obfuscator

Pretty accurate. Of course, not all science is true - plenty of science involves theories and educated guesses - which religion and philosophy do as well.

Once again, I'm not talking about religious indoctrination, I'm talking about religious teaching. Perhaps we just disagree. I think it clearly is the same, and you don't; because you don't like religion.

You're probably looking at least at 2.5 hours for the game. I hope you're not going to the game against Phoenix...LA - PHX would probably be the most boring game the league could offer haha... EDIT: Then again, you are from arizona, right? Could be cool to see your home-town team. Unless they're playing calgary, that might be a little more entertaining.

For a lot of people, religion helps them every day of their life. So you'd be completely fine with your child not learning english? Forgive me for being skeptical. And what if your child decided manners didn't apply to them, and refused to say please and thank you? Would you tolerate that because you didn't want to indoctrinate them?

There are people who aren't well accepting of critical analysis in every field, not just religion. And I'm talking about studying the bible from a theological, philosophical, historical, literary and scientific perceptive. There have been thousands of studies done on the bible in every discipline.

Except that thousands of academic studies have been done on the bible. And once again making the blanket generalizations and stereotypes...

What are you, high? Did you even read his post? His point was that we force certain beliefs and practices on our children, because we believe they're for the best. Religion is no different. What would you do if your child decided he didn't want to learn English? Would you tell him it was okay, and that he didn't have to? I doubt it.

What we've learned from this topic: Muggi's life plan involves looking like George Clooney when he's 60 :P

what the [bleep] wouldn't think you being a uni student and a historian would say this the biggest difference being american history (and the english language) has been exhaustively documented, discussed and covered -- and is pretty much asserted and based in fact whilst the other party is spinning fictions And the bible hasn't been exhaustively documented, discussed and covered? Also, as a history student you should know that much of what is taught as historical fact is certainly up in the air - and it's generally accepted that there are large gaps in our knowledge of history and much of what is being taught could be misleading and incorrect.

Do you think it's conceivable that your priorities might change when you are no longer able to live the same lifestyle as can as a young man? Men get just as unattractive as women when they get old - that's the general rule. Women generally care less about physical appearance than men do, that's the difference. There are exceptions to the rule of course (Helen Mirren, anyone?) I won't toot the "sexism" horn, but if women should be doing motherly things in their old age, why should men not be doing fatherly things?

I would go one step further and say that the best christian is one who has questioned their faith - and indeed, all the religious teachers I've had have encouraged that.

I thought you said you were done arguing with me yesterday :P Just out of interest; what do you expect when you're 60+? Also, what do you expect poly amorous women to do once they hit 60?

And at what point did you participate in religious teaching?

They don't both reject scrutiny and critical examination :wall:

I'm making the assumption? It's the very definition of religious indoctrination. Define your terms if you don't agree. There's no point having this discussion if you're going to be too lazy to do these simple tasks to clarify what you mean by moral/immoral/right/wrong/ethical/indoctrination/etc. I'm going to use bold font, maybe that will help you get the point! Here we go! Are you ready? Open your eyes, now! Pay attention! Here it comes... Religious teaching is not the same thing as religious indoctrination.. There! Don't you feel better? Now you understand what my point is, and you can stop ignoring my posts and others because you have no argument!

Once again - you're making the blanket assumption that religious teaching is teaching children to think uncritically, and have not backed it up with any single piece of factual evidence. This is untrue - I don't know how many times I have to say it before you understand it. Teaching children politics, manners, societal behavior - all of that qualifies as indoctrination. But you aren't taking issue with that - that's my point.

Don't see why he would be, because your casting of yourself in that hypothetical situation is pretty half-assed. You've also ignored the posts about other indoctrination of children that happens much more often than religious indoctrination - yet your only issue seems to be with religious indoctrination.

You're the one claiming it is immoral - therefore the onus is on you to prove it so - I haven't seen you do so, despite many baseless claims.

If there's no factual evidence to support your claim, don't make the claim.

Source?

And who says the only way to teach religion is via indoctrination?

in·doc·tri·na·tion  [in-dok-truh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA noun the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine, principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indoctrination Indoctrination doesn't apply only to religion.

So then what should you teach your children at a young age? Because parents teach their children everything - manners, political beliefs - all of those are indoctrination. Would you say that, in the interests of being objective, children should be educated about the merits of communism, or slave labour, for instance? It's the role of a parent to teach their children what to believe, what to think - and to put them in a position to help them make decisions for themselves. Well, imo it's okay to teach a child your religious values simply because there is no possible way to keep someone from it and an attempt to do that would probably only result in something very skewed. On the other hand I do NOT agree with children being made members of the parent's religion without the consent of the child (Baptising them as an infant). It's the child's right to make that decision him/herself. By that token, you shouldn't be able to enroll a child in school, or in sports, or in music lessons, or anything, without their consent. Children are not capable of making many decisions for themselves; so parents do it for them with the child's best interests at heart.

There's nothing to explore. Cash is king and it opens doors to places the common man can't access. Coupled with being celebrity, and you sadly have a get-out-of-jail-free card for most offenses. ~Mike Tyson

So then what should you teach your children at a young age? Because parents teach their children everything - manners, political beliefs - all of those are indoctrination. Would you say that, in the interests of being objective, children should be educated about the merits of communism, or slave labour, for instance? It's the role of a parent to teach their children what to believe, what to think - and to put them in a position to help them make decisions for themselves.