qeltar

Yes, that's why I said "positive assertion". Proving a negative is usually difficult, and often impossible.

Quite a set of logical fallacies on display here... No, nobody can negate your personal experience. But we CAN point out that your personal experience -- assuming you are being honest -- doesn't necessarily imply anything general. If the only Christian person I know is a priest who turns out to be a pedophile, that doesn't mean that all Christians are pedophiles. You can believe any silly fairy tales you want, but you don't get to make up facts. Marriage predates the bible. Period. Full stop. You can believe otherwise, just like you can believe the earth is flat (like your bible says) but that doesn't make it so. The onus of proof is on the person making a positive assertion. If you want to claim the necessity of a masculine and feminine influence on child development, it is up to YOU to provide evidence to support it, not up to others to try to disprove it. Otherwise, I could post saying the core of the moon is made of green cheese and make you try to prove otherwise.

Sometimes things are considered "elite" for a reason.

Presumably, if I break enough of your arbitrary laundry list of rules, or dare to speak my mind too many times about the capricious and overzealous moderation here, you'll ban me from the forum. I'd really prefer not to do any of that, so please just deactivate the account. Thank you.

Please delete or deactivate my account. Thank you. Sorry for posting this here, I looked but couldn't find any contact button.

You can try your luck with herb cleaning and/or low-level barbarian mixes. My latest numbers suggest energy potions are a relatively inexpensive option if you want more XP/hr; prayer pots are about 25% faster and double the monetary loss right now.

Thanks. Yeah, there are a lot of things to take into account. I've done extensive analysis of different methods as part of a detailed Barrows guide I wrote for my previous site, and then again for my moneymaking guide. I ended up with methods generally assuming about 9 minutes per run "net net", meaning everything taken into account. I've found that sometimes when I try to go faster I end up making mistakes that cause me to eventually go slower, such as clicking the wrong puzzle answer and getting the doors scrambled, wasting supplies, or even getting close to dying. The cost of a method is also quite important, since money is the only real reason to do Barrows. My latest figures show an average value per chest of about 145k right now. This means that a method that takes 7 minutes per chest but costs 45k per chest is not any better than one that takes 9 minutes per chest but costs 15k per chest. Yes, you get a bit more mage XP, though some would argue that you can train mage more effectively in other ways. Roughly how many runes do you end up using over 12 chests?

Here ya go. :)

Thanks. I guess I didn't realize you were using a super prayer dose on each run, but I should have given they are in your inventory. (I was doing my tests using no prayer pots at all.) Also: When I first started doing Barrows, there seemed to be some annoying bug where if you clicked the stairs while the dude was doing his melodrama death routine, sometimes it wouldn't count the kill. Is that fixed now? Okay so you are just maging all the way then, no salamander. Gotcha. He can do quite a bit of damage on you though. This is the part I find a bit suspect. Trying to deal with Dharok in the tunnels using safespots and whatnot even once can really throw off your average time. Ahrim and Karil I usually deal with in the tunnels using my SGS, but they can be pretty tough as well -- especially if you are running around half dead waiting for the overload to wear off. :) And if using DDS or claws for spec the SGS is useless. Edit: NVM, I realize you are just using the staff for the bonus, not actually on Ancients.

Well, I'm certainly not going to call you a liar. Maybe you're just a lot faster at this than I am, or maybe you got lucky in terms of how far you had to run to the chests. But I have never been able to get anywhere near that speed on 12 chests in a row, and I don't know anyone else who has either. So something is definitely amiss. It would be helpful if you could explain more clearly exactly what your sequence is on each chest.. what order you to the brothers in, when you take your pots, etc.

Yeah I should say I was straight Ancienting here, not even using the lizard. I figured that would be even faster, but you're right that using it only once you can avoid the autocast. In my experience though a single freeze doesn't last long enough to keep them immobile long enough to kill them. Still not entirely convinced by this anyway. Even a single cast is half the cost of a prayer potion dose, and the method I use I need only one dose per run. And you still have to deal with Ahrim and Karil here, which are the toughest after Dharok anyway. If you only take into account the time to do the run, and you are teleing out afterwards, sure, 6 minutes is doable. But not in the long run if doing multiple chests per trip.

So many words, so little information. ;)

Okay, I tried it. :) Maybe I'm missing something, but I still wasn't impressed. It was fast, but not 6 minutes per chest fast (which I definitely don't believe now, sorry.) Doesn't strike me as particularly faster than not using Ancients. Yes, you can avoid using prayer potions, but the runes cost more than that anyway. It's also very "fiddly" with the constant need to change equipment, and turning autocast off and on all the time is a real nuisance. Finally, I found myself having to wait for my Magic level to restore enough to cast, after taking my overloads, which was a bummer.

I'll try it again -- always willing to be proven wrong. I've somewhat soured on the lizard tanking method of late, it seems to take longer than it used to for some reason. Last time I tried ancients though, it didn't work nearly as well as I expected...

No offense, but as someone who has done a lot of measurements and experimentation with respect to Barrows, I find the 6 minutes/chest claim a bit suspect. If you get unlucky with door positioning it can take 2-3 minutes just to run in and find the chest and run back out again, so I think that's really pushing it if you are in fact counting everything and accounting for less-than-ideal positioning of the chest. Maybe you don't get any kill count aside from the brothers? Even then that's really pushing it. I also have never seen the attraction of using ancients at Barrows. It just strikes me as a gigantic hassle and waste of money. (Yes you get XP, but not much per hour, and there are far better and/or more fun ways of doing it, IMO).

Even that is complete speculation. It's quite common for prices to spike for reasons that have nothing to do with merchants. But nothing *does* double in price over night -- it takes a couple of weeks thanks to the foolish way the GE operates. We would be better off if prices DID double overnight and then immediately go back down, as used to happen, rather than everyone sitting in limbo for weeks unable to trade. So in addition to all of the existing nonsense that saps the fun out of the game, you want MORE places where bureaucrats who barely if ever play the game telling you how much you "honestly" need? 5,000 iron ore takes less than 5 hours to smelt. Oh, what's that, we could pick a different number? Sure -- how do we decide? It's a distraction. Merchant clans are a symptom of a messed up market. The solution is to fix the market. Take the ridiculous price controls off the GE and most of the issues with these clans would disappear overnight. It is, except when it isn't.

Huh? What thread are you reading, pal?

What exactly do you mean by that?

Okay, thanks about the multiquote, hadn't considered that. I still don't get why it matters if both posts are reasonable. Sometimes you respond to one post and then notice you want to reply to another, later on. What does it matter?

I don't think that would solve the problem at all. It would just mean longer periods of time where real players can't buy or sell the items they need. The limits you are proposing are unfair and will just gum up the works even more. Amusingly, it is the GE price limits themselves that are largely responsible for this situation. Jagex put price controls in to produce "stability" and prevent market manipulation, but it has had the opposite effect. Market manipulation requires low trading volume, easy information about price movements, and the ability to communicate buy and sell decisions. The current GE system makes it easy for players to choose items to manipulate because they know exactly what the price will do and when it will do it, and because the bogus pricing on thousands of items knocks trade quantities down to where a single clan can dominate the entire market. There are both systemic and reactive steps that Jagex could take to deal with this situation, but more controls is not the answer. They are responsible for a tiny fraction of it, at best. They are just a convenient scapegoat. No, the economy is screwed up because of excessive Jagex control, combined with inadequate oversight. Not really. RWT was directly hurting their bottom line and threatening their ability to accept credit cards for subscription payments. This is just a gameplay issue.

In a thread yesterday I replied to two different people. I usually reply using the "quote" feature, so I did this with two posts. They were done one after the other, and both had relevant comments. Some time later an admin edited these two posts into one and chastised me for "double posting". Sorry, but I don't really get what the problem is here. And if I need to reply to multiple people where I quote each of them, doing so in one post seems like a real pain.. I'd have to hit quote, copy paste, then back out and do the other one, etc. Thanks.

Oh of course.. nobody would ever accuse you of self-promotion. Well, that's entirely different then! Folks, this clan is obviously trustworthy because the leader says that everyone works together. (You know, unlike all the other clans where the leader tells you up front that he's going to rip you off?) Look, see, he said it right there! Join now, beat the rush... :rolleyes:

And how exactly did you accomplish that? Besides a divine spirit shield, it can be done using a phoenix necklace. Technically your HP does drop below 30, but it comes right back up fast enough to not notice it. I used two of them. Phoenix necklace.. clever idea, if that's what he did. The rest of his argument is still cabbage of course. ;)

That's a bummer. What are you wearing?

There must be something with your technique that is lacking. Are you using piety? Are you restoring and repotting frequently? I doubt a godsword would really make that much of a difference, but I'm sure someone here can lend you a BGS if you think it will.