Myweponsg00d

If the cochlear implant actually did what most people think that it does, without having to make a life altering modification to someones skull, I would STILL raise my child as a deaf child, in a deaf school, learning his most natural form of communication which would be manual communication. He is not going to miss out on anything by being raised as a deaf child. If he is unhappy with his Deaf life, that is for him to decide and I would allow him to get the surgery whenever he can clearly communicate to me that he is unsatisfied with his life as a deaf person. And hearing isn't gonna do you any good if you need to communicate with your husband without being heard by the person breaking into your house. And hearing isn't gonna do you any good if someone wants to tell you to move out of the way of a bus but you have your ipod blaring. Hearing and deafness have advantageous situations and disadvantageous situations, both of which are equally as common (or uncommon). For every life-threatening crazy scenario you want to dream up where deafness could kill you, I can create a scenario where hearing will kill you or someone else. And if you want to return to the original topic, the cochlear is just ridiculous. Cochlear implants have more failures than sucesses in children. Some can end up learning english at almost a normal level, but most will end up at 4 years old without having ever developed a language and will grow up to be illiterate adults. Many Deaf people cannot read or write because their families tried to force feed spoken english to them when they were a baby, they missed their language development time period, and now have cognitive difficulty.

I could honestly say the same thing about Deafness. If we all knew ASL I doubt deafness would be considered much of a disability. You should really inform yourself on some deaf culture literature and I think you will be suprised to find out how the deaf feel about their place in society.

Read a book such as "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh, and you will probably understand my comparison. Or if you want a scientific book about Deaf opression, read "Mask of Benevolence" by Harlan Lane. Both books give a very detailed analysis of how our attitude toward deaf children can scar them emotionally and opress their natural abilities. 4 senses is not worse than 5. Do you want me to convince you to get a 3rd arm implanted? Surely 3 arms are better than 2. And lastly, not being able to hear SEEMS TO YOU like it would be more difficult, mainly because you are a hearing person and you are imagining your exact life without your hearing. If you were a deaf person your life would be different, and your attitude toward sound would be different. Okay the point was not really about the picture, but rather about the object that it depicts. Unless you have never had to explain to anyone how to get somewhere? And in a minute I can sign many more words than you can speak. Also ASL has a different, more direct structure, which allows less words to be used in a sentence. And finally, unless you are the tallest person in the world, you have less of an ability to see your surroundings than someone who is taller than you. Do you walk around wishing you were 10 feet tall so you could see over walls? Deaf people dont walk around wishing that they could hear (not all of them)

And how many freaking situations have you been in where your working ears were the only reason you survived?? And don't say that you almost walked into traffic but then heard a car horn, because if you didnt have hearing you wouldnt put yourself in situations where you relied on it like that. And everyone has differences in hearing ability. Your life will be different depending on your height, your life will be different depending on your hearing. Some things are easier for tall people. Some things are easier for short people. Some things are easier for deaf people. Some things are easier for hearing people. And english would only work if you can HEAR the person! Or happen to have their cell number and have the time to text your message. And FYI as a 3 year user of ASL I feel that my range of communication would be much greater than by using spoken english. Like 200 yards away and I think I could easily communicate with ASL. With english you would be shouting so loud at that point... And I guess nobody has ever approached you and said "excuse me where is the bathroom?" or "where can I find an Arby's"? I give people directions all the time and I dont happen to carry around a map of the city. And being woken up at 4 AM by construction outside your window would be a disadvantage of hearing. Being less observant would be a disadvantage of hearing. Having less sensitivity to visual communication would be a DISADVANTAGE that you are in versus a deaf person. Everything has its disadvantages.

Did you skip over what I have said thus far? If anything, trying to force a cochlear on a deaf child is MORE likely to create these problems. It is very difficult to learn to use the device, and having it implanted in a baby is not any easier to use. The fact of the matter is that most children who are implanted and forced to attempt to learn spoken English NEVER FULLY LEARN A LANGUAGE. It is too difficult and unnatural for them and implanted children will often times grow into illiterate adults. If you let your deaf baby just learn ASL he can start learning it as young as 6 months, and end up having greater cognitive ability than one who is forced to speak English as his primary language. This paragraph is just filled with too many incorrect, ignorant, and upsetting flaws, to even comment any further. I suggest you read a book written by a deaf person who underwent this trauma and maybe you will understand why it is unfair to expect a deaf person to attempt to live a hearing life. As far as "Would I fix deafness if there was a perfect fix for it?" I really dont know. Thats like saying "If you could make everyone in the world the same, would you?" I just dont think I can answer that question. I probably wouldn't. I dont think theres a way we can define one type of life as any more "perfect" than another type of life. I mean what would be next, get rid of short people?

And as I stated, there are situations where having "deaf eyes" could save YOUR life, but your senses are too accustomed to rely on your hearing. There are other situations such as places of intense noise where a deaf person would be able to react clearly, but a hearing person would be in pain due to the loud noise. What does choice have to do with anything? You still lack the ability. Also there are things you could not make the choice of. No matter what you want, you cant be as tall as Shaquille o'neil. I think there are some situations where his size could save his life. So are you disabled in your height? This just shows how little you know about sign language. First of all ASL works just fine at a distance...Secondly the Deaf have special phones that convert incoming speech to text and outgoing text to speech. Thirdly, it is true that you can communicate without eye contact with speech, but with ASL you can communicate through windows, and across rooms without getting the attention of everyone. You can also communicate at rock concerts, on airplanes, at race tracks, without having to injure your vocal chords. Also, ASL is a visual language and has many advantages in that department. Imagine explaining this picture to someone, by using only spoken or written english It would take a very long time to write that down in words. With ASL, you can use visual components of the language to create an exact idea of what you want the person to see. After learning ASL, there have been many cases where I go to give directions to somebody and think "This would be so much easier if I could use sign language..." There are a very strict set of guidelines you would use to describe that picture in ASL and it would take less than 50% of the time, and be a lot more clear. Sounds like the type of thing Hitler would say about the blacks and the jews. These people live differently and therefore are at a disadvantage.

It is a disadvantage in the social sense since most people construct the world for people who can hear. If 90% of the world was deaf, they would not be at a disadvantage. This is what things like interpreters can help people be on even playing field in the social realm. But what I am saying is that it is not advantageous to hear vs not hear. Like I said, the other senses of the Deaf are going to be stronger than yours, so are you disadvantaged too? Are you then disabled? There is a social disadvantage due to acessibility issues. There is not a clear "hearing is better than not hearing" advantage. Verbal communication is not "better" than sign communication. It is better in the sense that more people use verbal skills, but it is an arbitrary decision of society. This gives way to the dual meaning of "disability". There is the legal sense that means people dont have the ability to acess what is available in the world. But there is also the personal sense where people think that a life with sound is better than a life without sounds. The first meaning of disability is acceptable, but the second meaning is what people take offense to.

Deaf people dont do things that are made for hearing-only people. Yes and you are saying they are disabled because they are at a disadvantage. That is it more advantageous to hear than to not hear. We have disabilty legislation in place because most people can hear and a lot of things are designed by hearing people for hearing people. We want to make the world acessible to those who cannot hear. It is different to say that deafness is bad, inferior, or a disadvantage. Disability accomodation is for people who are different, not people who are inferior.

And there exists a culture where they dont try to hear, dont need to hear, and do nothing where sound is important. Deaf people dont sit around with earphones on their head and say COME ON COME ON COME ON. They just do things that dont require hearing...Just like you dont try to play basketball, deaf people dont force themselves to behave like hearing people. I dont understand the point of asking me this. This is a question that proves my point. I dont train for this because there is no logical reason that someone should live their life one way instead of another. It is personal choice. The point I am making is that there is no reason it is "right" to get a cochlear. Just like it is not right or wrong to do anything with your life. We are all missing on things. Not everyone has the genetic potential to do anything in life, and not everyone even wants to do it. Just because they cannot learn to use sound doesn't necessarily mean that they all wish they could. Just like you cannot be in the NBA and you may or may not wish that you could.

And you likely do not have the genetics to become a professional basketball player, therefore you are disadvantaged in life. It has been proven that people lacking one sense will have stronger senses in other departments. There are definitely some situations where Deaf people will beat you in their visual sense and this could potentially save their life over yours. Also if a 400 pound rock falls on my dad, he could bench press it off and save his life due to his physical strength. Therefore you are disabled and need to train your strength incase you have to save your life. I trained in martial arts for 10 years of my life and have actually faught off a mugger with my abilities. You dont have these abilities and therefore in order to be fully prepared to save your life, you need to know martial arts. Damn thats a lot of stuff you better start training...strength, speed, martial arts, vertical jump...all of these could be life saving, how many do you choose to train?

Watching muted movies doesnt appeal to me because I am a person who has learned to use his hearing. Watching movies as a deaf person is enjoyable to them because they don't have hearing and do not rely on sounds to understand concepts of what is going on on the screen. Again you seem to be imagining if you took your hearing away. You need to imagine what it would be like to simply exist in a world where sound is not important. I am sure there is something that is important to you because you have lived knowing it. You city, your family, your religion, heritage, occupation, school interest. Anything you like, you only like it because you have learned to like it. Also, ASL poetry is as important to a Deaf person as watching a sound movie is to you. You seem to think that just because sound is important to you in a movie, therefore it is necessary for everyone. Well, ASL poetry is important to thousands of people, I guess it must be necessary for everyone too so you better start learning.

And where are you getting this "larger difference" from? Do you have experience working with the deaf? Have you read ANY autobiographies of a deaf person? Or are you simply taking your life, removing your hearing, and trying to live the same life? The key point here is, as you said, "difference" in lifestyle. You life WILL be different if you are living as a deaf person. But it is not worse. There is no reason that it is a condition that should be "fixed" for everybody. There is nothing wrong about it. It is just a different life, and there are plenty of Deaf who are as happy or happier than you are. And for the strength topic: you say that your level of strength does not affect you life. Well, I am sure an olympic weightlifter would not be happy with your level of strength. Because he takes pleasure in lifting weights. But he does not look at you like you are some kind of idiot for not being stronger, he knows that this is just what he chooses to do with his life. I am sure you wouldn't like it if he tried to tell you that the human body is supposed to lift 300 pounds over its head. Similarly, most Deaf would not like it if you tell them that the human body is supposed to hear and that hearing is "correct" And a Deaf person would tell you that the ability to sign is important. Also your second paragraph is completely incorrect. I have had conversations with Deaf who say they would not choose to hear if they were given the chance, or that they wish they were born hearing. I have also talked to Deaf who hate their deafness. Neither group is wrong or right, theyre just living the way they see is good.

Buddhism doesnt appeal to you? But what is the disadvantage? Clearly everything that you choose not to do, or everything you dont like, must have a disadvantage. There are plenty of Deaf people who want to be deaf, have the cochlear available, have hearing aids available, and choose deafness. Somehow I think thats telling! Oh crap, we have two "telling" situations now. Looks like its just a matter of choice. NEITHER IS BETTER I dont watch movies muted with subtitles because I dont want to. It doesnt appeal to me. That is not direct proof that for every individual on this earth, they must watch movies with sound in order to enjoy it. Not everyone enjoys sound more, just like you dont enjoy Buddhism more.

I'd agree with you on the tallness, strength, and speed, but I'd ask why you'd think eye ad hair color would affect anything. Well, what if we lived in a world where most people had blue eyes, and having blue eyes was designated as a "normal" part of life. Only blue eyed people could enjoy life and all us brown-eyed people were outcast into the lower class. Its not really any different than hearing. We have just developed in such a way that hearing is seen as an "important" part of life. Its no more important than eye color, car color, hand size, religion, race, choice of occupation, etc. Its just a different way of living.

And you are missing out on ASL videos, poems, etc. Therefore you are disabled because you are signing-impaired. Also, deaf people are missing out on a world of sound, but you are missing out on a world of silence. A deaf person cannot appreciate sound, and you cannot appreciate the lack of sound. You are missing out on plenty of good things about being deaf because you dont know what you are missing. "If there really was no disadvantage to it, why don't you do it?" Theres no disadvantage to learning the piano, why dont you do it? Theres no disadvantage to eating a vegan diet vs a meat diet, why dont you do it? Theres no disadvantage to being a buddhist, why dont you do it? Theres no disadvantage to having a blue car, why dont you paint your car? I am allowed to like different things, and people can like a world without sound.

I don't watch my movies with subtitles, because for me the movie is more enjoyable with audio. But this is FOR ME. Movies are not more enjoyable for everyone simply because they have audio. It is absolutely rude for you to think that you enjoy movies more than a deaf person just because you can hear them. You are not imagining yourself as a deaf person. You are imagining yourself as a hearing person who no longer hears. To a person who is deaf, he is not necessarily "missing" hearing. He knows a world where hearing does not exist. He does not necessarily percieve himself as lacking anything. You only see sound as important because you have learned to depend on it, and thus see it as vital. A person living in a world without sound can exist perfectly fine without it. What if I told you that your body was flawed because you are not tall enough? Or strong enough? Or fast enough? What if I told you that blue eyes and blond hair are the most perfect form of the human body and therefore everyone else is "flawed"? There is no reason that hearing is an absolute good and deafness is an absolute evil. And YES, many people do want to be deaf. Many deaf people have told me they would refuse hearing abilities if they were offered it. (But many did say that they would want to hear, and many others would say they would like to be able to try it out if they didnt have to make it permanent) The point is that being able to hear is not an absolute good that everybody needs in order to enjoy their life to the max. There is no reason to implant a young child. An adult who gets the implant will have the same ability to learn it as a young child. But, if you implant a young child, there is a chance they will not be able to learn it properly and will not develop language during the golden window of opportunity for language aquisation. If you have a deaf child you need to teach him sign language because it will come extremely naturally and allow him full cognitive development.

No, deafness is not always a flaw to those who have it...Their quality of life is not any worse than yours. This topic is just really starting to frustrate me. I mean have any of you even spent time with the blind, paralyzed, deaf...etc..? Saying that "disabled" is the proper term to use because its the classic way to describe them is like saying you should refuse to use the term African American. Or even the N word. I mean all racial slurrs were once a socially correct word to use...It is the same thing with people who have disabilities. Many people of certain ethnicities might not have a problem if you call them black, oriental, N word, S word...But many people prefer the more proper terms. The same thing applies to Deaf. Some will say they have a condition that disables them, but some will take offense if you call them a disabled person. I'm sorry, its just how it is. You can't really argue with this, people. I have the experience in dealing with these sometimes sensitive issues and you can't really argue with someone who says they are offended by being called disabled. You can't tell him he is wrong to be offended. If you want to put an end to your ignorance then I encourage you to spend some time with people with disabilities or read a book on Deaf culture or something of that nature. Or go to a site like alldeaf.com and read some threads about Deaf concerns.

Mine is formed from regular interaction and befriending of "disabled" people over the past 3 years of learning ASL and working at the disability office. Many of them take offense to the idea of being called a "disabled person". They will say "Yes, I have a condition" or "Yes I HAVE a disability, but I am NOT a disabled person". They do not want to be defined as being inferior. How many "disabled" people do you know? Which is why I said that there is an acceptable legal sense of defining a condition as a disability so that we can provide people appropriate legal rights if need be. And again, the goal is to provide for people. The main topic of the thread has been lost. We are talking about putting an irreversible implant in a person who is too young to decide if they want it. Cochlear implantation is not accomodation for a disability. It is trying to FIX a person and make them be socially "normal"

My definition for disability would be "A condition that a person has that he or she feels interferes with the life that they want to live." I think that someone who gets his hand blown off can be called disabled if he lets it disable him. But I think a blind/deaf/paralyzed person can choose to live their life as not seeing their condition as a disability. You can't say that deaf people are disabled because they have to use captions instead of listening to a movie. There is nothing better or worse about listening to audio or reading text. It isnt better, just different. Should a Deaf person call you disabled for not being able to understand ASL poems/plays/musicals? Hearing is not better than deafness. Walking is not better than using a wheelchair. You can embrace your life and enjoy any situation you are put in. Everything we percieve as "good" is only "good" because we have learned to percieve it that way.

Allow me to re-state what I am talking about. Theres two different ways that people view disabilities. I actually have worked in the office of Disability Resources and Services at my uni for two years, so I have some advanced sensitivity in dealing with disabled persons. Theres the legal sense of the word, and the personal sense of the word. For example, a person can be clearly labeled "disabled" or not, by law. But, he or she may or may not see their condition as something that disables them. I wouldnt argue that deafness is a disability in the legal sense. But I would say that very few deaf people see their deafness as an illness that needs to be remedied. I have also met blind people who said that their blindness is part of who they are now and they couldn't imagine life any other way. Allow me to give the thread another point to think about: acessibility versus "fixing" a person. When we build wheelchair ramps, we are making the normal world acessible to different people. You don't have to go up stairs to be a part of society, you can use the ramp. But, when it comes to deafness, doing something like implanting small children with a cochlear (or screaming at them and forcing them to lip read) is NOT making the world acessible to them. It is trying to force them to be normal, to "fix" their problem. It would be like taking a person in a wheelchair and building a set of inefficient, hard-to-use, clumsy robotic legs. That way, the person could walk around, and use stairs sort of like a normal person. With all disabilities, we change our world to accomodate the needs of the disabled person. Except for deafness, that is. For some reason we think that spoken communication is the only way of life. It isn't. Signed language is just as good, if not better. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of things like Closed Caption TV (which btw CC is still not available in movie theaters) but honestly we have made HUGE progress in wheelchair accessibility and very little progress in deaf acessibility

Sea-man please. That game was years ahead of its time.

I'm told that there is no mathematical difference between going faster than light, going back in time, or being an antiparticle. One way to look at this is converstion of time-momentum (made-up term). Whenever a particle is created from pure energy, the corresponding antiparticle is also created. This sums to zero charge, spin etc. being added to the universe, but the movement in time also sums to zero. Then the Higgs-mechanism comes in, and I can't tell you how that works exactly. Could anyone explain that one? Explain what? The entire conceptualization of the Higgs theory? Perhaps you should go buy some textbooks because you have no way of even having the slightest idea of what the Higgs theory is all about unless you happen to have studied particle physics for a few years.

you get to park in handicap parking here, if you're deaf, or have a deaf person in the family: that's sign of what is legally termed a "disability" here at least. would you say blindness isn't a disability either?` I don't know enough about cochlear implants to comment on how they should be used, but marginalizing or normalizing those with disabilities is a disservice to them, and to the loved ones giving them the extra care they need. I'm not advocating victimization, on the other end of the spectrum: deafness is definitely one of the disabilities that reduce your quality of life the least. I have met and conversed with probably around 200 deaf people using ASL. Some had cochlear implants that they enjoyed, some had cochlear implants that they hated, some were hard of hearing, some used hearing aids, some were completely deaf. None of them resented their deafness or considered themselves handicapped. The only reason there is any "disability" is just because hearing people see no need to learn sign language. How many deaf have you talked to? All of the ones I have come in contact with would be insulted if you said their quality of life was lower than our quality of life. Hell, I might go as far to say that the Deaf culture quality of life is BETTER than hearing culture. Deaf culture is very friendly, welcoming, and accepting. They are open to everybody's ideas and have some of the most wonderful conversations about things. Deafness is more of a race/ethnicity than a disability. Calling Deaf disabled is like calling white people disabled because we cant jump as high. Or calling black people disabled because their skin is a different color. Please either take my word for it, or go learn ASL yourself. Or even read one of the books I talked about above. (The best one is probably "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh) It is a short and inexpensive read, too. Maybe then, youll see that your opinion has been formed by nothing but hearing the audist side of the story (this is what Deaf people call the opression they face from hearing people, like "racism" but "audism" instead)

3 or 4

Dentists don't drill a hole into the skull of a child that is like 1 year old to destroy any natural tissue that may have some functionality and replace it with machinery that may or may not allow them to be part of hearing culture.