Yoko Kurama

Not sure how you played, or what sort of people you played against, but plenty of people, for PVM at least, are reporting that they were doing significantly more damage in Legacy at PVM than they were with EoC full manual with try-hard abilities. Of course, there are problems (certain bosses require abilities), and in PVP stuns will wreck Legacy, but it still seems problematic.

So I have been watching Mod Dean's stream for a while now, watching him do various things in Legacy. This is by far the most hilarious and embarrassing thing I have seen from Jagex in a while. In addition to being just plain out terrible at combat of all sorts, raging, he didn't even know basics for Vorago (even though he's been doing it since late last year) or various other in-game basics. Now, in and of itself, that isn't so bad, but Mod Dean is touted by Jagex as a 'legend within Jagex', and is someone who has quite a lot of input into bosses, the combat system, and legacy betas. Why is someone that bad being allowed to have input into things without even basic knowledge that most players no doubt already have? It'd be funny if it wasn't pathetic.

Given the nature of the effiency crowd, i'm glad how Jagex made it all much too easy now. Really? After a long day you don't love to unwind with a few other people? Shame man, minigames and free for all is so much fun. Nope, don't like getting screamed at just because I owned them in combat. I don't want to know what they've supposed to have done to my mother, what I should do with their genitals, how much I know how to hack into their computer/Jagex computers. And certainly don't want their entitlement that all RuneScape is about is PVP and thus everything should be catered to them when they start crying. I do love minigames, but I don't like the macho-crybaby culture involved within the PVP scene. Theres idiots everywhere, not just PVP. Dont go judging people. I don't assume every black guy steals watermelons because its their life and soul and I don't expect every PVPer is an a hole that has his way with alot of mothers. When opinions conflict you all get crybaby culture. Me, you. This threads full of it. There is no harm in judging people based on their behavior, often it is accurate and merited. The fact of the matter is that being a loudmouth douchebag was part of the PVP culture. It simply was. There is no point in trying to walk past this fact. That's just how the PVP community was, and they encouraged people to behave that way. Shouting profanities at people along the lines of "D clawz up ur mum's ass" and stuff of that sort, trolling people, griefing them, was very much the norm. Not all PKers were this way, but it was clearly a large part of the community. It is what it is.

It's not quite that simple. All the data reveals, when I last looked at it, a MASSIVE reduction in the amount of players online, active accounts, traffic to the site, google hits. It was a lot more serious than just 10K quitters, and those who went to OSRS.

They are not in financial decline, but the playerbase has shrunken undeniably and that can't be good. Yes they are making profit, but they are making that profit from a shrinking number of customers, so essentially they are making more per person, or from each person than before. Nothing to write home about.

It didn't 'ruin' RS per se. I have supported EoC from the start, and throughout all of it, but it cannot be denied that it was implemented very lazily by Jagex, who were very stubborn and quite lazy and refused to acknowledge various basic and simple problems until well over a year and a half into EoC. Furthermore, it also cannot be denied (regardless of one happens to think about EoC - I happen to like it and prefer it to what was there before) that it has alienated and driven away a large amount of the player-base away.

@Gwyn, I think you're taking what is only a name too seriously. Yes, it's called the [trimmed]-'Completionist' Cape, but at the end of the day, it's obvious that it isn't actually about completing the game (there are hundreds of things that many would think of as 'completing' the game, that are not trim requirements, and for which there are no plans to make them trim requirements). Making something a trim requirement only devalues it by forcing a couple hundred people who are obsessed with a gold trim to do it, rather than having people only complete it for its intrinsic value. I'd actually be in favour of more requirements such as 1/5 titles for future content, where trimmers are required to do a certain part of the content, but not all of it, leaving the rest of the content to stand on its own merit, and on its own instrinsic value. As it currently stands, the trim/comp capes often function as a crutch for Jagex who arbitrarily use it to force people to do lazily put out content which would have otherwise been dead.

You really should be doing trim reqs for yourself rather than to "compete" with others, or you'll just wear yourself out with posts like this. I don't do it directly to compete, but I think it's stupid to give a gold medal to 3rd place so to speak. It puts "completion" on a bias. It isn't completing the content, it's being lucky with the content. Which, in my opinion, means it shouldn't be a requirement. Completion should be a very hard defined time and effort input. I don't care if the req takes 80+ hours. But if it does, it should take 80+ hours for everyone, not just people who are unlucky. @Yoko I have 4,000~ demon kills, which has taken me a bit over 40 hours. I have 0 titles - and as long as 1 is going to be a requirement, I think all 5 need to be the requirement. I also support "The Defeater" title for Trim (although I don't Vorago and a friend let me leech off his clan to get my 1 required mauling) . While I understand your view about quirky titles - they don't get devalued much if everyone has it but nobody really uses it. It's still rare to see if nobody who has it actually uses it! Of course, I don't think it should be a requirement at all. But I highly doubt they are going to remove it, so I think it needs to be all 5. Why do they have to all be a requirement if 1 is a requirement? I don't see any reason for this. As I have already established there are limitations even to the trim cape, so why can't 1 title only be limitation as well?

Making it so you need all 5 titles for the trim requirement is so stupid. I say this as someone who has all 5 titles (took me a total of 15 hours for all 5, stretched over the course of a week, so I basically only did it casually). I did it because I liked the title, not because of trim (which I don't intend to go for). All because of a bunch of saddistic whinners who think that everything should be a trim requirement, otherwise it's not legit or whatever. Why does it have to be a trim requirement? Just to torture people with a stupid luck-based requirement? I like the idea of the title being exclusive, with only a few people having the title, and only those who like the title itself going out to hunt for them. Instead it's a trim requirement then hundreds if not thousands will grind it out for it, because they will be compelled to. Same with the 'Of Daemonheim' title (which I also have), and which I got because I actually liked the title (dungeoneering is one of my favourite skills, or was pre-EoC). Let people like me hunt for stuff like this casually because we actually like it, and leave the trimmers alone, it rewards people like me for our quirky tastes, and it doesn't force our play-style onto others. It's a win-win. Some people say that trim is by definition meant to have extreme requirements, which is sort of true, but even extreme things, including trim, have limits. Which is why, for instance, it doesn't require 120 in all skills or 200M in all skills - that even trim has requirements is self-evident. There's no reason why the titles have to be a trim requirement.

I would guess that if those players continue to do so after this point, they'll get smacked; I think Jagex took a rather lax approach to the whole situation because they (that is, Mod Balance) were unclear about what exactly the rule was and how it was enforced. But they were doing it before Mod Balance made his infamous clarification. They knew it was against the rules, but they did it anyways because they figured Jagex was too lazy to actually enforce the rule (just as Jagex doesn't really punish Castle Wars boosters anymore). That's not really an excuse, and it was clear to them and everyone else, that it was indeed against the rules.

So in that clarification post, Jagex is saying that you can't rig minigames with alts or game mechanics. It's such a blatant case of favouritism and selective enforcement. Several first page highscore players, and famous twitch.tv streamers (iTrolledU, and Dragonsceance) openly use alt accounts to boost SC - J Mods are friends with them, watch their streams, and fawn at them at every opportunity. Are they going to get banned or disciplined anytime soon? I doubt it. There are threads talking about this on HLF, and some abusers are openly defending themselves (such as Dragonsceance). However, I know for a fact that if I or any other normal players were to attempt this and we triggered some automated detection set up by Jagex or if we were reported by some player, we'd probably be banned in 2 seconds. Jagex has no interest in enforcing this rule if you're a famous or affluent player - it's a sham. It's only illegal if you're a normal player.

Once more Jagex is obsessed with the RNG, some people have gotten it within 20 minutes, other are still dry a few hours later. It's a title, but still... Lame.

Hardly. People have been multilogging for ages, including very famous players, and even J Mods are active in FCs where they know multilogging is occurring (Castle Wars fcs). Striking down this rule makes it so everyone can do it, rather than only famous players with connections who can easily get out of a ban for such things.

Just found out that the Mage ability immediately cancels if your target or you move, thus making it even more useless, especially for things like Rago. RIP.

The mage ability is underwhelming, it's basically another asphyxiate without the stun. The range one is very good. I had many discussions with the Ninja team back when the Range buff was being discussed on how to make Range equal to mage. One of the things I suggested was that Rangers needed their own Omni, kind of like how Mage and Melee have Omnipower and Overpower. Rangers only have incendiary shot, which is restricted to 2h (and worse than Omni/Over) thus making it fairly useless. Of course they never did listen. Now they give Rangers their Omni but make it way better than Mager's Omni. Why can't Jagex do things the simple way? All they had to do was copy Omni/Over (which are identical) for Rangers, and all would be good. Instead they go the same old route of trying to make things different for the combat styles (while paradoxically trying to 'balance' the triangle), which always leads to a discrepancy with one style being vastly superior to the others. At the moment it appears Range got the best out of today's update by far. From what little I have heard, the familiars seem trash. Also, kind of funny how the May BTS said the abilities would be Ultimates, but are actually thresholds (it's probably better this way). The healing ability is sort of meh as well. Good day for rangers, meh for magers.

If I remember correctly, I think ZMI rates weren't that bad (for that time, though it was still probably one of the slowest skills). The problem was that a lot of people just didn't like running to altars, and Runecrafting in those days was one of the most likely candidates that people had for using Penguin Points and Tears of Guthix on - because it really was a horribly boring and tedious skill to train. Granted Runespan was a very substantial increase in the experience, but I think the thing people most appreciated about it was the hassle it removed, namely going to Altars and stuff. As it currently stands, Runespan is more or less like Divination. I know Divination energies have crashed, but at the moment Incandescent energies are 120 GP each, and basically you stand all day at the node and you get them. Similarly, blood runes (some of the most useful runes) are what? 210-250 GP (a rough guess based on GE charts). So if you could get them from Runespan, it'd roughly be comparable to the energies you get from incandescent (especially if we go back a few months when energies were worth more). Would it really be that bad if people could get them from Runespan? Sure, they'd crash a little, but that'd be about it. You could stand at an Incandescent node and get 3 energies per normal, for 120 GP each. At Runespan, since Blood Nodes/creatures are a bit slower, you'd get less, but at the end of the day it's comparable. You get some money on the side, and experience in mostly an AFK effortless manner.

This. All that would do is make the newly revamped altar runecrafting far more godly/broken than Runespan ever was, and everyone would simply shift to that. You can either have Runespan or Altar Runecrafting, but you can't have both. By their very nature, one would eclipse the other. Everything else in the game is pretty much effortless as well, why not make Runecrafting that too? I stopped there. That's a rather flippant and lazy response, to make some vague connection to some formal fallacy, and leave that as some sort of 'trump card'. If everything else in the game is effortless, why should Runecrafting be singled out to return it to some obsolete and tedious mode of training? I don't care of you think that's a lazy response, just because lots of other thing have been made easier doesn't mean you have to make everything extremely easy and absolutely effortless. There aren't only two options. If they don't let us keep the runes we (effortlessly) make at runespan, that doesn't mean we have no choice but to keep an "outdated"method. The fact that everything else is relatively far more effortless in 2014 than it was several years ago is not an automatic reason for why RC can't go back to being the way it used to be, though it is a fairly decent one; what's so special about RC that it needs to be reverted back to what it was? You have yet to provide a reason. The metagame of Runescape has gone in a certain direction, where a lot of training for skills is as easy as possible with plenty of AFK methods, and plenty of conveniences added (whether that be interface or other things such as the action bar or make X or what have you). The old Altar running (unless it is substantially improved) is completely archaic and a bad fit for the current metagame, and will likely be ignored by most players unless it gives a lot of experience - otherwise only the poorest of players will be using it. If this assumption on my part is correct (and I think it is), then what's the point in changing RC back to something that won't appeal to most players? Also if you don't care, then why do you bother engaging in discussion? Seeing as you're just putting words in my mouth, I'm going to stop bothering here. Those are the two options that were discussed in this thread, and the one which I was originally responding to. We can either revamp Altar running so people have some sort of incentive to do that and make runes, or we can simply allow people to keep the runes they make at Runespan (the so-called effortless method). There may be other options, but these are two discussed in this thread and the live ones. I personally favour something along the lines of simply letting people keep the runes they make at Runespan. You originally argued against this option, and it was that post of yours to which I was responding. If you have alternative schemes, by all means post them.

Everything else in the game is pretty much effortless as well, why not make Runecrafting that too? I stopped there.That's a rather flippant and lazy response, to make some vague connection to some formal fallacy, and leave that as some sort of 'trump card'. If everything else in the game is effortless, why should Runecrafting be singled out to return it to some obsolete and tedious mode of training?I don't care of you think that's a lazy response, just because lots of other thing have been made easier doesn't mean you have to make everything extremely easy and absolutely effortless. There aren't only two options. If they don't let us keep the runes we (effortlessly) make at runespan, that doesn't mean we have no choice but to keep an "outdated"method. The fact that everything else is relatively far more effortless in 2014 than it was several years ago is not an automatic reason for why RC can't go back to being the way it used to be, though it is a fairly decent one; what's so special about RC that it needs to be reverted back to what it was? You have yet to provide a reason. The metagame of Runescape has gone in a certain direction, where a lot of training for skills is as easy as possible with plenty of AFK methods, and plenty of conveniences added (whether that be interface or other things such as the action bar or make X or what have you). The old Altar running (unless it is substantially improved) is completely archaic and a bad fit for the current metagame, and will likely be ignored by most players unless it gives a lot of experience - otherwise only the poorest of players will be using it. If this assumption on my part is correct (and I think it is), then what's the point in changing RC back to something that won't appeal to most players? Also if you don't care, then why do you bother engaging in discussion?

Ring resets? What are those?

Everything else in the game is pretty much effortless as well, why not make Runecrafting that too? I stopped there. That's a rather flippant and lazy response, to make some vague connection to some formal fallacy, and leave that as some sort of 'trump card'. If everything else in the game is effortless, why should Runecrafting be singled out to return it to some obsolete and tedious mode of training?

Everything else in the game is pretty much effortless as well, why not make Runecrafting that too? We even get famous streamers getting millions of experience per day in slow and once-prestigious skills such as Slayer, with Jagex coming personally to congratulate them (whereas in the past something like this would have instantly been nerfed for being the overpowered thing it is). Trying to rejuvenate old runecrafting (which indeed was horrible) in 2014 is a joke. Everyone in 2014 is mostly geared towards experience (hence why bonus weekends win over double drops, because experience is the end-goal) . Unless a reworked old runecrafting gives the best experience or close to it, no one will do it, except lower level players who basically have to, because they need money. In a world of 200Ms and 120s, everything that doesn't give lots of experience is meaningless, and no experience rates, and no AFK methods are overpowered (because on a scale of 200M, even a couple million experience points per hour would result in 10's of hours for 200M, which in 2014 is in par with getting 99s for lower level players, which also require 10s of hours).

That seems like a fundamentally bad strategy. The whole point should be to focus on problematic areas that are known as such and fix them up while preserving as much of the good stuff as possible. Doing something completely different every single week based on the popular whims of a minority of forum posters is a bad idea, creates needless speculation, panic, confusion, and takes away confidence in the beta. Start with simple things, such as stuns, imbalance between range, mage, and melee, the special abilities and so on. Don't just randomly change everything every week, it accomplishes nothing, and is not enough time to accurately assess the major changes they are making. Right now it seems like they have very little direction, and are just going in whichever way the wind blows.

[qfc]360-361-392-65368444[/qfc] Goddamnit. Really not happy with those changes. I read about that in the beta. I am not sure how I feel. When EoC came out, I did feel it basically made preexisting boss significantly wimpier. For instance, whereas before you had to pray protection prayers at bosses such as Armadyl and Sara and soloing was somewhat challenging, post-EoC you could just sit on SS all day without any trouble. So this is certainly something that should/could have been done immediately post-EoC to help things along. However now it's been way too long and a lot of those bosses are medium level at best, so trying to make them difficult for higher-level players is a fundamentally pointless activity, as things like Godswords are just no that useful to someone like me. It'd be kind of senseless if you needed Drygores or Seismics to camp effectively weapons that are needed for level 70-85 player in a Runescape where you level faster than ever before.

It's much better this way. The Super September Challenge (although I completed all 30) was sort of tedious.

Been there, done that. Though I ended up getting the same piece shortly thereafter, way back in 2012 when I was going for 99 thieving. Wasn't too ragetastic.