Ok, we have all heard variations on the theme of Smithing is pointless and/or useless countless times, but why is it considered such? Smithing used to be a highly valued skill, the ability to make the best armour in the game at a time, meant that PvPers and PvMers relied on skillers to produce the weapons and armour that kept them compative, getting 99 smithing was considered a licence to print GP and high level smiths would be able to afford to have dozens if not hundreds of miners and merchants suppling them (I'm lookingh at you Zezima, Bluerose) knowing that they would be able to make a profit from what they made. Now? 1: Rune (at least in p2p,) is seen almost as junk, Dragon, Barrows, Granite and now the newer GWD armours make it obsolete, 2: Unless you can mine all the ores you need it is EXTREMELY expensive to level compared to other 'secondry' skills, (i.e fletching, cooking and runecraft) )the price of <s>most</s> all ores far outstrips the cost of finised items. 3: Even if you can mine all the ores yourself to get to 85 you would have at least 99 mining, ( assuming 40 to 99 smithing is about 250k coals or equvilent) 4: PvM far outshines it as a means to make money, in the time it takes to make any money from smithing, a player camping TDs, Abbysal demons or GWDs would make many tens of millions of gold more. So is there a solution? 1: No, adding asthetic touches (cannon updates) or ways of gaining experience quicker (SC hammers) only further devalues the skill, players like myself who smelted steel bars 'generally' feel short changed as they believe there hard work is underminded by cheap or showy updates 2: Yes but PvMers arn't going to like it... Adding the ability to make granite or dragon items to smithing will be incredibly unpopular, hordes of players would likely respond "OMG wats the point of training slayer to 85 if I can just smith a granite maul?!"