Me_Hate_Libs

I've parlayed by degree along with certification into that as a librarian. I work with kids on a daily basis and am sure I do more good in this world than you do. Also being a librarian, I've seen many people pkaying Runescape ion the public computers and I've watch the age of players fall to around the age of 12. I'm personally 24, 25 in mid may and am not that old, but as far as maturity goes, compared to you I'm probably around 78. Yes, Qeltars point about it not interaction is good, and I do understand the point about Construction, is that is still produces something tanigle, even if only cosmetic. It is set aside in it's own little place and I get that too, but you won't find me falling over myself to defend that skill like people are doing for this skill. My, how civil we've suddenly become. I don't see anyone critizing Construction, unlike this skill. Well, you are at least as being argumentive as the rest of us for sustaining this debate. It's hardly fair to post your opinion and then expect no one to have any response to it. They aren't criticizing it, but they're trying to debate our point by pointing out a similarity between Cons and Dung. I admit the point, but don't think it's as important as they think. I am arumenative, but I wasn't the one who out of no where started referring to person as worthless and attacking them personally. Trust me, I can attack someone personally and really be nasty about it, but it's not my style. I am, and I've said this many times before, a curmudgeon. I'm don't direct it at anybody specifically though. And thanks Gabe. :)

I've parlayed by degree along with certification into that as a librarian. I work with kids on a daily basis and am sure I do more good in this world than you do. Also being a librarian, I've seen many people pkaying Runescape ion the public computers and I've watch the age of players fall to around the age of 12. I'm personally 24, 25 in mid may and am not that old, but as far as maturity goes, compared to you I'm probably around 78. Yes, Qeltars point about it not interaction is good, and I do understand the point about Construction, is that is still produces something tanigle, even if only cosmetic. It is set aside in it's own little place and I get that too, but you won't find me falling over myself to defend that skill like people are doing for this skill. And I am going to put you on ignore because as far as I can tell, you offer nothing that I particularly care about or want to read. May I suggest you do the same and shut up about all this?

You do know that's the equivalent of trying to put out a fire by blowing at it really hard?

I would have to imagine it's like having a room full of naked women. Some have flat chest, some have bigger ones. Some are blondes, some are brunettes, and even a few redheads. Some are Asian, some might be Brazilian, and perhaps a pale Brit or two. But as much as you like naked women, they're so many to choose from you don't know what to do first. :ohnoes: I don;t get what you mean. Perhaps you could paint us a picture :P. JK I can;t wait for this quest line. A GM quest with the series? Would just be easier to take a picture, but sadly Tip frowns upon pictures of naked women are here. Arparently boobs corrupt young minds.

I'm a waste of air? I have a degree in English and have a job. I contribute to society and work with people, helping more noticably children. Combine that with overcoming a genetic disorder that plagues me every single day. This in com[parison to you who is like a freshman in highschool that can't wait for the day when he can touch his first booby. The reason why I don't flame people is because I can't get away with it. I have to stay well within the lines because I would otherwise be persecuted to a greater extent than a typical poster who flames someone, often me. Believe me kid, I could flame you to the point that you'd end up flaming, which you probably already are anyway, but that's another matter. You can disagree with my opinion, but my posts aren't illogical. i simply interpret the facts differently than you do. I don't go out of my way to bicker with people, or denigrate them personally because I don't know them. I have no idea what their personalities are or who they are as a person. If you think you can determine who a person is, let alone what their worth might be, from text on a screen, you are just dumb, you are spectacularly obtuse. Say what you want about me, but I'm glad that their are a few people, like Qeltar, who aren't a bunch of Jagex myrmidons.

No, there's a big difference. They knew MA was a failure before they even put it out. Gonna take a few months before everyone realizes the failure of Dung. ;)

Austin Powers ref? :D Haha I love that arguement. "Leveling your dungeoneering minigame/activity allows you access to deeper levels".. And? They don't provide me anything that I can take into RS either. Only things bought with tokens/zeal/stealing creation points/void points/pieces of eight/castle wars (insert generic minigame points based reward system here) tickets do. Yes it was. :) Oh, and that further cements why it'as a minigame, not a skill. As a skill, it produces, consumes, and achieves nothing. Even Construction gives you a cosmetically appealing house directly from what you can do with the skill.

It allowed you to train your skill so that you could go deeper in the dungeon, which lets you get better experience so you can level up, which lets you go deeper in the dungeon and get even more better experience so that you can level up and go even deeper in the dungeon, which allows for more bestest experience that levels you up so you can go more more deeper into... Oh no I've gone cross eyed. :blink:

I would have to imagine it's like having a room full of naked women. Some have flat chest, some have bigger ones. Some are blondes, some are brunettes, and even a few redheads. Some are Asian, some might be Brazilian, and perhaps a pale Brit or two. But as much as you like naked women, they're so many to choose from you don't know what to do first. :ohnoes:

When I farm I get tons of items I can use to train other skills. For many players it is a *primary* source of materials for Herblore. Do I get that here? Nope. Nothing but a trinket or two I can buy once, sometime down the line. I also get food I can use for combat, combat which yields seeds for Farming. Is there any sort of integration like this with Dungeoneering? Nope. And no plans to do it, either. I think one point many are missing in this debate is that one of the reasons some of us have a problem with this being called a skill is that it takes the slot of a *real* skill. It used to be that Jagex put out a new skill every 6 to 12 months. This time they waited 27 months, and the skill they released really isn't. But now they'll say "new skill released in early 2010" and it could be 27 *more* months until we get a real one. Again, I do think this is a nice piece of content. But it's really a minigame wearing skill's clothing. And yes, it does matter. To reply to what people have said is a waste of time when I can just quote Qeltar and leave it at that. Just treat it as a character development skill that was initially added without any application, like Agility. :thumbup: Of course, we need to rant that it's not a skill until the applications are added. :thumbup: :thumbup: People keep complaining that one of our arguments ins flawed because we have a preconceived notion of what a skill is. You're damn right we do. If you go through the trouble to make skills and minigames seperate, then they should be seperate. If you put them together, what's the point of having them have distinctions between skills and activities. In fact, why go through the hassle of rebranding your minigames as activites when you go and release something that completely blurs the lines between skills and activities? I have a preconceived notion of what fried chicken is too. If some presents me with roasted duck and tries to called it fried chicken I know they're wrong. I don't care if they try to say that it's okay because they're both technically fowl, or the amount of fat in the duck actually fries itself while in the oven, it's not fried chicken. i struggle to see how they can really apply it in another fashion, but maybe they can. I won't held my breath on it though.

And to that, they would put ina Dung skill requirement and make me train that awful skill to complete the quest. *sigh* Suppose that's just speculation though. And Ninane, I don't think we have much in the way of Guthix as these days he's much more of a hands off God, unlike Sara and Zammy.

No, we haven't. The US, and really no where in the world, has ever tried a system of complete Capitalism, it's always been a mixed economy of some fashion. They're tried complete Fascism. complete Communism, and complete Socialsm, all of which have failed. No one's ever done complete Capitalism. Closest we've come was the Industrial Revolution, which most people now think back and think of children working in warehouses and stuff for 10+ hours a day comple0tely ignoring that pre-industrial Revolution those children would have likely died like so many did, but... this is very far off the topic. I've also find that Manipulators/Merchants only really screw up the rare economy. Everything else they've raised the price of is something that you can get on your own. I mean, heaven forbid any of us have to be self sufficient in some way and can't just buy the vast resources to train the skills super duper fast... I find none of this really affects me at all. I can obtain my own armor, get my own weapons, fish and cook my own fish, hunt my own stuff, craft my own runes, cut my own logs and burn/fletch them, mine and smith my own metal object, etc etc etc. Lemme tell you too, it's a beautiful thing.

When I farm I get tons of items I can use to train other skills. For many players it is a *primary* source of materials for Herblore. Do I get that here? Nope. Nothing but a trinket or two I can buy once, sometime down the line. I also get food I can use for combat, combat which yields seeds for Farming. Is there any sort of integration like this with Dungeoneering? Nope. And no plans to do it, either. I think one point many are missing in this debate is that one of the reasons some of us have a problem with this being called a skill is that it takes the slot of a *real* skill. It used to be that Jagex put out a new skill every 6 to 12 months. This time they waited 27 months, and the skill they released really isn't. But now they'll say "new skill released in early 2010" and it could be 27 *more* months until we get a real one. Again, I do think this is a nice piece of content. But it's really a minigame wearing skill's clothing. And yes, it does matter. To reply to what people have said is a waste of time when I can just quote Qeltar and leave it at that.

Would you let a new guy continue an existing storyline? Sure, since on this project he'll be working with two others, it could be done the same way on an existing storyline. I wouldn't do one of the more important ones like the elves, Myreque or MoTM, but I think they could certainly put him on Pirates or Penguins. I guess the newcomers can't all have thew chance to do stupid holiday events which would be better. :P As far as I'm aware, certain developers take care of certain questlines or aspects of Runescape, meaning that Developer A takes care of all Myreque quests, Developer B takes care of the Elves, etc. Ravian is right: They wouldn't just hand an old questline to a new developer unless that questline's previous developer gave it up (like with the dwarves). They try that, but it doesn't really work out that way. In this case, I would like the head of cotent to have said, okay, you can do it in a year. Now go do this stuff so that the guy who normally develops the Elves quests can do something useful like that instead of coding something useless like Familiarisation. :thumbup:

One of the problems with these things are simple oversights that common sense, forgiving all computer knowledge, should take care of. The token costs were from a first draft that got changed during development, but no one was on the ball enough to catch this and it slipped through the cracks? That's what I find so disturbing. A dozen supposed crack game developers spending two years and it's riddled with piddling little mistakes like this? Sad.

I won't scream at you. I'll just say that WoW does something similar, but does it much better. In fact, Jagex has been getting into the business of doing things like WoW, only again, WoW does them much better. Minigames could have ranks too. I think that a ranking in a minigame would be less redefining than screwing about with skill clarifications. But as I've said, in order for it to be a skill, it would have to integrate into the game. I don't want that though, I want this skill to stay in Daemonheim and never infect the regular, enjoyable game. I don't want any quests to have it as a level requirement. I really, really want to ignore that it's even there.

You're the first person other than my Grandfather, who died ten years ago, I've ever seen use "kvetching" . Grandparents were Croatian. I was adopted by Jewish parents. I speak fluent Yiddish, so bite me. Also, I'm personally a laissez-faire Capitalist and a member of the Libertarian in the US. And Blade, I was clearly be facetious. I would detest doing something like that, but even that palls in comparison to how tired of I am of this topic.

As much as I am against it in real life, I'm pretty much open now to having set prices for 90% of products. We can have all the TT items, rares, etc be allowed to fluctuate still, but all the cosmetic stuff that really has no impact on play can take the burden of these merchers/merchanters. And why am I in favor of this? Cause of the constantly fluctuating process? Because it's a necessary thing to save the game? No. i want that just so every can finally shut the hell up about this. After 2 years of hearing people kvetching over this insipid garbage I've had enough! :wall:

The reason why it's important that it's a skill or a minigame is because we have the two. What's the point of having any distinction if they just want to blur the lines? why go through the hassle of changing the name of minigame to activity, when you 2 months later come out with a skill/activity/minigame/whatever. The reason why it's not a skill is intergration. The skill exists solely unto itself in a little world and has no, and I mean, integration into the Runescape whole. That's what skills are, they're things you can do in the world of Runescape, not just on one stupid island/peninsula. And many people will point out Construction. Yeah, it does exist a little within itself, but not to the degree of Dung. It is more of a cosmetic skill. This is a minigame. It started out a game in itself, but they couldn't pull it off. Then it got turned into a skill because of all the time invested in it, it could not simply be a minigame because then it wouldn't get nearly as much traffic as it were a skill. Same goes for why it was made f2p. They had to rebrand it and make it available to everyone because otherwise its use would have been no where close to its development time and it would turned into a unmitigated disaster like Mobilising Armies. I've said it a couple of times, but it's still true. The idea of dung as a skill is Jagex basically trying to hammer a square object in a circular hole. Because it's their game, they have recently begun making all these decrees on things, redefining the game, etc. Then they completely stonewall on the issues. They rarely discuss it in any detailed way. They do it in the name of growth, but a tree can only grow so tall before it falls beneath it's weight.

Personally I'd completely cut off both merchanters and manipulators from the GE. If you want to merch, go do it on the street with stupid little masks and hats. Leave the useful things alone. I'd still like the manipulators dealt with first though.

Would you let a new guy continue an existing storyline? Sure, since on this project he'll be working with two others, it could be done the same way on an existing storyline. I wouldn't do one of the more important ones like the elves, Myreque or MoTM, but I think they could certainly put him on Pirates or Penguins. I guess the newcomers can't all have thew chance to do stupid holiday events which would be better. :P

Just wondering, are you saying that this concept of dungeon exploration should be not be implemented, or could have been implemented in a better way? As a skill, it's a failure. As a minigame, it's a failurew because they already have something extremely similar and do not need another like it. As a concept, it's a failure because while people keep harping on what is and what is not a skill, I think a fundamental part of a skill is that it can be integrated into the game as a whole, not just set aside in one spot. In design I think it's not particularly good. This is combined with it's execution. The whlole thing is overly confusing, the game play is clumsy at best, and it's also a hindrance to solo players because they are restricted in a number of ways. It is, in my opinion, a failure for these reasons. Well, which minigame are we talking about....? Barbarian Assault? How can the concept of raiding and PvE fail as either a minigame or a skill? :mellow: That concept isn't. Jagex however took that concept and expounded on it greatly and it's this total concept that I think is a failure. If it was a minigame, it wouldn't be terrible. However, the concept of making it a skill, when it isn't, and implementing it into a game where it doesn't really fit, which it doesn't, and the skill being completely unto itself and having no intergration with the game outside of itself makes it a complete failure as far as a skill goes.

I guess I'm the only one who sees anything wrong here? I mean, aren't there like a dozen already pre-existing questlines that need a new one in some form? Myreque, Pirate, MoTM, Elves, Arposandra, Dwarves, Penguins/Slugs, are the ones that spring to mind? Do we really have to do this now? I mean, I have no issue with this idea for a small quest arc, but I really wish they would finish a few of the others ones first before doing new ones. :mellow:

Just wondering, are you saying that this concept of dungeon exploration should be not be implemented, or could have been implemented in a better way? As a skill, it's a failure. As a minigame, it's a failurew because they already have something extremely similar and do not need another like it. As a concept, it's a failure because while people keep harping on what is and what is not a skill, I think a fundamental part of a skill is that it can be integrated into the game as a whole, not just set aside in one spot. In design I think it's not particularly good. This is combined with it's execution. The whlole thing is overly confusing, the game play is clumsy at best, and it's also a hindrance to solo players because they are restricted in a number of ways. It is, in my opinion, a failure for these reasons.

ECW, when it was headed by Paul Heyman, was great. It had it's niche. When it got on TNN and went National, it tried to compete with WCW and WWF and got crushed. In the same way, if Jagex pushed Runescape into that group play market, it'll get creamed by games like WoW. The Official forums, yeah, they suck. Most of that is because they let F2pers post, but it's not all the problem. One issue is that the fan base is too big to have it all centralized. It needs to be decentralized and broken down into smaller ones, like Tip. Of course seeing as how Tip bases their forums around Jagex's desires and commands and are now verging on an official forum extension... oy vey.