innocent. Okay, at this part I laughed. SIBERIA? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? WHY NOT JUST MOVE THE PALESTINIANS TO THE NORTH POLE WHILE WE'RE AT IT! I mean seriously, Siberia? What the [bleep]. I seem to be blind? Is that what you think? Coming from a person who is neglecting all the acts of the Arabs and Palestinians and calling them innocent. Hypocrisy, thy name is you. On top of that, I started in my last post that no side was innocent. Yeah, but someone who is 2 years older than me can sure judge me like that. Once more, hypocrisy. Ha, genocide. That's hilarious. I hope some day Palestinians can take a good look at themselves and see how all the mistakes and condescension they've made turned a compromiseable situation into an ongoing conflict such as this. And lastly This is your topic. You created it after you saw that the San Fransisco topic was getting beat. Even though you created this topic for the wrong reasons, at least post something constructive in it. EDIT: Might be off topic, but TrueBeaver, I was disappointied ya'll canceled on us today :[

It looks like Isreal63 perfectly understood your posts. You're asking about inconsistent evidence? You're providing narratives about your own personal lives. Those aren't facts. Ignorance and blind belief are the two plagues of the Middle East. That I can agree with. No party is innocent; however, trying to blame it all on Israel is quite freckly, ignorant of you. Lastly, this thread has not shown a "decent demonstration to people who might not have made up their minds". I can clearly see minds being made up, and facts coming along with them. TIFers, I present to you the anti-Zionist, Niffin, who is the type of the person overlooking facts and being influenced by complains of a few unjust actions while attempting to support peace and security.

Then good thing it's not up to you.

Yet, even though as it was encouraged by the Arab countries to leave Israel until they beat them, it was Palestine Arab Higher Committee who asked the countries not to permit visas and such in those countries. It is not Israel's fault that some countries did not grant them citizenship. The fact that there are refuges now is not the problem of Israel. It was Palestinian mistakes that lead them up to this point. You say that Palestinians were forced out of their homes by gunpoint. No, really? After you win a battle (not a war, mind you), you usually want to evacuate the people related to the aggressors even if they weren't involved. The U.S put Japanese in camps also during WWII when Pearl Harbor occurred; this is just a strategy to secure an area. Jobs are not plentiful. There are many Israelis living in the country. What to know something that's called the real world? Most Jewish people would probably hire other Jews over Arabs. That's simply how the world works; and I can assure you, it's not just people in Israel. So you're saying because of a false decision by the Palestinians, Israel has to permit them back? It is the Arab leaders responsibility if they encouraged them to leave. Now you make me laugh. Show aggression towards other neighboring countries? Is it Israel's fault also that they were attacked on every side when they declared independence? They made and kept a peace treaty with Jordan and others so try and avoid violence. Above reply stands on this issue, but also if you want a list of victims from Israeli side because of Palestinians "inhumanities" then there's a site for you. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc.htm Go ahead and blame it on the Jews again. I get it; we've always been the ones to be blamed in history.

Not just you. Happened to me last night also.

I think we will live.