NoMoreDead

No, but your parents/science sure as hell can. Age: Determined by the time your parents created you. White: Determined by your parents skin color. Tall: Genetic. Male: Genetic. Born in the USA: Where your parents have chosen to live. Anything else that "cannot be controlled"? So who controlled this child's destiny on who his parents would be. I bet science can't do that. Also, wasn't there a study on the history channel where a famous man (found the sunken Titanic) discovered that the black sea had life in it at one point, proving that a major flood had happened? Science is often wrong, don't blindly accept what some "expert" writes. Yet again, you display a complete lack of scientific knowledge. The parents created the child, therefore they controlled his existance. Why are you searching for a supernatural explanation when there is a logically sound one in front of you? As for your flood story: "We agree that they indeed have found evidence for a huge flood in the Black Sea area. But we do not support their claim that this was Noahs Flood. You see, in order to justify their assertion, they declare that the record of Noahs Flood in the Bible is legendary and just a myth. They say the myth originated from a real event (their Black Sea flood), but that it has been grossly distorted and exaggerated as it was relayed by word of mouth before eventually being written down. By using the term myth they can disregard all the details of the biblical account that do not fit their Black Sea claim." http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4168.asp%20

Despite the fact that Darwinian evolution and the big bang are both considered theories, they are the most comprehensive explanations for life and the growth of life. They have been through the scruteny of thousands of scientists, and are now both the most widely accepted theories in their respective catagories. I see no such explanations in the bible/NT/OT. Neither of the three can deny the observed instances of speciation, or the fossil records showing intermediate species. The fact that you say that we know hardly anthing about the age of the Earth makes me laugh beyond control, and I seriously question your knowledge of scientific facts. Why isn't carbon dating an effective dating method? Why would god create things which completely contradict everything the bible/OT/NT describe about the creation of man? The Earth is covered 3/4ths in water. I CAN say that there was no worldwide flood. Look some of this stuff up for a change. What would it prove if we could? We have a comprehensive knowledge as to how all of those things occour(ed). There are naturalisitic explanations for all three of those things.

So your best argument is that the bible is selectivly false so metaphors can exist? Why would all the moral stories in the bible be false, and all the spiritual stories be true? What sense would that make? Why not have a true moral story in there? Why not have a false spiritual story in there? Why is it that you don't question these things? Why is it that people openly believe that an invisible man in the sky is watching over us at all times, and is all powerful and all knowing? The answer: It provides us with comfort. It helps take away our biggest fear: Dying. To think that we will live again, forever, is a way to comfort us. In biblical times, it kept people in control. Believe this and act this way, and you will move on to a better place. To be honest, I'd rather live in a better place than move on to one. No, but your parents/science sure as hell can. Age: Determined by the time your parents created you. White: Determined by your parents skin color. Tall: Genetic. Male: Genetic. Born in the USA: Where your parents have chosen to live. Anything else that "cannot be controlled"?

I don't know what you're talking about at this point. If I can't ask for proof, then I must pose a question to you. Why do you believe in something that has no evidence to back it up? Scientific evidence that refutes claims made in the bible: -Evolution (Speciation) -The Big Bang -Carbon Dating Claims made by the bible which have been proven inaccurate: -Earth is ~6000 years old -God created man -The was a massive worldwide flood Evidence for the bible: -....

Why should it be different? That's where you miss a step in logic. It's different for morality, but not for the existence for god? Why? I can't argue with what you believe in this sense, because it pertains to you personally, and no one else. I must, however, ask this question: What can't you control that god has to?

I don't see how you can say that. You're basically telling me not to ask you why you believe something which has nothing backing it up besides a book in which none of the stories told inside have been prooven. Why can't I ask for proof? Basically what I'm getting out of this is; you cannot back up the bible, because there is no credible evidence for it, whereas there is incredible amounts of evidence against it, so you rule that the question is invalid. I've read through both testaments. I won't lie and say that I read the entire book cover to cover, but I got the jist of it. I ended up laughing considering the illogical stories and nonsense included in the book.

Does it have to be true? Yes. In order for me to believe it's written about/by god then it's going to have to be true. "It has to do with morals and truth and spirituality, and the existence of something greater than ourselves." You'd better damn well believe I require proof of that statement, and if I'm going to believe in something, I need to have some proof. Even to call something morally and spiritually true, I need to have some proof that it is morally and spiritually the way to go. As for the bible being a metaphor: It seems somewhat far fetched to believe that, considering it's a bit longer than your average book. That statement requires proof. Proof which is currently unavaliable. The bible is god's autobiography? HAH! I think a lot of people in your religion would take offense to that, and deem you "insane". My standard of proof is something which is undeniable, unquestionable, and without any other plausable explanation.

A few thoughts to ponder: -Why would you want to follow "A certain type of truth"? What purpose could that serve. If the bible is the word of god, then shouldn't it be the "Absolute" or "only" truth? -How can the bible be the word of god, and also tell about his character? What is this, his autobiograhpy? -How can we determine if the bible is true at all?

I find it completely laughable that you refer to them as "Harmless". I think you made my case for me. Knife incidens are exponentially less likely to be used in mass murder. Remember Columbine? How about Virginia Tech? How about the war in Iraq? You don't have to eliminate ALL weapons in society, because it's simply not possible, but you can eliminate the one that kills more people than any other. Your "what-if" scenarios are completely irrelivant. It is NOT "undeniable" that the most effective way of saving your life is by keeping a gun in your house. Preventing a crime before it happens is the best way to keep your family safe. I think I've been very clear on this fact. And If everyone had a gun, no criminal would attack someone without a gun. I think that eliminating guns completely would make a hell of a lot more sense than having the common citizen walking around with a gun 24/7. More guns = More gun related deaths. This is exactly why having no guns in the country would benefit us greatly. Another thing I don't understand: Why is it that you always refer to the attacker as a "Crazy Person"? I find it funny that this "Crazy person" is always (in your scenarios) intent on killing you at all costs and is always superior to your victim physically. It seems like in all of your scenarios, you neglect to mention how the criminal put the victim in this situation, and why the victim has no other options. [hide=] and then... Erm. I guess that really didn't register. Banning guns would undoubtibly crack down on illegal guns as well. Gun in sight? Gun goes bye-bye. Reducing the number of illegal guns being used would be simple. Impose a larger sentence. I'd say 10 years in prison for carrying a firearm would slow it down pretty quickly, don't you? [/hide] If you cannot see why those two statements are completely contradictory, then I cannot help you. Perhaps, however, it explains why you still insist that guns do more good than bad. Contrary to the evidence that guns kill more people than they help, you assume the opposite. Just about all of those murderers would use a different weapon? You base that statement off of...what exactly? I guess that goes back to your outrageous suggestions that every burgler is a killer. Another thing I've started to ponder. What does it matter if the gun is illegally used or not? I simply don't get it. You make it out as if since the gun is illegally used, it negates the fact that it is a gun, and it killed someone. You can tell me all you want that implementing gun control wouldn't do anything to stop criminals, but I think that you're flat out wrong. Implementing a longer jail sentence for simply carrying a gun would do a lot to crack down on the amount of guns used in violent crime. Yes, I do. Your statistics we're inflated. The stats you provided included incidents where guns were used simply presented during a crime. No, I mean the study that was conducted in an area with a high crime rate that ended up showing statistics completely against what you assume to be true. Desipite the fact that if illegal drugs were indeed legalized, you would see a definate increase in those rates. "New" effective means of protection which do not involve using any form of weaponry: -Alarm systems -Padlocks -Strikemasters -Electric fence Other effective "weapons": -tasers -baseball bats -Pretty much every other blunt object

It depends on your belief system. I don't take it literally, many people close to me don't, and it seems a lot of people here on the forums don't. Some people do. Is your life ruled completely by any of Darwin's theories? Scientific Method? No, I'm sure it isn't, because I'm not going to try and guess what you believe. It's sheer ignorance to believe everyone believes the same thing. I don't mean to take this personally, but I really hate debating with you, True. Actually, our lives ARE ruled by the scientific method, scientific laws, and the like. We just don't think about them, as they are part of our everyday life. We are bound by these laws. Darwin's theory of evolution explains life's progression, so it also rules over us. It just doesn't take control of us. We have proof that all of those laws are there, so we need not just hope or pray for them, unlike other belief systems. I don't think True ever said that we all believe the same thing. However, I'd just like to point out that if you're wrong in the way you interpret the bible, then aren't you going to hell? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is only one "True" way to god. What if you picked the wrong way? There are so many different ways to interpret the bible, and if only one can be right, then aren't you all taking a big gamble? I'd rather not hear: "What if you're wrong and god exists?" I've heard it all before. You know what happens if I'm wrong? I go to hell, according to the bible. But hey, at least I'll have a lot of company.

You said that times were different in 1987. I said absolutely not. We were never in agreement. Remember this?: That doesn't mean we live a completely care-free lifestyle. It means we live only for today, without worrying what tomorrow might hold (at least I do). Religious people MUST worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow might bring judgement. I still don't understand where people get that the bible isn't to be taken literally. Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely for taking moral's out of the bible and not taking the stories literally, mostly because the stories are outrageous and totally unbelieveable. However, if the bible/OT/NT weren't to be taken literally, then what texts are the religion to be based off of? Hell, "Believers.org" says: "The Bible is a Divine Revelation. In the Bible we find out what God wants mankind to know about Himself and His plan. The Bible is the only written revelation of God to man." Again, I agree with your viewpoint that the bible isn't to be taken literally, but that's because I'm atheist. It's hard for me to think that if a text was written by god himself (So the story of the bible goes), then wouldn't you want to follow it?

WRONG. You were saying that atheists were persecuted more heavily "Back then", whereas in reality, not much has changed. Rebuttal required. WRONG. "Anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matthew 5:22, quoting Jesus) "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matthew 5:29, quoting Jesus; see parallel passage in Mark 9:44, which adds, "where the fire never goes out.") Two passages from the New Testament. Countless others avaliable here: http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/hell.htm I hate when people push their beliefs on me. I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone, and neither are you. I am not trying to convert you, and you haven't tried to convert me.

If it was possible for every gun to be gone, completely, legal and illegal, as well as anything else that could kill someone, sure, your arguments would be "bulletproof". But when the question is whether or not you'll be shot, stabbed, bashed, beaten, home-runned, hit-and-runned, mowed, etc, (Hm, that would be hard to make into a question), I'd rather have a weapon that can protect me and my family. Why is it that we assume that everyone is going to be assualted at one point or another and having a gun is your only chance of survival? Anyway, there are plenty of other objects that can be used to protect your family. You can also help prevent the crime before it happens by making sure you lock all your doors securely, and making sure all windows are shut. If you don't leave a robber/murderer a chance to access your home, then you can prevent the crime beforehand.

Kept pace with my Slayer goal today :D. Cracked the top 30k in Slayer as well. 95 Mage tomorrow, if all goes well, as well as a possible HP level up in the near future. 82 Slayer pic, a couple of days late:

Hello. This is reality. We need to talk. If Barrack Obama came out today and said he was atheist, the whole election would change. Not much has changed. Well, I don't really see what that proved, other than the fact that you have no rebuttal, and are completely without an answer. Well, here goes your argument: "The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek word Tartarus or the Hebrew word Gehenna. Hell is the state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed, reserved for those who refuse by their own free choice to believe and be converted from sin, even to the end of their lives." As it turns out, I was 100% wrong. The Old Testament DOESN'T mention hell, whereas the new speaks of it countless times. Woah, you really messed up on that one. Sure seems like you don't really know about what you believe in. Somehow, it doesn't even surprise me. Double Standard? Where? Show me an example of my "Double Standard".

[hide=] [/hide] A quote from 1987 is "Dug up"? This coming from someone who follows 2000 year old texts. I hardly consider a quote spoken 21 years ago to be covered in dirt. Times were not all that different then in terms of atheism vs religion. I literally lmao'ed at this. Don't all religious people worship their god in some way or another? Don't they at least give him a thought once in a while, looking to him for guidance? I do consider it a waste because of what I believe. So, no, it's not "as false as believing religious people waste their lives worshiping their God(s)", because that's what I feel religious people are doing. I think that we do lead more wonderful lives because our minds are free, and living a life without worrying about tomorrow. We live for today. NO HELL?! Well you must re-read the bible then, because hell is abundant in the old testament. God and Jesus warn of the fire that awaits sinners and those who do not accept christ. All I can say is that I've met plenty (And I won't refer to them as "The majority", and you do) of christians who try to show me "The way of christ". If you cannot recognize this, just ask another atheist, and it is likely that at least once, they've been talked to about the way to live life.

So somehow the fact that they make nice collector pieces makes it ok to own? I'm missing a step or two in logic here. Yeah, minus the fact that our well equipped army would run us over if we tried to overthrow the government. You're right, someone only needs one gun to create a tragedy. Why give them that chance? Putting a gun in your hands doesn't automatically make you safe. Suppose you miss shooting the attacker in the dark. Suppose you hit him non-fatally and you get hit fatally. Suppose you get killed in your sleep. Suppose the attacker fires first. There are too many if's involved. The are countless other things you can do to protect yourself without keeping an lethal weapon inside your home. I absolutely believe that it is possible to ban guns and knives to this extent. Actually, stricter laws could go a long way in helping this along. How about a longer sentence for violating the law? Oh, and honestly, if your going to kill a guy in prison, why not just do it with a "pointy toothbrush" instead of wasting your time making a gun. Honestly, if you're outside of prison, and you have a baseball bat or taser inside your house, and a man comes at you with a pointy toothbrush, I dare say he isn't much of a threat. Even a legitimate knife vs a taser or baseball bat spells out bad things for the attacker. Killed by a crazy person armed with what? I think that question has been answered above. Here's where you contradict yourself. Remember this?: and then... Erm. I guess that really didn't register. Banning guns would undoubtibly crack down on illegal guns as well. Gun in sight? Gun goes bye-bye. Reducing the number of illegal guns being used would be simple. Impose a larger sentence. I'd say 10 years in prison for carrying a firearm would slow it down pretty quickly, don't you? "Incidents involving a firearm represented 9% of the 4.7 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault in 2005. " "The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16,137 murders in 2004 were committed with firearms" "According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2005, 477,040 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm." (Source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm) Well, there goes a hell of a lot of crime. Most of these weren't accidental, either. Guns are used moreso to attack than to protect. A sensible study: "A more reasonable estimate of self-defense gun use during burglary comes from a retrospective analysis of Atlanta police department reports. Examining home invasion crimes during a four-month period, researchers identified 198 cases of unwanted entry into single-family dwellings when someone was at home (Kellermann et al. 1995). In only three cases (less than 2 percent) did a victim use a firearm in self-defense." (Source: http://www.gunguys.com/?p=2746) Uh, I think the above study will show otherwise. You know what else would help reduce that statistic? Outlawing guns period. That would make the percentage of death's caused by accidents 0%. In conclusion, there is absolutely no reason to keep guns around. The second amendment was passed in a time period where guns were the only effective method of protection avaliable. It is not so anymore. It's time to put these lethal objects in their graves.

It seems as though you've met ALL the wrong people, then. Ignorance is something left for your side of the argument, for the most part. Here's a fantastic quote by president George W. Bush from 1987: "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." The quote suggests that atheist shouldn't be considered patriots, or even citizens of these United States. Now, I'll be fair and say that the quote is given by an ignorant man, and it does not represent the majority of Christians. However, it is written in the bible that the only way to heaven is through the father, Jesus. This means that no atheist can get into heaven, which, by default, means all atheists will burn in hell. I'd say that pretty much every church deems us as "Evil" based off of that. And of course the church extends it's hand to atheists and agnostics. It's looking for a few extra followers, a little more money, and a few more people to "save". Now, naturallly, it would be a horrible generalization to say that all churches try to convert people for money purposes. I would assume that most people try to convert atheists and agnostics into religious people because they think they are "saving" them. The church does NOT approve of our lifestyles. Athesits, agnostics, homosexuals, and pretty much anyone else who doesn't believe what they believe is living the wrong lifestyle and will surely burn in hell. The church will try to convert you until the day you die. I'd say that just about every Christian has a misinformed perception of the atheist lifestyle. We lead more wonderful lives than you could even fathom. Why, you might ask? Because we know we don't waste a single second of our only life following a false deity.

Nomoredead is hawt irl. [hide=Woah][/hide] Index it whenever you please :P

School nights: Anywhere from 5-8 hours. Usually about 7 hours a night. I feel really great if I can get 8, but my body/schedule rarely allows me to do so. Vacation: Usually about 10 hours a night. I like to get less, actually, around 8 or 9, but if I go to bed too late (After 3-ish), then I end up sleeping in until around 1 P.M.

Let me put it to you this way. We believe that you are not living your lives to the fullest because we feel as though you are wasting your time worrying about what an invisible man in the sky thinks about you. We find it to be a waste of life, as well as a giant waste of time to worship a being who never began, and will never end. A being who knows all, and is all powerful, defying all logic. A being for which there is no explanation, nor any signs of proof regaurding his/her existance. This is why we feel you are "Wasting your life" or "Not living it to the fullest". Another thing I don't understand is why you just assume that living life to the fullest means "Doing drugs, drinking, and being violent". That seems to be an attack with an unfounded basis. As for your idea of what we're "Missing out on", all miracles, healings, and exorcisms are usually either fradulent, or are placebo effects. Nothing so supernaturally profound has happened to disprove any of the scientific or naturalistic explanations for these "Miracles" already laid down by modern science. Sorry, but we're not missing out on anything important. Remember, the unexplained is NOT proof of the supernatural. It is simply a situation where a well founded naturalistic explanation hasn't been found yet. So far, nothing we've encountered on this planet is concrete proof of god. It's all founded on belief. Sorry, I just cannot believe something this profound without proof being put in front of me. So far, a no go.

I completely disagree with this thought process. The Bill of Rights HAS been altered. It has been added to numerous times. It is absolutly plausable that the Bill of Rights will be altered. Congress would be in it's right mind to institute gun control. In other countries where similar policies have been adopted, the results have been fantastic. Honestly, what's the point of owning a gun anyway? Saftey? I disagree. Most studies find that guns are rarely used for saftey purposes. Guns also kill about 30,000 people a year (and that's just within the United States, not counting war). Also, in most instances that guns are actually used to save people, it is likely that another gun is the weapon being used to put the defensive person's life in danger. Riots? Protests? I certainly disagree. I don't understand why people are so willing to have civil liberties such as privacy taken away, but are not willing to have objects capable of killing people removed from society. I just don't understand what you base this scenario off of. A civil war? That seems a little drastic. I'd say that a very small minority of people would really care so much that they would resort to violence. Besides, if guns were indeed removed, what would we go to war with? :

:o That sounds like something I'm about ready to get into!

Decided to get 82 Slayer tomorrow. Currently under 50 xp to level :P Also, I should be getting 86 Strength and perhaps even 92 HP in the coming week, along with 88 Attack. Should be a good combat week. I've also managed to stay on track with my slayer goal (83 Slayer before August 1). Tomorrow I won't be on much, but I got enough xp today that I shouldn't need but a few Black Demon kills tomorrow to keep pace. A few goals for rest of summer: 90+ in all melee Skills 83 Slayer 99 Mage 95 HP 90 Fishing 1700 Total Level 120 Combat

Thanks IgnacioxD. Hopefully I'll be moving on to 99 Mage within a day or two. :D Thanks Rein. Slayer monsters and I have a good relationship indeed :P