Myweponsg00d

What the hell are you saying? If you say "I love scary movies" and then say "This movie is too scary" how the hell can I trust your opinion on anything? Its just irrationality.

Slayer can exist, and pretty much existed without a point system. You don't trade points for abyssal whips and granite mauls either; the abyssal demon and gargoyles drop them. 10 bucks to whoever can guess which monster drops which item. :rolleyes: If Dungeoneering can get rid of the token system, such that I loot/obtain/earn my rewards off opening difficult rooms, passing complex puzzles, defeating and looting boss monsters, then I won't have THAT much to say about it. If non-overpowering resources such as potions, fish, summoning pouches that fills a certain gap in their respective skill can be brought out of the dungeon in limited quantity per trip(or even become tradeable), such that I contribute to other skills as a Dungeoneer, even better. You completely avoided the part of the statement that degrades your opinion. Slayer's point system: do you like it or not? Because general consensus seems to say that slayer after Smoking kills is much more enjoyable than it was before. If a point reward system can make one skill more enjoyable, why can another skill not have a point system?

I'll bet my bank on <5

But you havent. You have just stated things (which are illogical) and pretended that they verify your opinion. They dont though.

There is a difference between you voicing your opinion on something, and you trying to present your opinion like it is a fact. You don't like the skill. Probably because you dont like anything, and you dont actually enjoy the game. But. Theres a difference. You try to convice people that this skill is, logically, flawed. There is simply no logical reason that this skill shouldn't be a part of this game. You just DONT LIKE IT. And you need to stop pretending like it is a fact that this skill is bad. It is no less of a skill than any other skill in the game.

First of all, you have officially undermined your own argument. You start by saying there is nothing new about this skill. Then your main complaint is that the reward system is so unlike "a skill". So we get a new skill in which you think the reward system is different (which you think is a bad thing) but then you say this skill has nothing new to offer (which is a contradiction since you just said the thing you dont like about it is that it isnt like other skills) I simply do not understand what you are getting at here. Dungeoneering has rewards that you get at various levels. Again, just proving yourself wrong with contradictory claims. You say that Dung isnt a skill because all it does is provide optional enhancements. Then you go on to say that skills enhance your abilities. Lets compare Dung to Agility then? Do you harvest items in agility? No. Does having agility enhance your abilities? Yes. Having a higher agility level allows you to use obstacles that make your life easier. Having a Dung level allows you to use items that make your life easier. Is agility required on tons of non-obstacle non-course things in runescape? Yes. But does agility make use of other skills? No. Dungeoneering levels might not be required in various parts of the game, but Dungeoneering has these other skills implemented inside of it. Why is one thing better than the other? Different skills are different. But really. You complain that the skill is too different from other skills, but also you complain that it is not a fresh idea. You complain that it is not a skill, yet you say that some skills are meant to help you, and not every skill will DIRECTLY produce a raw material to use in RS. Perhaps you should more clearly re-evaluate your logic before posting again. And further I fail to see the difference between the way the Dung items come into the game VS the way you obtain rewards in other skills. Would you rather we get a very rare chance at one of the rewards each time we finish a dungeon? Whats the point in that? Now we get to choose the rewards that we want from the skill instead of getting random items dropped. Also: slayer points. Just saying, this isnt the only skill where you get a consistent "point" reward. What IS your Dung level?

This is a stupid argument. We just got Kuradels dungeon, where you can ONLY go if you are training slayer. Kuradels dungeon is isolated from the world. And guess what, people love that dungeon, and want to see more places like it where you can only slay the beasts if you are doing slayer. So the players want the skill to be more like that. When we recieve Kuradels dungeon so well, how can we tell them that we want the new skill to be on the opposite track?

If that's all you require for something to be considered a skill, then I guess Dungeoneering qualifies. So do Barbarian Assault, Stealing Creation and Fist of Guthix. And half the quests too. It's nice to have low standards. What qualifies Construction to be a skill? Your POH is an isolated world. It has the following effects on the game: Tele tabs Portals Guilded altar A bank designed for your costumes A bank for your pets Where is this long list of construction benefits? It seems Dung already has more benefits than a skill that was added a long time ago.

I'm not making an argument that Dung is very unlike a mini game. I am making the argument that many skills are, in many respects, not very different from a mini game.

Herblore. Combat. Cooking. Crafting. Are you serious? Yes, every minigame has a list of rewards you get by turning in tokens for things you do in a pocket world. Very much the point. In those skills you mentioned, you are not using the skill itself, you are using the item. The items from Farming are used in other areas, just like the items from Dung are used outside of Dung. And if we obtain the Dung rewards from tokens, so what? Its still a product of something they call a skill. I could say that seeds are a token that you turn in for Farming crops.

Bonegrinder offers nothing to prayer Gem bag and coal bag offer nothing to mining. Law and nature staves offer nothing to magic. The farming scroll offers nothing to farming Tome of frost offers nothing to magic Anti poison totem offers nothing to combat And all of the rest of the combat weapons and armor have no bearing on gameplay outside of the dungeon. But in reality, all of these items are ONLY useful outside of the dungeon. Your argument is just a blatant lie. All of these rewards are going to affect the world outside of dungeoneering. You are just looking at facts and dismissing them. Why? Because they're items, not the skill. Only the rewards from the skill offer anything outside of it. The skill itself offers *nothing* outside of itself. That was my point. As well as a skill this size should have more of those reward items at least. So what can you do with Slayer aside from obtain items? What can you do with hunter except to kill things and obtain their items? If the Dung rewards were obtained from a monster drop instead of bought from a store, would you stop illogically complaining? Becuase most skills have nothing to offer except for the items that you harvest from them. Farming has no effect on runescape except for the items that you farm.

Bonegrinder offers nothing to prayer Gem bag and coal bag offer nothing to mining. Law and nature staves offer nothing to magic. The farming scroll offers nothing to farming Tome of frost offers nothing to magic Anti poison totem offers nothing to combat And all of the rest of the combat weapons and armor have no bearing on gameplay outside of the dungeon. But in reality, all of these items are ONLY useful outside of the dungeon. Your argument is just a blatant lie. All of these rewards are going to affect the world outside of dungeoneering. You are just looking at facts and dismissing them. Why?

I dont think that a short-sight on the cost of the rewards, or perhaps a miscalculation, has anything to do with the actual skill itself. This is a problem with the design of how rewards are obtained, and I am not disagreeing with anyone who would say "Yeah this game is fun, but frankly, the token collection just doesnt make any sense"

This couldn't be more true. LOL. We get a skill that we can actually play and interact with, instead of sit there and do a job that could be done by one of those birds that bobs up and down, and people think that this is MORE boring. Please make this skill less boring! All the other skills are so much more exciting when I just sit in the bank and turn tons of logs into fire! Or when I sit still at a fishing spot by myself and catch 1000s of the same fish and then throw them in my bank! These things are clearly more exciting! The people complaining don't play Runescape to actually enjoy the game. They want a new skill to be something that they can mindlessly level up so they can play the game of "Whose is bigger?" You made some valid points earlier, but now you've gone overboard. While what you say may be true in many cases, there *are* valid reasons why some people don't like this skill, and even why they don't consider it to be a skill. *cut* And don't even get me started on the gameplay balance issues. There's no excuse whatsoever for an item that has a nominal level of 21 that can't be unlocked until level 74. I disagree wholeheartedly. There is nothing that says a skill needs to become part of the RS world. But this skill is not an isolation from the RS world, though. Even though we dont use Dungeoneering outside of its island, we get the opposite effect. All of your training in other skills pays of for this skill. Also your new point is also silly. The skill is not integrated into the game? Lets look at some examples. When you are doing any skill aside from slayer, where does your slayer level mean anything? Is slayer therefore a bad skill also? Slayer is not a part of the RS world any more than dungeoneering. At least Dungeoneering uses all your other skills. Slayer just uses combat. You gain some benefits from having other skills, like the ability to use shortcuts, and overloads, etc. But none of it is really a part of the skill. Where do I use Hunter aside from when I am training hunter? To train hunter or benefit from hunter, you go to hunter specific zones and use the skill. Where do I use farming aside from when I am farming in farming patches? You must have missed the part where there is a list of 20 rewards you can use outside of the game. How is this nothing? How is SOMETHING nothing?

This couldn't be more true. LOL. We get a skill that we can actually play and interact with, instead of sit there and do a job that could be done by one of those birds that bobs up and down, and people think that this is MORE boring. Please make this skill less boring! All the other skills are so much more exciting when I just sit in the bank and turn tons of logs into fire! Or when I sit still at a fishing spot by myself and catch 1000s of the same fish and then throw them in my bank! These things are clearly more exciting! The people complaining don't play Runescape to actually enjoy the game. They want a new skill to be something that they can mindlessly level up so they can play the game of "Whose is bigger?"

Its like trying to argue with a creationist. You can show them all the fossils in the world and present them with cold-hard facts, but they don't want to see it so they just deny the existence. I am a critic of Jagex. Pretty hard core. Since the trade updates, the game content updates have been far worse than in the years prior. There are a lot of people in this thread who I thought were similar to me, wanting to see some new, interesting, high level challenging content added to the game. But now I see that they are just unable to be pleased. In the past two years I have been overtly critical of many things Jagex has done and I feel that they let their game get very dry. I think that Dungeoneering is the best update to come in the past 3 years, and has delivered us exactly the right type of update that so many people have been asking for. I really am just shocked at how many people are displeased for no reason. Perhaps they just plain don't like Runescape any more, in which case they should just stop playing the game instead of confusing Jagex by always telling them that they want the opposite of what updates they are making. The Dungeoneering skill is in the spirit of everything this game has ever hoped to be about. Making friends, working together, solving unique challenges, and using your culmination of skills to overcome these challenges. You can play solo

Can someone answer these questions? I feel like I haven't been answered because you guys realise that your complaints against this skill are completely illogical. This is no less of a skill than slayer. In fact, I see many similarities between it and slayer, in terms of the way the skill works and how you get exp and rewards. Slayer is probably the most popular skill, with a majority of the population in love with it, and also the exp is quite slow and nobody complains about it. Then Jagex releases a skill that is similar to slayer, but more complex and involving, and you guys complain. The way I see it, you being given a random dungeon is exactly parallel to you being given a random task of monsters to kill. You complete the challenge, get exp, and move on to the next random chellenge.

Can somebody actually freakin explain something to me: What is the problem with "rewards"? Wtf? Really? Just because they are CALLED rewards? Its still something you gain from your efforts that you put into the skill over a period of time. Compare it to slayer. With slayer all you get to do is kill bigger monsters and use better slayer-specific equipment. At least in Dungeoneering you will have to actually DO the skill to use the items. Not like Slayer where anyone can just buy a whip even if they have level 1 slayer. I fail to see how the benefits of this skill are any different from any other skill.

You can use the anti-poison totem to avoid being poisoned in combat, you can use the tome of frost for magic, you can use the Bonecrusher to get extra exp from prayer that you would have otherwise left on the ground, you can use the Coal Bag for...well...okay, I am not really sure how that works? But it sounds like it could be good for mining or smelting. What is the difference? In hunter, you go to the hunter area, gather hunter items, and use them outside of hunter. In Dungeoneering you go to the Dungeoneering area, train the skill, then use your rewards outside of the dungeon. There is no difference. BTW am I the only one who is so excited at the idea of future dungeoneering updates? Possibly new dungeon areas now and then? Maybe with the same items, but with different bosses and puzzles? I think this skill will be really fun when we get it a little higher.

It wont be unfeasable to make them when you get to a dungeon that is difficult enough to force you and 4 friends to make all the best stuff you can.

Where do I use Hunter aside from the self-contained rewards? Where do I use Farming aside from self-contained uses? Good point I suppose. I'd also like to add that this means we can cast ancients with a powerful staff, and then in our offhand use the Tome and still not use a million water runes.

You should probably re-think the way you voice your opinions about this skill then. When people read your posts, unless you tell them otherwise, theyre going to assume that you play the game basically the same way as everyone else. I think your original comment was just mis-percieved as illogical hate towards the update. However from looking at your skills, you really just dont do some things in this game. Now that you made it clear how you feel about the game in general, it is easier to understand your attitude toward dungeoneering.

Nah, thats like saying "If I enjoy questing I might as well play city of heroes instead of WoW just for the quests". You clearly missed the point. You can play both CoH and WoW, but if one aspect in one game is clearly better (and assuming you play both games regularly, and not just one and not even once the other), it's doubtful you'd spend much time doing the same in the other game (unless you enjoy grinding). Luckily for me I've never really played other MMORPGs, so I find RuneScape pretty good, but as far as the "dungeon experience" goes - countless single players have done just that. Maybe some of you find this new skill fun, which is good for you. But for me unfortunately, I don't like it all (as of now). It just feels like another mini-game, most of which I got bored with after a few days at most. :( Yeah you make a good point. If I want to farm crops on a video game, we have Harvest Moon. Also theres plenty of fishing and hunting games that deliver a much more realistic fishing experience than RS.

I dont see it as a huge problem. The entire Rewards page refers to objects that are for use outside of Daemonheim. http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/dungeoneering_rewards The only comments I have about this are that there really aren't many rewards there. And further, the highest level reward is 80. Leveling dungeoneer past 80 will only result in benefits in the dungeon zones. If you enjoy the dungeon experience, this skill will be great for you. If you dont find genuine enjoyment in playing this skill, the rewards will take a lot of work for minimal payoff. EDIT: By the way, holy crap how did I not notice the Tome of frost till now? It gives infinite water runes. Combine this with a staff of air, and we officially have the first way to cast elemental spells and consuming nothing but mind/chaos/death/blood runes.

I agree. I think its [developmentally delayed]ed when people wear any type of clothing with the intention of associating oneself with a group. Most people I've met who dress like that are just sheep following a gothic/vampire/whatever movement for who knows what reason. They think they are tough, violent, or scary, but usually end up being scrawny pale kids. I also feel the same way about things like gang clothing (i.e. wearing tons of red cause B's up and C's down, dawg) I saw a video of a Dragonforce concert one time, and this one kid was actually so pathetic that when he put his arm up to throw up the devil horns (or whatever that hand gesture is called) he kept it up there for a few seconds and then had to actually brace his arm with his other arm because he wasnt even strong enough to hold up his own appendage. Nothing says hardcore like being unable to even hold your hand in the air. :rolleyes: But I guess if you just like the way it looks, I cant really argue with that.