The_Gabe

Study more?

Add my marker in Clarksville, TN, Usa please?

Brb.

This is obviously gonna get nowhere like the other times in this thread. Anyways, I'm heading out for the week so ciao.

Might not have been the best example, but the point still stands. Lovely article, would be a shame if you didn't read the rest of it yourself. Lovely, truly lovely. I said that statement because it's been mentioned and discussed on this thread and on a thread by itself already. I'd just have to be repeating myself. Way to miss the point again. So according to your logic, instead of trying something again because it failed, you're saying [bleep] it it's not gonna work. Watch the video I posted about Netanyahu. http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/05/palestinian-protests-on-israels-borders/100067/ Indeed, such a peaceful protest it was. Sure it does. Facts are facts. If you don't consider something true, you look back at the facts. And it looks like the facts point the other way. Not massacred, but the Israel army did force some of them out so they could secure the regions. The billions upon billions in supplies covers their basic needs and goes even further. What you're seeing is just propaganda. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=40761

Sup Tennessee buddy. Added mine.

It's not. 2 Individuals can say that Obama is a socialist but that doesn't make it true. Ahh, let us go ahead and pull out the flotilla card. The ship among a convoy of ships who all let us search them, but when we came on board the Mavi Marmara, our unit, CARRYING PAINTBALL GUNS, was attacked by the so called humanists. You're telling me that's a bad thing? As I said before, if Israel is getting rockets fired from land they've given back after conquering while the land is blockaded, than I don't want to know what would happen if you lifted the blockade in this current point of time before nothing is done. Israel is allowed to build there. Watch this video to help you understand why. Don't worry, there are English subtitles. No proof what so ever to back up what you say. You're not even giving examples anymore, you're just spewing what you think. The citizens have their basic needs, but they also have a terrorist group as their leaders... They rarely break international law, but you just have to study up on it to understand why. Yet they were never driven out. They had decided to leave and come back when the Arab countries won the war.

I can't answer to the Muslim countries, but in terms of the US, we celebrate more and more independent holidays and we also celebrate Jewish holidays - Yom Kippur for example. And in terms of holidays being Christian, they are becoming more and more about general feelings of goodwill and generosity and less about religion or the story behind it. Many kids don't even know the story behind Christmas (trivia: Jesus was not born on December 25) and fewer know the story behind Easter. Thanksgiving is now completely non-religious, as is Valentines day. Rosh Hashanah is also given as a free day usually, whereas Good Friday is not. I'm not giving any of those days off so I have to skip school to honor them.

It is a big deal. 2 individuals will do nothing towards your point. I'm not going to bother comparing two leaders because that'd be pointless. If they're firing rockets at Israel with the blockade taking place, imagine what would happen if the blockade was removed. Do you think I honestly condemn what Menachem has done? This is about twenty years ago though, and Netanyahu is taking steps in the right direction to fix the problems and try and establish peace. This part made me laugh. Looking into the 21st century, what have you seen? The United States is mostly Christian and celebrates Christian holidays. Muslim countries are mostly Muslim and celebrate Muslim holidays. And guess what? Israel is mostly Jewish state and celebrates Jewish holidays.

Eh, what I'm waiting for is for Crocefisso to actually back up the information he's using with links.

Read my previous posts. Also, I was making a point referring to another thread with that comment.

Yeah, I posted about him earlier. So [bleep]ing terrible. I like some of his stuff :oops:

omg why are you such a nazi? go back to germany you fascist racist :angry: :ohnoes: :mellow: Read an article by Melanie Phillips on Israel and you'll see what I mean. She basically says that the media lie to us and try to create a sense of sympathy for Arabs, whom she calls aggressors, because it has a deep rooted anti-Semitic bias and intends to spread hatred towards Israel. She says that all attacks on Israeli foreign policy are rooted in anti-Semitic sentiments. These are the sort of irrational people I am talking about. Then there are people like Menachem Begin, whose most famous quote is: "Our race (speaking of the Jews) is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." On a less intelligent level, Israeli PM Netanyahu likes to throw the phrase around whenever he can, usually in press conferences when he's running out of his stock phrases (if you look at different interviews from the same period of time by Netanyahu, you'll see that he just seems to learn a few stock phrases for all interviews). Perhaps I worded it poorly, but can you honestly deny that accusations of anti-Semitism are bandied around by people in defence of Israel, in place of thought out answers, rather too often for comfort? No, but I am seeing you use just a few examples of people who go far beyond what is needed. There are people who said the Germans were the superior race. There are people who say Americans are superior race. Do we listen to them? Also, the media may be incorrect in those rare cases, but that's with every country. I also can tell you know little of the situation because you're saying antisemitism instead of anti-Zionism. Netanyahu is a smart man, and if you think he does use similar phrases, it means they are important. All leaders do it. I do not know why you're focused on single individuals. You seem to be really one sided.

Hypocrisy, thy name is you.

They are allowed to live there. Some of them may not be allowed to go back to their homes, but the security threats of the situation is real. So attempting to destroy a whole nation when it declared independence is better than not allowing some of the people who used to live there and fled so they can return when Israel was destroyed come back? Yet when the Arabs controlled the city, they did not allow Jews to go to our holy places, and they destroyed synagogues and desecrated cemeteries. It's not Israel's government that's bigotry and arrogant, it's just you and your lack of knowledge on the issue. As someone has said to you before; don't try and lecture me about my own country. As we're talking about terrorist groups, did you know that Palestinians have terrorist groups as their allies? Most densely populated area of the land on the planet? Are you being serious now? Please tell me how it's densely populated. Next, if we remove the blockade from Gaza, what do you think will happen? Also, if you want to talk about the flotilla, there's a whole thread about it already. Spewing up a few one-sided and actually lies about what happened does not make your statement any better. Also, Turkey, a country which have oppressed the Kurds for decades, while the population of the Kurds far exceeds both the populations of Israel and Palestine, should not be trusted in this hypocritical situation at all. Lastly, I have already a given you a link for the thread about Israel. If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest we do it there so we won't go off topic.

What the [bleep]. Leave Israel out of this unless you want to go back to here. His post was directed at the ICC. I'm not seeing the problem with it being posted here, it's hardly irrelevant. Seriously, if your style of arguing is just going to be 'Don't say [cabbage] about Israel' then you won't contribute very much to these discussions. You're surely not suggesting that if evidence was found to implicate members of the IDF in war crimes, that they shouldn't have a trial simply for the fact they're from Israel, are you? Uhh... I'm saying get the facts straight before posting such an outrages claim. Also, this thread's about Qaddafi. If you want, we can go back to the other thread and talk about what you would consider crimes.

Handegg. Perfect name amirite?

What the [bleep]. Leave Israel out of this unless you want to go back to here.

It's not real football.

I'm not going to be able to post much longer on this thread, seeing as any real debating has gone to [cabbage]. All I read the past three pages are nonsense skewing of facts and throwing accusations at each other. NEITHER SIDE IS INNOCENT. It doesn't matter who killed more of who, but in this conflict, it's a matter of who is going to survive it in the end.

But by saying "the victors write history" when talking about an ongoing conflict you're just making up a justification for using any means to win, and that's what Israel is doing by violating human rights. Wrong. I am making a generalization, not stating it on this conflict alone. Point still stands, you're saying that it's OK to apply that to this conflict. Also, bringing up religion in an argument? Lol, no. I thought God gave us free will just so we don't have to listen to him. Forget that, I think he made a good point. If everyone who calls themself Israeli can directly prove their relation to Abraham and that God promised them the land of Israel with 2011 borders I support their right to be there. Otherwise I say that I am a decendant of Abraham and that God referred only to a 5 mile square of land. Also arent the arabs supposed to be decendants of Abraham too? :lol: We are the descendants of Isaac and Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael. Prove your heritage. Otherwise I too can say that I am a descendant of Isaac. It is written in the Torah. That's proof enough. My mother is a 7th generation born Israeli. I don't have to prove my heritage to you, or anyone else.

But by saying "the victors write history" when talking about an ongoing conflict you're just making up a justification for using any means to win, and that's what Israel is doing by violating human rights. Wrong. I am making a generalization, not stating it on this conflict alone. Point still stands, you're saying that it's OK to apply that to this conflict. Also, bringing up religion in an argument? Lol, no. I thought God gave us free will just so we don't have to listen to him. Forget that, I think he made a good point. If everyone who calls themself Israeli can directly prove their relation to Abraham and that God promised them the land of Israel with 2011 borders I support their right to be there. Otherwise I say that I am a decendant of Abraham and that God referred only to a 5 mile square of land. Also arent the arabs supposed to be decendants of Abraham too? :lol: We are the descendants of Isaac and Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael.

Damn straight we do. Existing means doing anything necessity to stay alive and be a country that stands on it's own and has the strength to defend itself from the hatred of the Arab world. They want the Jews dead. Actually this thread is a prefect example of how complicated this conflict is. In reality, it shows that both sides are blind to all the details, all the hardships from both sides. Your personal experiences do not matter at all to me. I have seen many, many reasonable Israeli families. So what does that have to do with anything? The only way to solve the conflict is through negotiations. Palestine is easily throwing that solution away by having the Hamas as an ally and not recognizing an independent state of Israel. That's called life in a war zone. People have been doing it for centuries. I don't see how this is anything different. There are people like that all over the world. 2 Examples will not change anything. If you say so... Yup, and being allies with terrorists sure delivers this message. Sure there are. Russians under Lenin, the people of Pakistan, etc. We love our homeland as well. What makes them any different than we? Now this made me laugh. Did you know that in America you can join the army after high school also? The purpose of the IDF is to protect the people, not to kill innocent people. We learn how to be a carpenter, or a metalworker, or a plumber afterward. We need a force to protect ourselves, and we do just that. All countries do. Ones again, I don't care your personal stories. They don't justify or should even be considered here. Go do that. It's good to see you're doing something good for your cause. Yet, calling people idiots because they don't agree with you will not get you far in life. Can you prove that you are a descendant of Abraham? Also what was the land god referred to? A few acres or 100's of miles? Hundreds of miles. But by saying "the victors write history" when talking about an ongoing conflict you're just making up a justification for using any means to win, and that's what Israel is doing by violating human rights. Wrong. I am making a generalization, not stating it on this conflict alone. Point still stands, you're saying that it's OK to apply that to this conflict. Also, bringing up religion in an argument? Lol, no. I thought God gave us free will just so we don't have to listen to him. I almost never bring religion into arguments, but have you forgotten that this whole conflict is about religion?

So basically you are trying to say the Jewish State of Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Good to know where you stand. I do believe Israel shouldn't have been created. They should have either be sent back to where they lived before the holocaust, or if they wanted to be in that land, the should have gotten a palestinian citizenship. Then there would be no Israeli state, the palestinians would still have their lands, and ta-dah, conflict avoided. I do believe America shouldn't have been created. They should either be sent back to where they lived before exploration, or if they wanted to be in that land, they should have become Native Americans. There would be no America, and the Native Americans would still have their land, and ta-dah, conflict avoided. Do you realize how absurd you sound? So you're OK with killing indians and taking their lands. It was a totally moral thing to do. Their fault for not having gunpowder, right? With your argument anyone can expropiate anything from anyone "because". Yes, it is wrong. No, but here's the thing -I'm a realist. You aren't. Victors write history, and the weak die out in the end. It's been like this throughout history. That's how the world has been shaped. Are you going to come and tell me that everything in history is morally wrong? Hey, while we're at it, lets just blow up the world so nothing immoral would exist. Is that what you want? Nah try and follow a golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated. Would you like it if some state with overwhelming military power built themselves atop your home? "God promised Abraham simply, "To your descendants I will give this land" (Genesis 12:7). " It is Jewish land. So, in the hypothetical case where Palestinians took back their lands, and killed all the jewish that were there, you'd be A-OK with it, because hey! They won! No one said I would be ok with it, but if that's what happens, then what's what happens. That's actually the theoretical reason of why we are like we are now. Heavy security and an extraordinary army, along with the fight for Democracy is the reason we are still up and kicking. I don't do hypothetical cases, because the odds of them happening like you intended them to are so low it's not even worth thinking about. But by saying "the victors write history" when talking about an ongoing conflict you're just making up a justification for using any means to win, and that's what Israel is doing by violating human rights. Wrong. I am making a generalization, not stating it on this conflict alone.

So basically you are trying to say the Jewish State of Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Good to know where you stand. I do believe Israel shouldn't have been created. They should have either be sent back to where they lived before the holocaust, or if they wanted to be in that land, the should have gotten a palestinian citizenship. Then there would be no Israeli state, the palestinians would still have their lands, and ta-dah, conflict avoided. I do believe America shouldn't have been created. They should either be sent back to where they lived before exploration, or if they wanted to be in that land, they should have become Native Americans. There would be no America, and the Native Americans would still have their land, and ta-dah, conflict avoided. Do you realize how absurd you sound? So you're OK with killing indians and taking their lands. It was a totally moral thing to do. Their fault for not having gunpowder, right? With your argument anyone can expropiate anything from anyone "because". Yes, it is wrong. No, but here's the thing -I'm a realist. You aren't. Victors write history, and the weak die out in the end. It's been like this throughout history. That's how the world has been shaped. Are you going to come and tell me that everything in history is morally wrong? Hey, while we're at it, lets just blow up the world so nothing immoral would exist. Is that what you want? So, in the hypothetical case where Palestinians took back their lands, and killed all the jewish that were there, you'd be A-OK with it, because hey! They won! No one said I would be ok with it, but if that's what happens, then what's what happens. That's actually the theoretical reason of why we are like we are now. Heavy security and an extraordinary army, along with the fight for Democracy is the reason we are still up and kicking. I don't do hypothetical cases, because the odds of them happening like you intended them to are so low it's not even worth thinking about.