Yoko Kurama

Except the efficiency crowd seems pretty dead set on official validation for their allegedly private goals, and seems to want an official standard which will probably trend towards 120 content and levels. And I disagree on your second point. I don't see this as a matter of "give them the 120 capes, and they will leave you non-efficiency players alone". I see this as a slippery slope, where once we give them the 120 capes, they will come back for more. Just like the Max/Comped/Trimmed capes. There is definitely a link, and I think I am aiming at the right target. And yeah, they could poll on 120 levels instead, but my guess (I have no way to prove this, and I am not even super certain of it) is that neither of the following: a 120 Cape poll, a 120 level poll, or a combination of both, would pass if polled in the foreseeable future, since the HLF/efficiency crowd is still a minority.

Wait. I have about 3300ish Port Score. I just checked that apparently you need 3,500 for Fleet Admiral, and the max possible amount according to RS wikia is 3386. So how does that work out? I presume RS Wikia is wrong, but then when I do the math... I think I have all the buildings, all the scrolls, all the adventurers met, and 62/63 storylines done. A few ship upgrades left (from Shield, I am still in Loop). I did the math and it doesn't look like I will get anywhere near 3,500. I imagine the the RS wikia is wrong on port score per activity as well? Max distance is 4.1M, right?

You're missing the point. This is not just one person. Quite a few in the HLF community want not only capes but also levels. So it's indicative of a certain attitude. Secondly, it's in the view of some (including mine), the next part of the slippery slope. Let's say we have the 120 Cape polls, and it passes and they are added to the game. Then what? Will the efficiency crowd go away? Likely not. They will probably come back demanding that we give them levels and content to reward them for their effort. For people who don't like that sort of stuff, eventually we will be forced to train levels past 99 to unlock content. Eventually they will probably need to raise levels. There's also a big chunk of the game though that knows its still way too soon for that. Many skills still need complete reworks, or a lot more content to fill in the current levels. I don't think demand for level 120 skills will increase however just because the capes pass. If the capes fail then those who want 120 skills will still demand 120 skills, failing this vote will have no negative effect on that. The only thing I could see that failing this vote will do is add to the number of people who want 120 skills. I've almost got my comp trim cape back, I'd like some more items to go for in game and since prestige got torpedo'd, this seems the best chance of getting some new longterm goals. I'd prefer capes without 120 skills because like I said, there's still plenty that can/needs to be done with skills currently, however if I can't get capes without having new levels I would push for more levels because I need more goals and just exp doesn't cut it, there needs to be something I'm working towards. Jagex's policy at least in OSRS is that once a poll fails, they don't poll it again for quite some time, because they want to honor the results, and not just keel polling things until they get a certain result. I imagine they will do the same if 120 fails. They won't poll it again for quite some time. So yes will it have an effect definitely. The next time some HLF person makes the 2,423,454th post on why we need 120 capes, a J Mod, or someone else, can politely point them to the poll and let them know that the community voted against it and the matter is settled. Those of us in the non-efficiency crowd who are Maxed/Comped, prefer to make our own goals, so we have no interest in numbers or pushing Jagex to make some other official standard. We'd much rather do things like PVM, or minigames or other stuff. @ Noxx Well, a lot of the effiency crowd doesn't have 120 in all levels, only a few, but are still pushing for 120 levels. So yeah. Also, the reason the effort between 1-99 and 99-120 is so out of proportion is because RS has an exponential curve for leveling (it's the same reason that when you hit level 92, you have in actuality only finished 50% of the skill, experience wise, as opposed to 90+%). Exponential curves start out nicely, but they always get out of hand, as they are designed to do so.

You're missing the point. This is not just one person. Quite a few in the HLF community want not only capes but also levels. So it's indicative of a certain attitude. Secondly, it's in the view of some (including mine), the next part of the slippery slope. Let's say we have the 120 Cape polls, and it passes and they are added to the game. Then what? Will the efficiency crowd go away? Likely not. They will probably come back demanding that we give them levels and content to reward them for their effort. For people who don't like that sort of stuff, eventually we will be forced to train levels past 99 to unlock content.

I did like Archmage for quite some time (but I hate the fact that it isn't on the Customization interface, so anytime I go to Mobilizing Armies, I'd lose it, it's super annoying). I do like exclusive titles, but that's not enough for me to wear one of them. Like if I had a couple billion GPs, I might buy the Charitable title (the next time it's available), but it doesn't sound nice to me, so I likely wouldn't wear it unless I was purposely trying to wave it around like a status symbol. My favourite title is the "Of Daemonheim" title. It's fairly exclusive, and it sounds nice, has a decent colour, and Dungeoneering is my favourite skill, and I definitely lived in it for months. So yeah, it gets all the check-marks from me. I am about 150ish from Fleet Admiral -- wonder if I will be able to get it, I never cared too much about Port Score when Pop V1 was out. But I do think I have everything... But that's enough about titles.

Someone on RSOF in the Poll Feedback section is already suggesting that Jagex should poll "120 levels, not just capes". Sooner than I had expected. Just another reason to vote against 120 Capes.

I am one of those people who has the strange preference that the title actually has to have a decent color and look and sound nice with my name, and possibly have some meaning. So I am pretty picky with titles. Though the exclusive nature of it does interest me somewhat.

I never cared for the Ports titles, to be honest. Though, I understand other people do. Preference and all that I guess.

@W aldo No. It's never too late to change things. You're forgetting that RS existed for several years before skill capes were released, almost 10 before Comp and Max capes were released, and before the experience craze set in. The metagame can be changed at any time, and it must change, it's never too late. I have already offered plenty of examples to the contrary, where thanks to the experience craze, tens of thousands of players have seen various accomplishments of theirs devalued. This is nothing new. Things are often deleted from Runescape. Even money is as Jagex is always looking to combat inflation. Is that 'stealing' stuff too? Again, this argument about being 'selfish' isn't compelling at all. My changing of the metagame is no more selfish than the current experience-driven metagame which did away with the old metagame. What about the deleting of flower games? Was that selfishness or taking away people's fun too? Did that not alienate dozens of people? Updates will always alienate players -- that's not an issue; the important thing is what sort of long-term impact they have on the state of the game.

@ Ping Jagex has continually depreciated levels and achievements over the years without much hesitation, whether that be with very generous new training methods, bonus weekends, effigies, SOF and what not. And yet we are still here. Yeah, people who have gotten 200Ms would definitely be alienated, but their plight is no worse than the tens of thousands who got difficult and expensive skills such as Summoning, Herblore, or Prayer to 99, only to watch Jagex hand millions of free experience points to thousands of other people who got it through bonus weekends. Or the people like me who got 120 Dungeoneering pre-EoC, only for Jagex to make Dungeoneering extremely easy with EoC, improve XP rates, give challenges, give SOF stuff, and then on top of that have a 72 hour bonus weekend where some 1,800 people got 120 Dungeoneering for considerably less effort than I ever put in, for a fraction of the time.There's a dozen other such examples. So to argue that I am advocating for something unprecedented isn't entirely accurate. Simply because RS hasn't always been this way isn't really a compelling argument. A game must adapt to changing situations and circumstances. We have, in my view, a pretty bad metagame which I'd like to see altering. And if that includes introducing a new game mechanic (XP cap), then so be it. It's no different from how flower games were allowed for so long, and then stopped suddenly by the changing of a game mechanic when Jagex found them contrary to the spirit of the game. Were you also saying back then, "you shouldn't do that, because that's not how it was from the start?" @W aldo Gameplay is by definition limiting. No game permits everything, and no entity can allow everything; to have some sort of identity, you must exclude something. Every game has a metagame which encourages certain things, and discourages other things, through official and informal incentives, pressures, rewards, penalties and so forth. I find the current metagame to be very limiting with its constant pressure for more experience (and I am inclined to believe that eventually levels past 99 will have useful content, thus forcing us all to get them). I am no more selfish than the current cast of people who advocate for a metagame which is focused on XP.

81% to Shield, I have all Loop stuff except the 2x Cannons (but only 56 Cotta at the moment). This is looking to be pretty good. And I just sent out a bunch of voyages for lots of Cotta. Great day. I probably should have gotten Cannons first since they provide a much better increase, but whatever it's all looking like it will work out.

I legit lol'ed.

Needs to be non consumable as well. Last thing we need is another degrading thingy.

R.I.P. Devotion. Mod Timbo to give eulogy. Yes I know, it probably wasn't him who did this.

It's not a matter of selfishness as it is a matter of the very nature of the game. I am a member of the game, and I have a particular direction or type of game I'd like to see, so I am advocating for that, and that's that. There's nothing hypocritical or selfish about that. And no. This style wasn't entirely player driven. There were plenty of changes in the metagame and many things that Jagex did that directly put pressure onto players to go into this direction, such as the various capes, broadcast messages, bonus weekends, Squeal of Fortune, profileration of XP, and so on. And yes, some people enjoy that sort of gameplay because that's the only sort of RS they know, but so what? Under a different sort of RS, they'd enjoy different things. That is fair enough, I don't mind you advocating your point. I still think capping skills at 13M is selfish, but generating an atmosphere and updates built towards less experience oriented game play is fine with me. I think everyone should have the opportunity to play the part of the game they like, part of why I like Runescape so much. I agree that they have definitely catered updates for that style of gameplay, I never meant to argue that. I would say they made those updates because they new they would be successful (well stuff like skillcapes...SOF is a different matter) since that is what players want. I guess it is kind of a circle which both sides contributing, but I would say it started with the players. I was mainly responding to the idea of a much lower XP cap, not that entire opposite style of gameplay. Like I said, I want everyone to enjoy the parts of them game they love. They did not necessarily know that it would be successful or popular. They pushed such updates to foster a certain kind of environment in which players were pressured into slowly adapting to. That's been done through Runescape. It used to be the land of PVP'ers once, and that's when RS was most popular and had the largest base, and now there's barely any to be found. So yeah, as time goes on the game environment changes; all I am suggesting is that we turn back the clock somewhat and move the game away from the current focus on XP -- players, like they always have, will slowly adapt. It's not really a matter of "well, players do it because they like it", it's more of "players like the game, and the game incentivizes X activity, so players do X activity". As for XP caps, that's just a drastic measure to do this. It's no different from the 200M cap or the 2147M cap, they are all arbitrary. There's nothing selfish or irrational, necessarily, about them.

It's not a matter of selfishness as it is a matter of the very nature of the game. I am a member of the game, and I have a particular direction or type of game I'd like to see, so I am advocating for that, and that's that. There's nothing hypocritical or selfish about that. And no. This style wasn't entirely player driven. There were plenty of changes in the metagame and many things that Jagex did that directly put pressure onto players to go into this direction, such as the various capes, broadcast messages, bonus weekends, Squeal of Fortune, profileration of XP, and so on. And yes, some people enjoy that sort of gameplay because that's the only sort of RS they know, but so what? Under a different sort of RS, they'd enjoy different things.

Yes, I am. Even in the current game, where so many people have xp past 99 already, I would add a hard cap at level 99 exactly. And while it would be a change in direction for the game, I do not think it would end up hurting gameplay. I would rather have people not playing than afking ivy/crystal/whatever to 200m (sorry Jeremy, Minergoo, idk how many others). I hope that capping xp sooner means that the end-game will shift away from grinding for xp to (grinding for, let's face it :P) PvM, PvP and minigames. As Yoko said, a shift away from the xp race, which, frankly, has very little to do with playing the game anyway*, would be much more fun. *As in, mindless afk will get you anywhere and everywhere you want, and the most skilled PvPers, dungeoneers, monster hunters, minigamers and whateverers have close enough to no advantage over your regular newb - it's purely a matter of sleep requirements, RSI and boredom. I would say: playing a thousand ice hockey matches is not impressive, that's called routine. Winning the Olympic final is impressive, that's called skill (go Canada). Agreed. I have advocated for quite some time now for experience to be capped at something like 20M (so a bit more generous than your position which I have no problem with either). The 200M thing was mostly accidental, and it is as you say a monotonous routine for people with too much time on their hands and (and in my view) misplaced priorities.

This problem of Maxed/Comped Capers running around asking for ever increasing levels only exists because we have moved away from a gaming culture where people did stuff for fun, and found new things to do themselves to an experience crazed culture where everyone is provincially concerned with fictitious experience. Back in the day, there was a social atmosphere and people did Castle Wars and Fight Pits, and a lot more, simply for fun and simply because they enjoyed it (not because of experience rewards, for most of these, there were none). Now that we are in the experience craze, people are always asking them to make a new skill or lift the cap so they can grind aimlessly again. This problem will never be solved by simply lifting the cap, the solution is to move back to a fun-based culture where experience isn't the end all be all of the game, where people can decide for themselves what are fun things and pursue them. It also doesn't help that Jagex has completely devalued all skills (and other stuff) with mounds of free experience everywhere, so players never feel secure enough in 99's, or Comp Capes and want more validation. I don't see any good coming out of 120 Capes and will vote a resounding 'no' if/when the vote comes along. I can only see it holding the rest of us reasonable players to the standard of a crazed and fervent minority -- no thanks. If you have the time, or simply want to go for 200Ms/120's, fine go for it, but it should never be an official standard.

Yup. And in everyone single one of those instances where you need tank armour, on a team of however many people, only one person needs it, and everyone else simply uses DPS gear, thus greatly restricting the utility of, and demand for, tank gear.Well you have the people who are new and learning. Everyone always counts them out on these discussions. Its probably because everyone has the mentality of "go big or go home" with gear. You only honestly see people mention tank gear when people legitimately asking for advice on learning a dps role and maybe tanking. Things like the pricing of drygore, ascsnsion and siesmic weapons compared to their halfstep and full step counterparts are examples of this mentality. I mean even the newly released halfstep counterpart to virtus wand and book is worth about 20m. Virtus wand and book is worth aboit 160m total. To me that tells me the community holds the top dps counterparts at an extremely higher standard that it really should be. The community does not "hold the top DPS counterparts at extremely higher standard than it should be". They simply are better because of how the game and bosses are designed, and how poorly tank gear is designed. The community isn't over appreciating power gear, and under appreciating tank gear-- power gear simply is super useful, and tank gear is mostly useless. People are simply reacting to the conditions that Jagex has created and accurately understand the situation. Everyone is obsessed with power gear and DPSing simply because it is better.

Yup. And in every single one of those instances where you need tank armour, on a team of however many people, only one person needs it, and everyone else simply uses DPS gear, thus greatly restricting the utility of, and demand for, tank gear.

That is a change that has massive implications, should it happen. I can't even wrap my mind around it. Not really. In 9/10 situations everyone uses Power Armour if they can afford it. Tank armour is utterly useless for most things and was a poorly thought out implementation.

Those shield crew members look hideous, but that's neither here nor here. Congratulations though, xpx. By the way, is it normal that lately I don't get a random event every day? Since batch 2, I was getting one every day, but this week it's been different.

Except that Jagex does this on a consistent basis, particularly with their quests. It suggests to me that they just don't manage their time well at all. Here and there it's understandable, but with them, it's like a pattern. Especially when we are down to effectively two-update months -- how can they still be consistently struggling? They have consistently been putting out very underwhelming quests for the past year (fewer quests than any other year in RS history, several delayed, and one that was a major disappointment [botD - the lackluster quest which in addition to being completely disappointing, it turned out that they forgot to put any post-quest dialogue, and actually had to make a thread about it afterwards asking people what they would like to see after people had already accepted a delay and done it!]). They really needed to make up for that this year and they just haven't. Their whole act doesn't scream "we were trying really hard and at the last moment this thing came up that was totally out of our control, and now we have to delay the thing", it's more like "we left this till the last moment, we rushed it and it became apparent that it probably can't just be done so quickly, so delay it is". It reminds of me school really (I was sort of a procastinator as well); most of my professors had pretty strict late penalties. A few were understanding, but if the same people continually kept up coming to them every single time, suddenly they wouldn't be so understanding anymore. It's not the best analogy in the world (as, again game development is different and there is more uncertainty there), but it holds, and it seems to be a pattern for Jagex. I would of course prefer that they do a proper job and not release it now if it isn't finished, but again, to me it seems that they are only at this stage because they mismanaged their time. They are super behind on quests (at least two quests slated for last year or early 2014 were not released). Not impressed at all, and completely find their work ethic to be suspect.

Until of course we find out that Fate of the Gods is delayed till April, of course. I was fully expecting to learn in Fate of the Gods to be delayed (they had sort of hinted that it would be early March, then it was announced it might be late March, and possibly early April), but I guess they have really excelled themselves in delaying this time. A shame, I was really anticipating this ever since they announced in the BTS.

[bleep]ing ridiculous, apparently the RAF bonus works or gives increased bonus or something for BXP. So everyone I know is making accounts to RAF with bonds so they can get more XP.