Yoko Kurama

It's rather rushed, Bandos is rather one-dimensional, for it to really mean anything. And obviously it can't really live up the Guthix-death standard. Also, though the lore problems are there, even more importantly, it makes the gameplay of WE2 rather horrible.

Actually, there were a significant amount of people who were opposed to the 'purpose' of this world event from the start, as soon as it got announced at Runefest; there was a petition shortly up afterwards. Yes, the point of the world event is to kill one god via popularity question; but the point that the opposition has is that this is a terrible idea.

But it isn't a gray conflict (Bandos VS. Armadyl, the overall God Wars are arguably a gray conflict). It has been established that Bandos is a fairly evil character. That doesn't mean he isn't sophisticated or slightly interesting; but it does mean he is a 'black/white' character. The same applies to Armadyl. He's basically a good guy. He's not as well developed, sophisticated or interesting as Guthix (the ultimate and most well-developed good guy in RS), but he's certainly a good guy. That doesn't mean Armadyl isn't interesting, but he is a 'black/white' type character.

Gray characters usually are rare in fiction; they are a sort of half-way between white and black characters. ??? You're reading really low quality fiction... the whole point of literature is the grey character. The exact tint of grey may vary, but only an inept writer would have black and white only. Anyway, I don't think that the above discussion is all that relevant to the dimensionality of Bandos or any god. The question is: if I take away this characteristic, what's left? What is Bandos without his drive for war? What do we know about Bandos apart from that he wants war? He likes to cause it, but not necessarily between gods - mortals will do (as evidenced by the goblin tribes). He likes watching war, but do we know of any attack he's started? As far as I know, he always exploits existing conflicts and turns them violent. Is there any reason to suspect that Bandos aims for anything but turning competition violent? It's true that high quality fiction (which I never really took RS for) has more of a focus on gray characters; but even high quality fiction needs a few black and white characters. Even Shakespeare's Hamlet had a Polonius, someone who was just immoral. Given that Jagex has went out of their way to make several of the other Gods gray, I think it's entirely appropriate that they reserved one God as simply being single-minded and evil. It's a nice contrast, and it ensures that gray concept isn't overused. How many Gods are there? They can't all just be sophisticated characters who are dangling between good and evil -- it would come off as too trite and it would probably fail if they tried to make every character into a Saradomin or Zamorak mold (the archetypal gray characters in RS). There are plenty of people that are single-minded or dedicate their whole life to one thing. I don't think that's unusual. He has been known to defeat large armies by himself. So I presume he's not just into being a spectator and actually likes being in war.

Yes. And that's precisely how all the other Gods view it as well.. Zamorak (who is supposed to be a 'noble demon') wouldn't care if all the Icyene were exterminated, and Saradomin (another gray character and nominally 'good' guy) wouldn't care if all the Vampyres and Demons were exterminated in combat. Pretty sure Armadyl's armies also killed combatants of other races. That's the point of war at the end of the day, to kill the other side. Bandos is unique in that he seems to be honest and upfront about it, rather than make excuses or try to salvage his image (though he does lie to his followers). He also isn't petty about combat. He can be vengeful (as seen by his attempt to punish the Dorgesh), but he seems not to hold grudges against other combatants. And he seems to push around people who are weaker than him -- he seems to respect power alone.

I'll respect Armadyl a little if he's the one who initiates the combat This. Nothing more nauseating than mindless pacifism. He hasn't renounced war. He has renounced it in situations where everyone dies (importantly most or all of his followers). War, by definition, has the possibility of genocide - so, no, he hasn't renounced that (none of the Gods, except Guthix, really acknowledge this with any seriousness). He has however renounced complete genocide.

I find Bandos interesting because he is so overwhelmingly evil. Jagex has been trying to give everyone either a flaw or a strength and they got to Bandos and were just like "Nope, He's Evil". Every other character has some form of grey in there. Armadyl led his followers to genocide, he's not really a great warleader and thats a weakness for him. Bandos has deliberately genocided his own people when they had no one else to fight. Its interesting in how unambiguously bad for Gielinor he is. Thats why I think he's an interesting character for the game but also why I won't be wanting him to win. Except Bandos actually learned from his mistake and changed his worldview -- he no longer thinks that war should be pursued if it will end in ultimate genocide (hence the Chosen Commander story line). What has Armadyl learned? He was in one of the most devastating and bloody conflicts in all of history which lead to countless genocides and involved psychopathic gods -- what does he learn after thousands of years of reflection and banishment? Apparently nothing. Because in the 6th Age he still tries pacifism against these psychopathic, violent, empowered maniacs. Seems naive and silly to me.

Gray characters usually are rare in fiction; they are a sort of half-way between white and black characters. Bandos is clichéd in his villainy (though, it's not mindless, he's an intelligent creature who simply finds purpose in war -- no more different than the player or NPC who finds purpose in smithing). So yes, he's clichéd, but he sort of needs to be. A lot of the other characters (Zaros, Zamorak, Saradomin) are gray characters -- you can't really throw every one into that mold, otherwise it becomes overused. Someone had to be the definitive bad guy/bully, and Bandos is that. All things considered, he could have been a lot more one-dimensional and clichéd, so I think he's pretty decent as a character and not as bad as he could have been.

I didn't have to dig at all. I remembered it from the quest and one of podcasts/possibly Wiki. You're telling me that a one-dimensional "kill-crush-burn" god of war, who was intentionally written as an unlikeable, one-dimensional "kill-crush-burn" god of war, is more interesting than a god of justice who has to balance his ideals with his responsibility and the realities of what godhood means during a god war? I will never understand this forum. Oh, please. Armadyl is just as one-dimensional as Bandos. Oh, look, there's the most cliched and archetypal 'good' guy. Throw in the theme of 'justice' in there, and bam! We have got a good guy. I haven't seen any thing sophisticated from him either. And there's nothing unusual about Bandos in that sense. So he finds purpose in war (as even humanity did for quite a lot of its history). Nothing really hard to swallow. In fact, Armadyl is hideously cliched and naive in his pacifism. He's been here for thousands of years, and was here for most of the bloody and destructive God Wars (which lasted about 4,000 years), and in the Sixth Age he was still trying the "let's just use reason and not fight please, guys!" route. That's sort of pathetic. Sometimes violence really is the answer, and it's sort of annoying that Armadyl has only just now realized it. Bandos is interesting (though I don't care for him) in the sense that he knows the reality of war, enjoys it, and is driven by it. There are no regrets, internal dialogues or anything of the sort. That's just what he is. That's starkly different from most good guys, or gray characters like Saradomin who make mistakes or do horrible stuff and try to half-heartedly apologize for it later. In short, Bandos is a warrior, he lives by the sword, and is willing to die by it. There's something appealing and refreshing about it, and that sort of character certainly has a place in a fantasy MMORPG. Not every character could have been a gray character like Saradomin and Zammy -- otherwise it would become trite and overused; gray characters are by definition rare and are there to contrast black and white characters. Bandos is that black/white character.

Bandos is not as one-dimensional as some people are claiming. It's true that he is obsessed with war, and is the only God that is supposedly evil, but he does have certain neat qualities. He is quite intelligent, and he is one of the few Gods that has actually learned from his mistakes. If I remember correctly, after one of the wars accidentally genocides various tribes of his followers, at the next battle he actually intervenes and stops the war to avoid that sort of outcome again. Not many or maybe any other Gods that have this sort of character development. The rest seem to be arrogant douchebags who happen to think they're right and that's that. That's not to say Bandos is a good guy; he isn't, but it's interesting still.

Seismic Wands and T90 Mage isn't worth more than Blue Phat yet, there's obviously a problem. Don't worry, guys, Chris L is on it!

Yes, good point and correction. The 20% only applies to degrading items that don't degrade to dust, such as Chaotics/Drygores/Ascensions/Seismics/PoP/Nex, etc. Degrade-to-dust items, such as Malevolent/Sirenic/Tectonic, and these gloves, lose 10% on death.

I can confirm with 100% certainty that the way it works is each item that ends up in your grave that you equipped loses 20%. It is not spread out or anything like that. Anything that was equipped at the time of death and ended up in your gravestone will lose 20% each. So If I had a Death Lotus top and Bottom Equipped at 100%, and I didn't protect them on death, they would both be down to 80% after I got them back. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why people aren't using gloves, boots, helmets and Completionist Capes anymore, and why these items are crashing.

The reason the gloves are so 'stupidly' low (though I don't mind stuff being cheap, but in this instance it's cheap because it's useless) is because of the degrading-to-dust mechanic, and the fact that if you die you lose 20% on degrading items. As it is, most people, including top wealthy players have stopped using degrading gloves, boots, and even helmets sometimes because of this stupid mechanic. In fact, most don't even use their Comp capes because it turns to 5M on death in your graveyard and you have to go back to Museum to pick it up. So they use their Max Capes instead. Keep in mind that with the best stuff, you can only protect 5 items at most. For most people, that means, your 2 Dual Wield Weapons, a plate, some legs, and may be a helmet or a shield, and that's it. It's sort of silly that Jagex gives degrading equipment a penalty on death, makes all the high tier equipment degrading, only lets us keep 5 of them, and then it turns out that people have simply decided not to use half of the degrading equipment out there, instead, to save on expensive costs. Not really all that complicated. Jagex claims that "just don't die, or just unequip the armour before you die", but that's not really that effective. Most high-level bosses are strong enough that you will die even for small mistakes here and there, and you often won't see it coming or have enough time to unequip your armour. It's a rare situation in which you know the kill is lost and that you have to lobby or suicide and can thus unequip your stuff. Really, though, bosses should be about using the best gear you have earned to be able to fight as best you can, not having to welfare because of silly degrading costs/penalties, or having to worry about taking off your stuff before you die. The degrading mechanics are okay, but the penalty really isn't. And as such no one should be surprised that the gloves are worthless, and that the next few gloves will be the same.

I have always regarded Armadyl as a wimp -- i hope he gets stomped. Though I don't really like Bandos either, and Missing Presumed Death did make me like Armadyl somewhat (his attempt to reason with the other gods, and his realization, finally, that pacifism might not work). But still....

If Rangers get a Meta, and their specials boosted, I will consider this month a monumental success. That is all, As for the Santa Hat, it won't be more than a new Fish Mask. Decades before it will become rare. Nothing to worry about. Also, the Retro kits; will they be an override on anything, or only on Pernix/Torva/Virtus?

Depends on who you hunt, Dean/Pi are much better to talk to regarding EOC and PVP. Slayer is just another CM. I will hunt down this Pi and Dean, then.

I thought the thing with asc bows is that getting them to begin with is fairly expensive. Those keys are costly. And it's a very big gamble. I know people who make Ascension bows all day long with GE-bought keys and they makes loads of profit. I also know people who have killed hundreds of Ascension bosses, gotten 1 or no signets and then simply quit...

Well, most of the J-Mods don't seem to be interested in answering questions about things that really matter. For instance I asked Mod Slayer about the disparatiy between mage/range/melee specials (lack of Meta for rangers and other specials), prices, the seismic situation etc etc, and she had nothing to say; wouldn't even say whether there are any discussions within Jagex about this, or if she would bring it up in some other meeting. Not a word. But the first person who talks about stupid and trivial shit like Bassica Prime or silly outfits? Loads of responses. Shows you where their priorities are... It's been 1 year into EoC live, and the specials for Range as compared to Mage or Melee are still wacked -- and if you try to talk to J-Mods about it they apparently don't want to hear about it or at least have nothing to say about the matter.

If only all these supposedly community oriented J-Mods would actually talk to us about things that are really important rather than silly costumes...

Skillers can only really be a small part of PVP, by definition. Making them the focal part, is indeed a false filler. Because PVP, at its best or highest anyways, should be exactly what it implies: two players battling it out -- not one player in combat gear 2-hitting some other defenseless player 2-iteming while trying to chop a tree or mine a rock. That's not to say that skillers don't have a place in PvP or that PvPers shouldn't kill skillers -- but it should be a minor part part at best.

Pkers have nothing to gain from killing skillers, but they do it anyway just to grief. Such is the nature of Pkers, and why I am glad most of them left the game. And the nature of skillers is that they cry every time something doesn't go as they want? God forbid that they die when they go into a pvp area. And are skillers supposed to celebrate the fact that Jagex used to encourage them in the past to be fodder for PvP'ers? Like Everto said, skillers carry nothing of value, but PK'ers kill them anyways to grief them. Same thing happens with W60 penguins when there are wildy penguins. There are always PK'ers there with ancients freezing and killing people who are carrying nothing just to troll them. Unless someone is a [bleep]ing sadomasochist, it's natural that they won't enjoy it. This isn't skillers crying, it's just skillers pointing out that this sort of stuff is lame and pointless. Also, PvPers have always been intensely hated and regarded as a bunch of immature little brats largely because they troll and kill people without any items while furiously typing 'D'cl4z up ur momz @SS'. If they really want to integrate skillers and PvP'ers in a single area then the way to do that is through stuff like PvP worlds and lucrative rewards like Brawlers/Statuettes but they canned that idea...

Mod Chris L finally replied (after a lengthy break) to his thread asking for suggestions in the HLF forum. A lot of people asked about the Seismic Wands. He acknowledged the problem, and stated that he had hoped the wands would drop, and that it's unfortunate that they haven't -- but then he went on to say that they have no plans fix this at the moment. And that about sums it up. There's a problem, it's been here for months, it's fairly significant and it affects many players -- what is their response? "Uh..yeah,kthxbai!"

Now I don't mind the changes to the Rise of the Six (I am pretty good at it), but my problem is that they are beating around the bush for it. They obviously want the shields to rise (their fast crash is pretty much unprecedented in RS history for a new high-level item). Fine, if they want them to rise -- okay, not the end of the world, as long as it doesn't rise to something unreasonable. But they are beating around the bush. The reason the shields are so low is partly because they are common, but more importantly, in EoC shields are worthless, and even more importantly, the Corp shields are better and everyone in the world can see that. Why pay lots for these new level 90 shields, when there are level 75 shields that are already quite cheap (20-60M), and are flat out better? It's just so obvious -- I don't see how Jagex could have deluded themselves into think that these new shields would be desirable to anyone so long as they didn't have a damage reduction effect. So if they want to make them rise, just add effects or a MASSIVE stat increase rather than making hidden updates that are making barrows more annoying.

Why would it ruin LS? There have always been people who would rather take the whole drop to themselves than share.