muggiwhplar

Au contraire: With special emphasis on the second sentence in the definition. Dude the sentence right after that one literally says cheating is subjective lol

That's fair enough. Though I think the game's been under "volatile status" for a very long time now haha

Cheating is subjective. However, since it is subjective, the consequences/repercussions of "cheating" are therefore subjective as well (in addition to what constitutes "cheating" in the first place). In other words, as far as Jagex is concerned, they are not cheating. I don't consider them to be cheaters either, however my opinion is irrelevant here :P

Yep. Jagex makes insane decisions, and you get to figure out how to deal with it. That's RuneScape in a nutshell :D

They seem to want every player to get one, though, and I think they've been aiming more recent stuff at comp capers recently than the rest of the community. I know I'd be a lot happier with the game if they didn't keep shoving a cape I have no interest in down my throat. Believe me, I've tried to completely excise it from my mind. The problem is that I'm a Tip.Iter, where everyone else is a comp caper who talks about comp caper things :-P There are also a lot of things happening in my life that I'm completely furious about, so I'm sorry about flying off the handle. While I no longer play RS3 (or even OSRS really), keep in mind that I've never had more than 200M in my bank and I've never owned any T90 equipment. In other words, I am (was) at that point in my RS career where my only option left was to grind PvM bosses which I don't enjoy fighting for hours and hours in order to afford better gear, such that I may continue to grind PvM bosses which I don't enjoy for hours and hours to pay for level 99 in skills which I don't enjoy training, to complete part of the requirements for a cape that I have no interest in, such that I may wait around for Jagex to churn out more bosses I don't want to fight and more minigames with arbitrary, time-consuming requirements I don't want to fulfill in order to hold on to the cape that I never wanted in the first place. In other words, there's a reason why I quit playing RS3 and never looked back. I don't understand why you're still playing when you and I appear to be in the same boat.

This requirement will not affect me. I have already beaten every single boss in the game (and I regularly do RoTS/Rago), and if or when this requirement comes out, if Jagex recognizes all the kills I have done, I will already have it, or I will organize my team, and get it within 1-2 hours at most (which is nothing). The day a requirement comes that I can no longer do for comp or no longer want to do for comp, I will simply abstain from it, and life will go on. (I originally boycotted comp for 6 months because I thought Livid was [bleep]ing stupid.) I reject this requirement simply because of the other externalities it will have on the community. Do a lot of them go back to entitlement issues? Sure. But the community is entitled, and there will a lot of butthurt, animosity, drama and division if comp skillers have to do this. I don't see much benefit coming out of that. Yes but I remember very clearly back before you had 99 in every skill, we were talking about how much you hated training certain skills to 99 yet you still did so out of obligation. That's where you and I differ. I only train stats if they're a necessary evil in order to reach a bigger goal which will make me happier (e.g. training certain skills in OSRS to their minimal level required for a quest in order to get barrows gloves so I can go do PvP). Sorry but I have my doubts about your claim that you will abstain from participating in activities which you do not enjoy :P The community will get butthurt over any updates Jagex makes to the comp cape. The community will also get butthurt over any lack of updates to the comp cape. It's just something you have to accept (and ignore). A wise man will make the woes of the RS community irrelevant to his own personal enjoyment of the game :D

I think a lot of this would largely become a non-issue if people didn't feel obligated/entitled to a comp cape to begin with. It's meant to be outrageously "difficult" and time-consuming to obtain. You guys' arguments seem to ultimately claim that the comp cape is too difficult to obtain, as if EVERY player should be capable of obtaining one, rather than an extremely tiny elite minority. I think you guys would be a lot happier if you just removed the expectation of the comp cape from your mind altogether, just like I did when it was originally announced. Spend hundreds of hours doing things I don't enjoy for a lousy cape that nobody besides me gives a shit about? Yeah no thanks, I'll pass on that one :P

It's unfair, yeah. But it also makes sense. Especially in the long-run. The comp cape was added because people needed something to strive for when they felt like they'd already done everything in the game. Now they're upset that they keep having things to do to hold on to their cape :P

I did start as a mid-level PvMer around the same time (And I still do "lower"-level PvM fairly regularly: have to get drygores for the stronger stuff somehow), and I really don't really see how maging Rex or soloing the GWD bosses prepares me for something like Nex, let alone Vorago. It's not insurmountable, and I'm not arguing that. It's just wildly different from everything else on the requirement. That's the point I'm trying to make. Is it so hard to say that without people assuming I want to dumb down the game?! The Fight Kiln, Tormented Demons, the QBD, and the Kalphite King require "strategy" and "mechanics," just as the top tier bosses do, albeit to a lesser degree. Given the existence of bosses like that, I don't think you have a very strong point, as those bosses do a good job of initiating the transition from very basic bosses like GWD and DKs to the top-tier bosses.

Obtaining a completionist cape is also a very high level and elite activity that only a very few people engage in. That vote was polled by EVERY RS PLAYER, not just PvM'ers and not just completionists. Therefore, those statistics are irrelevant to the issue, unless every player who voted in that poll intends to obtain a completionist cape. Even then, a player's opinion is irrelevant to what is and what is not considered a completionist requirement. This issue only affects a very small minority of the playerbase. Out of the hundreds of thousands of RS players out there, how many of them have completionist capes? Of the players with completionist capes, how many of them are "completely incapable" of ever killing every RS boss, even with hours and hours of practice? Do you see my point yet? >_> The poll is not terribly relevant, but it does reflect what everyone knows to be the case. Most of the players are oriented towards skilling. There's dozen and dozens of Comp (and some Trim) players who don't do PVM at all. They probably could learn given the time, and effort. But the community is by and large a skilling one (even at the high end levels). The comp cape has until recently reflected that (the bulk of the requirements were skills, quests, and certain minigames, and diary requirements). There's nothing wrong with gearing it more towards PVM, but this isn't going to accomplish that. I don't see much point in changing the cape now or redefining it (which is what this requirement is). Also, on a minor note, just as with the Warmonger title, I'd like this title to be somewhat unique and optional (i.e. those of us who like titles or the activities associated with particular titles get them to show our affinity with it because we actually enjoy the content, such as myself). I got the Warmonger title, and the Daemonheim title, not because I was ever going to trim, but because I like DG and that particular title. Similarly, as a PVMer, I will easily get the Reaper title (the reward for killing all bosses once) regardless of whether it is a completionist requirement or not, because I like that sort of stuff. Let people like me get it if we want, and leave the skillers to do whatever they're doing. Yes, but the completionist cape is not meant to include only the activities that most people spend their time doing (or even ENJOY spending their time doing). It's meant to include what seems to reasonably represent the sum of all of RS' core activities and goals. If we were to follow your logic, then we should remove anything from the completionist requirements that most people don't enjoy doing such as Livid Farm while we're at it.

I'm probably going to be falling completely into appeal-to-tradition territory with this, but no, it's not silly because they've spent the last three years putting boss requirements into the trimmed cape rather than the regular one. I honestly don't see a reason for them to completely redefine what it means to be an elite player now, when boss hunting is something you can really only do at the end. That's the thing here: it's a massive departure from the game's normal progression, requiring a completely different skill set that you're not really given a chance to hone until the end of the game. It'd be like giving me a slow-paced strategy game where the last 10 minutes are a FPS. You can start PvM as a mid-level player and work your way up from there. There's so many bosses now, and not all of them are exclusive to high level players. And like I said earlier, by the point that you have all the other comp requirements fulfilled, it's not like killing the high level bosses is some sort of insurmountable obstacle suddenly shoved upon you >_> Edit: Yeah Yuj and SM already addressed my points.

That's the precisely the sort of thing that should be avoided, people paying money to leech content. Otherwise, you may as well add a "complete PVM requirement, or pay 50M instead" requirement to the cape instead. (Back in the day, when Monkey Madness came out, you could either do the puzzle or pay 200K to an NPC or something, not sure if that still exists). May as well counter some inflation as well (one of Jagex's priorities, according to them). Then just add a "most damage dealt" or "most damage taken" requirement in addition to contributing to a kill or something.

Obtaining a completionist cape is also a very high level and elite activity that only a very few people engage in. That vote was polled by EVERY RS PLAYER, not just PvM'ers and not just completionists. Therefore, those statistics are irrelevant to the issue, unless every player who voted in that poll intends to obtain a completionist cape. Even then, a player's opinion is irrelevant to what is and what is not considered a completionist requirement. This issue only affects a very small minority of the playerbase. Out of the hundreds of thousands of RS players out there, how many of them have completionist capes? Of the players with completionist capes, how many of them are "completely incapable" of ever killing every RS boss, even with hours and hours of practice? Do you see my point yet? >_>

Then what's the point of having a trimmed completionist cape? It's not about catering to anyone, it's about clearly defining what their official endgame is and what it isn't, and changing that definition at the drop of the hat because... why, exactly? I'm sick to death of them moving the goal posts because someone who's been playing for 13 years wants to feel special. I'm probably wrong but your argument sounds like this. Don't you think it's silly to call something a "completionist" cape if something so central to RS as PvM is omitted from the requirements? But it's not a literal title/name. Otherwise there are mounds and mounds and mounds of things that are not requirements but should be if we go by a literal definition. Everything must have limits, so the question becomes what should those limits me? It's not prima facie absurd to suggest to leave certain things out of it, such as certain PVM things. I am a highly PVM oriented player, and even I recognize that Runescape is more and more a skiller's game (that's also where the community is oriented towards). Like I said, PvM has become such a prominent part of the game that it doesn't really make sense to omit it from the requirements. Excluding PvM is like excluding minigames. Additionally, there's a difference between "Fight Vorago," "Kill Vorago," "Receive a seismic wand from Vorago," and "Receive every possible drop from Vorago." Players should at the very least be required to kill every boss at least once for a basic completionist cape.

Then what's the point of having a trimmed completionist cape? It's not about catering to anyone, it's about clearly defining what their official endgame is and what it isn't, and changing that definition at the drop of the hat because... why, exactly? I'm sick to death of them moving the goal posts because someone who's been playing for 13 years wants to feel special. I'm probably wrong but your argument sounds like this. Don't you think it's silly to call something a "completionist" cape if something so central to RS as PvM is omitted from the requirements?

Yes you always have the right to complain. Just like you always have the right to develop yourself such that you no longer have anything to complain about :P

That's another point... How exactly can you call yourself a "completionist" if you haven't even killed every boss >_> Of all the things in RS that could be scrapped or nerfed in order to cater to the "less fortunate" players, the completionist cape should be the last on the list to be dumbed-down. What's the point of having a completionist cape if we're just going to follow the "everyone's a winner!" mentality?

Also: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/15tz93/here_are_a_few_reflexereaction_games_to_improve/

Ok, then if bosses shouldn't be made easier, then what's the issue here? It was implied; that's just what I inferred from your posts. Like I said, unless you have a learning disability, which is a rare enough condition not to be worth addressing, then that's simply not true. The bosses in RS are simple enough that even the least skilled of players can eventually become decent at PvM. Anybody who's outraged enough by something like this can choose to channel that outrage into practice and skill, or they can just feel sorry for themselves and ultimately go nowhere. Why not just remove the bosses altogether then? It's unfair that certain people cannot access top PvM moneymaking methods, going by your train of thought. Jagex defines what is and what isn't "optional content," not you.

Like I said, you'd have a point if we were playing a game like LoL. But this is RuneScape. There's no excuse for not being able to participate in PvM. Just because it takes you 100 attempts to get a fire cape when other people get it on their 1st attempt doesn't mean that you should make the fight caves easier.

That's not true at all. Unless you have some sort of learning disability (which is rare enough not to be a relevant argument), you can become an expert at anything that doesn't require physical athleticism within about 6-12 months. We live in the information age. Libraries are free and you can Google pretty much any topic you wish to learn more about. "I don't know how to..." is not a valid excuse for being bad at something anymore. In the case of something as simple as RS, you could easily become a world-class PvM master less than a month if you put in the time and effort. It's not like League of Legends where in order to be the best of the best, you have to spend dozens of hours practicing for months and months (because your opponent is another world-class human being, rather than a predictable NPC). I remember back in 2006, a close friend of mine got her fire cape after 50+ (or 100+, I can't remember) attempts. She went from 70-90 range entirely from failed fight caves attempts. Before her first attempt, she was watching my videos and said, "You expect me to be able to do that?! You can't be serious, that's impossible." Sure enough, a few months later...

Up to 31 now. I think I'll keep it that way, enough for a full month. 28. Poisoned with cyanide, frothing at the mouth, and embracing death 29. Destroyed once and for all by the spirit bomb 30. Sentenced to Hell and used as toys for Satan’s twisted sexual desires 31. Fulfilled from a very rigorous, yet healthy and productive gym workout Contemplating replacing #28 with something like "diagnosed with a terminal illness" or something similar

Yeah if you guys have anything to add to the list, feel free to do so, such that I may plagiarize your contributions without consequence :D Edit: After some Googling, it would seem that just about any song written by Cannibal Corpse will fit in nicely as well hahaha

Just for shits and giggles, I've been running an ongoing gag with my Facebook status updates after I work out. Day 1: "Just finished working out at the gym. Feels like my muscles are getting STRONGER!" Day 2: "Just finished working out at the gym. Feels like my muscles are getting PUMPED!" Day 3: ...Toned! Day 4: ...Swoll 5. Jacked 6. Yoked 7. Ripped 8. Chiseled 9. Cut 10. Shredded 11. Mutilated 12. Eviscerated 13. Disemboweled 14. Hanged, drawn, and quartered 15. Mugged, bloodied, and left for dead 16. Dissolved in acid 17. Filled with kidney stones 18. Cut surgically without anesthesia 19. Devoured by a swarm of bullet ants 20. Divorced without a prenuptial agreement 21. Reluctantly dragged to Hell and used as toys for Satan’s tormented, sexual desires Gonna start running out of ideas soon lol

if only they were looking away from the camera, they'd look just like Faith + 1