RU_Insane

We don't have an idea under what circumstances he lied, why he chose to lie as opposed to alternatives, or why lying in this particular instance means that he's prone to do it again in a completely different situation. I'll note that we're passing judgment on this person's values by his actions when in fact he could cherish those same values (honesty, integrity) as much as you or I do. You can't claim the person doesn't honor those values when you essentially have no idea what criteria he used to come to that decision, and what specific circumstance he found himself in that influenced the weight of a particular set of criteria would have over another. In other words, his actions in the past don't necessarily determine his actions in the future. What if that decision was in fact the best possible decision he could arrive at in that situation with regards to his legal and financial well-being? Would you not do the same as he did? Honesty and integrity can step-aside when your well-being is involved and honestly, when the work you find yourself in is deplorable in itself to much of the game's population. Not saying that's entirely why he chose to lie, but it could've been a prominent factor. There are many paths he could've chosen under those conditions. The fact that he chose to lie, out of other options he possibly considered doesn't mean that he doesn't value truth, honor and integrity any less as some here seem to be implying. If you're implying that, you should know that's a severe error in logic.

Of course not, that's because Jagex is the only one authorized to sell their product. The fact the transaction takes place in real-life isn't the issue. It's who the item legally belongs to that's important.

Short answer, yes. Long answer, no. It's real world trading in the sense that the transaction takes place in real-life outside of RuneScape. The problem I find that leads me to say no, is that the item is only generated after the code is redeemed. That means it's Jagex's property (as an in-game item) after the code is redeemed. No actual Jagex property was involved in the transaction itself. Rather, what was traded was a means to generate an in-game item which is consequently Jagex property. Real world trading is defined as a transaction involving already existing in-game items for real-world payment. A code printed on a ticket isn't an in-game item, it's an external means for generating an in-game item. In addition, there's no actual item transfer, since the item is placed with the user who redeemed the code. In short, the item is generated, not transferred. And so I can't see Jagex punishing a player since no actual Jagex property is involved in the transaction. Presumably, the code that generates the item belongs to the player, not Jagex, since he/she bought the RuneFest ticket that came with it. And as you know, once you buy something, it's yours. (In fact this isn't true, I'm just citing this as a general example). So I'd say the person's free to sell that code as they wish. I'm not absolutely certain though, since I'm questioning whether or not Jagex legitimately owns the code (depending on how they market the ticket sales) or if the player in fact owns it. I'd say 80% certainty it's not real-world trading for two reasons: 1. No actual Jagex property was transferred in the transaction 2. The player should be free to sell the code as it's their property and not Jagex's considering they bought it The only exception I'm thinking of for #2 is if there were any terms the players agreed to when they bought the ticket which stipulated against reselling the included code for profit.

Here's another surprise: Jacmob developed a bot client that worked after the Bot Nuke. As sources on that forum have it, Jacmob took his bot client to RuneFest, showed it working with no problems in front of the mods (he had balls to do that, huh?) . Mod MMG et al. freak out. The two parties then discussed related matters privately and he apparently came out of the meeting with a job. :lol: Lucky guy. He'd been making cash selling scripts beforehand, now he has a legit career. Like others, I'm thinking he was threatened with legal action if he released the client. Either way, I wouldn't reject that job offer. He's making bank now.

Yeah, that's the prevailing theory. It [programming] is something he likes to do anyway. I would take it if I were in his position.

The owner of RSBuddy was working for Jagex undercover for quite a while. :lol: Jagex paid him to help them combat bots He works for Jagex now on contract or something. You won't believe how fast the botting community turned against him Seriously, check out that forum. It's much worse than RSOF on December 10 '07 lmao. I'll find more details, they're easy finds. So, to sum up: 1. Jagex says they're going to rid the game of bots once and for all 2. Botting communities call Jagex's bluff, get overconfident 3. Nuke is released 4. Botting community laughs, then realizes the gravity of the situation, rages 5. RSBuddy owner confirmed to work for Jagex, RSBuddy is converted into a fansite, botting as an industry pwned for good 6. Legit players lol@raging botters Basically, Jacmob is the greatest RuneScape troll ever. He said the bot was going to be back up, he lied. Lied through his teeth, and he sold out to Jagex. He won't even refund the money that the botters paid for the scripts :lol: (well sources are conflicted on this) Once again, botters gonna mad.

Oo. Interesting O:

Certainly. Concerning bot detection, I imagine there really aren't many bots left in the game at this point. Maybe Jagex will kill off the rest by sending JMods after them :lol: That'd be fun to see. Let the developers kill the pest, then have the mods take out the trash :P

Totally agree with the first article and my Dungeoneering level's 8 :P

... and how does one get this in-house currency that cannot be bought? :unsure: No, you seem to have misunderstood (as usual). Gambling is dangerous in real-life because it becomes a preoccupation of the addict, to the point where they need to spend excessive amounts of their money in order to sustain the addiction at the expense of other vital needs. If someone becomes addicted to dicing on RuneScape, they'll lose all their GPs and... then what? Whether someone loses 1gp or 100 billion gp is irrelevent, each player on RuneScape can lose a maximum of £3.50 per account per calander month. Gambling on RuneScape is not as dangerous as gambing in Las Vegas is, just as the three dozen or so free-to-play poker apps on Facebook/IPhone/Blackberry/Android which use "made up" currency aren't really dangerous either, all of which are quite routinely used by under-18s. Hell, even Super Mario 64 on the DS had a spoof version of five-card poker. I'm not personally seeing the hoards of prepubescent Mario addicts you seem to be suggesting would be the inevitable consequence of said feature. In any case, I actually see this discussion as being besides the point. The fact is, Jagex doesn't need to facilitate dicing in order to essentially allow it on a de facto basis. They simply need to not stop it, even when it's clearly obvious it's taking place. You're right in saying gambling is dangerous, however I'd rather have the gambling controlled and monitored, than being left to simply run riot in the middle of the Grand Exchange. Since I am still in the process of my usual misunderstanding :rolleyes: please -- you still have not explained how someone gets a hold of this "in-house" currency that you've deemed to be entirely safe. I assume he means gp. :rolleyes: No, you don't get a hold of the in-house currency because it's in-house. It doesn't leave the casino, hence it can't be traded for real life goods. It's for the same reason you can't real world trade, say, Pizzaz points. I suppose you technically could, but that would require access to your account, since the currency is bound to your character as opposed to freely floating in an open market (which is what gold coins are). Gold coins can be freely exchanged between players. Character-bound currencies cannot. Hence why an "in-house" currency (a currency which is only active when your character's in the casino) could not "grabbed hold" of; there's nothing to grab on to. That's if I understood your question. If you're referring to how you earn it in the first place, I assume you'd earn it in the casino, and what you earn deactivates when you leave it (meaning you and only you could have access to that particular iteration of currency). So -- in other words -- neither of you know for sure either. Let me make this a little more "clear": how does one "earn" in house credit? Are we all simply assigned a number, like loyalty points, and then we go to this "in-house casino" to gamble those credits away? If so -- where is the fun or challenge in that? Sounds to me like you're trying to make an in-house casino to be about as much "fun" and "use" to the RS community as all the other in-game "activities" that no one else plays. :rolleyes: Actually, considering earning credit, I'm not sure the idea's viable. If I understood what he said, the currency would never leave the casino, but that would mean gambling it would be useless anyway -- you'd could never use it to purchase things, which is what gamblers would eventually want to do. Let alone the question of how you earn credit in the first place anyway.

Oh! I see what you mean now. Yeah, you're right. :P Though depending on the statement made, it could boil down to laziness. If I state something to be well-known fact, like "Obama is the current President of the US", and someone challenges me on that point, I'd tell them to Google it since it requires almost no effort to. If they still refuse, well, no effort wasted. I've actually had that happen to me before, too. I make an obvious statement and someone challenges me on it. Luckily, it only happens with pure idiots, and I've encountered a handful of them in my travels across the Internet XD

I hope you see the irony in what you just said. You're telling him to fact-check I did not. I said that if someone doesn't believe your claim then it's your job to prove it. Backing up your claims with evidence to substantiate them is fact-checking. You check facts to prove something along with reasoning and other evidence. The two are not mutually exclusive. The problem with what you said is that, again, you're asking him to fact-check (or if you prefer, prove) a claim about fact-checking. It's self-evident that failing to fact-check is usually indicative of at least a disinterest in the truth of a statement. You can also occasionally chock up failure of such to oversight. In that case, it's not so much the laziness to fact-check as opposed to (usually) a subtle error that takes some digging to get to. In other cases, its gross incompetence as the culprit for failure to fact-check. In either case, I agree that there are many outcomes besides laziness that are responsible for failure to verify your facts. So I see why you told Croce to prove what he claimed. That said, even if there are other causes behind failure of verification, it doesn't make his statement any less true. Crocefisso was making a specific statement about a process in debate. It's true that many people are lazy to check facts -- hence why I said it's self evident and he doesn't need to prove his claim beyond that. If he were positing an absolute as opposed to a particular (i.e. everyone who fails to fact-check is lazy), I'd agree that he'd have to prove his claim beyond self-evidence. I understand that he's positing a particular, not an absolute, given how he phrased his claim.

Hence Ginger's solution to the problem being that the currency is in-house. You can't purchase in-house currency to gamble with; you earn it there and it stays there. The question now is, how would you earn it? At least, that's how I understand what he said.

... and how does one get this in-house currency that cannot be bought? :unsure: No, you seem to have misunderstood (as usual). Gambling is dangerous in real-life because it becomes a preoccupation of the addict, to the point where they need to spend excessive amounts of their money in order to sustain the addiction at the expense of other vital needs. If someone becomes addicted to dicing on RuneScape, they'll lose all their GPs and... then what? Whether someone loses 1gp or 100 billion gp is irrelevent, each player on RuneScape can lose a maximum of £3.50 per account per calander month. Gambling on RuneScape is not as dangerous as gambing in Las Vegas is, just as the three dozen or so free-to-play poker apps on Facebook/IPhone/Blackberry/Android which use "made up" currency aren't really dangerous either, all of which are quite routinely used by under-18s. Hell, even Super Mario 64 on the DS had a spoof version of five-card poker. I'm not personally seeing the hoards of prepubescent Mario addicts you seem to be suggesting would be the inevitable consequence of said feature. In any case, I actually see this discussion as being besides the point. The fact is, Jagex doesn't need to facilitate dicing in order to essentially allow it on a de facto basis. They simply need to not stop it, even when it's clearly obvious it's taking place. You're right in saying gambling is dangerous, however I'd rather have the gambling controlled and monitored, than being left to simply run riot in the middle of the Grand Exchange. Since I am still in the process of my usual misunderstanding :rolleyes: please -- you still have not explained how someone gets a hold of this "in-house" currency that you've deemed to be entirely safe. No, you don't get a hold of the in-house currency because it's in-house. It doesn't leave the casino, hence it can't be traded for real life goods. It's for the same reason you can't real world trade, say, Pizzaz points. I suppose you technically could, but that would require access to your account, since the currency is bound to your character as opposed to freely floating in an open market (which is what gold coins are). Gold coins can be freely exchanged between players. Character-bound currencies cannot. Hence why an "in-house" currency (a currency which is only active when your character's in the casino) could not "grabbed hold" of; there's nothing to grab on to. That's if I understood your question. If you're referring to how you earn it in the first place, I assume you'd earn it in the casino, and what you earn deactivates when you leave it (meaning you and only you could have access to that particular iteration of currency).

I hope you see the irony in what you just said. You're telling him to fact-check on a claim which deals with burden of proof, the truth of which is self-evident.

I sometimes misread words to be completely different. Probs happened to you too :P I mean these are all good ideas but it would only be a fantasy if it was implanted. A couple of these ideas (regards reporting) were implemented recently though. That doesn't seem like fantasy :P Why shouldn't it be possible.

They implemented it yesterday in the bot nuke ^^

Can't you just log onto another world lol :P

Now it says "launch imminent". :P

Maybe Jagex is taking down a few servers to clean up the mess. I dunno. :P

Hopefully none >.>

Then you're screwed, unless you can recover the account in time (with other details) and request a new PIN >_< :P

Six hours left till the bot nuke. :thumbsup:

I sometimes misread words to be completely different. Probs happened to you too :P

Awesome graphics, short and to the point. Support! :mrgreen: