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Your absolutely, 100% wrong about how easy it is to detect bots. Java is a VERY basic code for games and undetectable scripts are easy as hell to make. Most bots are F2P, actually the vast majority are F2P.

I look down on people that brag about having untrimmed cooking capes Same goes for fletching and Firemaking.

Businesses making money OMFG! Expect Businesses to try and make money... Your paying 5$ a month and expect T1 customer support and T1 programmers is a bit far fetched.

Civilians dying in Africa in massive campaigns of genocide and America sending soldiers to Libya is Unethical. This is a minor inconvenience, deal with it. And this is coming from a MAJOR skiller. I didn't say inhumane. There are plenty of bad things that go on around the world and there's next to nothing that we can do about it. However, profitting off bots while telling the rest that botting will be punished it very much unethical business behavior. And as consumers who accepted the TOC jagex put up I think it's only fair to expect Jagex to reciprocate and keep up their end of the bargain and enforce their rules. (The TOC is not quite a contract so we can't sue on that - but bad TOC is fair game for a consumer protection agency. Unethical behavior is a behavior that is not ethical, the word ethical by webster means "1. the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation 2. a theory or system of moral values" Killing innocent people cannot be justified morally by a sane human being, I think I speak for the planet when I say that the slaughter of innocents is Unethical. The fact that Jagex cannot detect bots well does not mean that they have unethical business practices, just that their technology is a tad bit behind. Second off, cheating on an online game isn't such a new concept, learn to deal with it and at higher levels when your not skilling to make money you will actually be ok with bots existing to drop prices.

Civilians dying in Africa in massive campaigns of genocide and America sending soldiers to Libya is Unethical. This is a minor inconvenience, deal with it. And this is coming from a MAJOR skiller.

No, even if a group of players managed to get a botting programmer into court a few major things would happen to make your idea void of reason. 1. There is no law against botting, except if you really, really stretch out copyright law, but most judges would simply say that using an outside program does not violate copyright as it does not actually affect the coding of the game itself. This is not just my opinion, Jagex has taken around a half dozen programmers to court and only managed to shut down one, and the same people that Jagex had just shut down went and made another website using a new bot. 2. There is always another website filled with amateur programmers willing to pump out the latest RS bots 3. Lack of funding and organisation and adults, the rs average age probably caps out at 15-18 which makes them unable to really hire lawyers to argue a case. About the adults on RS, I seriously doubt that a person with a job, living place, and possibly a family is going to spend the hundreds of hours required to follow through with a lawsuit To respond to the "Should" part of your post. No, we shouldn't, it's a game, a video game, why does it matter enough to you or anybody else for that matter.

So cheating isn't a bad thing because it makes life easier for people that already have large sums of money? Furthermore, cut out non combat skilling and you lose half of the game and TBH most of the players, MMO games that are completely combat oriented get boring FAST. For example, Maplestory, which was not a good game but was passable, had a decent fanbase for around two months until killing things got old and now the game is completely abandoned. Botting was never my argument but I have to say something about your incredibly brilliant plan on how to kill botting. First off, many combat bots exist. Second, in your opinion (maybe not directly stated but heavily implied) you express a huge favoritism to those of the combat group. Why should skillers get the short end of the stick, why is it acceptable that items that skillers make or gather should be dirt cheap while items acquired through combat should be so expensive (relatively of course). Of course combat drops should be more expensive but to the degree that it is? The fact is that raw materials go for such a tiny amount due to botting is acceptable to you due to the fact that you are a combatter, more bots is more convenient to people such as yourself and the fact that you hold yourself above skillers is insane. Every player is equal and should be treated as such in the eyes of Jagex and the fact that skill botting is so acceptable is disgusting, if there were so many combat bots and combat drops became relatively cheap then you would not sit by quietly and say "oh well it brings the prices down so its OK", and neither would I as I believe that every player deserves equal reward for the amount of work that they put in and right now combatters get more reward then deserved and skillers get nothing compared. in my statement Misquote = taking out of context, didn't feel like writing the whole phrase down a hundred times.

Yeah, try killing monsters that drop rune armor without any weapons above mithril and full steel armor with no food, pots or familiars. That may be your opinion, but I hate training combat and love skilling, If they removed skilling then many people would quit the game including me and many other people that I know. As I said already multiple times in this thread, the line of thought I gave here was when thinking in the stance: "bots aren't bad, they give supplies which would otherwise be tiresome to get, and those who skill shouldn't expect decent money and go MHing instead". - I was giving the consequence of that mindset. You may or may not have that mindset, however IF you have you have to be consistent and also agree that those supplies (which you said bots were beneficial to the community and shouldn't be gathered by legitimate players for profit anyways) can be removed from the game and jagex could just replace those resources with a "steady supply in the ge". Then stop taking my post out of context! - I know reading post before my post can be tiresome, but if you quote please do so: I hardly post my statement out of nowhere! I never once mentioned bots in any of my posts. Second off, anything that you say can be quoted, and you DID suggest that skilling be removed, Im just letting you know that I along with many others would quit easily if skilling were to be removed. If you dont want things that can be taken in a bad way to be misquoted then dont type them in the first place, and IMO i did not even misquote you.

Yeah, try killing monsters that drop rune armor without any weapons above mithril and full steel armor with no food, pots or familiars. That may be your opinion, but I hate training combat and love skilling, If they removed skilling then many people would quit the game including me and many other people that I know. Stop trying to force your OPINION on other people and playing it off like its a commonly known fact. Self sufficiency not NPC sufficiency, way to miss one of the key elements of my argument for the third time. And of course you can pick up items as you killed the NPC as you did that YOURSELF, but buying goods from a store is not self sufficiency as you did no work to produce the item or any combat to get the drop.

Its also possible to save up a million dollars by picking up pennies, and I said that it is impossible to truly play the game by being self sufficient on combat only not impossible to level up, big difference bro. What monsters can you fight with bronze weapons haha, self sufficiency is when everything that you own comes from yourself not from any outside sources. I believe that buying from a NPC is an outside source. Try ranging monsters that can drop 100+ sara brews with a shortbow and any arrows you may find from killing monsters... good luck bro! The problem with being self sufficient on combat alone is that it is almost impossible to acquire any decent gear, were will you get a good bow and a decent arrows if your fletching level is 1 and you cant buy any items? How can you go bossing unless you have weapons and armor of a high caliber if you 1. Cant buy armor 2. Cant smith anything I guess you can go to barrows, but once again how can you go to barrows unless you AT LEAST have decent armor and weapons. Magic is maybe the only skill that you could train reasonably as there are many spawns of various types of runes across the map. And the three major combat skills, well you can train them but without food then you would have to train on EXTREMELY low level monsters until you have decent combat stats (which would take a HUGE amount of time) to go kill maybe.. ummm flesh crawlers as you have NO consistent way of acquiring food so how can you kill higher level... anything? True self sufficiency on combat restricts you to an extremely small amount of the game, which IMO is not playing at all.

Try killing cows for an hour straight, its impossible to stay awake aka its impossible. On the running argument between me and blade. -Self sufficiency is when you can get everything you need by yourself, completely. No shops, no other players... nothing. -Ok so you can kill cows for 3 months straight but thats not "Playing" the game, RS has a huge amount of gameplay and a huge map to roam about in, I hardly call it "Playing" if I had to stay in lumby for a quarter of a year -Face it, you CANNOT be self sufficient and play the game, its not possible, sure you can kill level one monsters in Lumby but is that playing the game to any degree, no. Is watching the trailer to a movie, watching the movie, no. -Sure, you can be pure combat if you include other players or low level cooking, but being SELF SUFFICIENT with just combat is impossible once you leave lumberage. Furthermore I have no idea where you got the idea that you get good cooked food drops from monsters? Sure, im not a high enough level to go bossing on anything but the mole but I know for a fact that on the common monster you get only a very small amount of food. And you cant go bossing without amazing armor and weapons which ummm, you cant get from only being reliant on combat GF

Thats not SELF SUFFICIENT smart one. way to miss a basic premise of our entire argument.

Its not though, if you want to combat then you at least need a steady supply of food which cannot be done through just combat. Therefore, it is NOT self sufficient as a pure combat person would need food sources from other players, or shops.

So you can get more food from monsters these days then from the GE? Ok so lets say that you dont buy food, but you make it, It's way faster to fish and cook then to get the occasional sea bass from a monster. i.e You can be completely self sufficient if you have good skill levels and good combat, but you cannot be self sufficient with just combat, combat needs skills to aid it and skills need combat to be useful. That the end of it... Also, if you dont like bots then go to a foreign world, its not like you need to be able to read to click on a tree and then use quick bank, and the randoms are easy to figure out even in another language. I use the German worlds (140, 147) but the Brazilian worlds work fine too. the ge is not an item creation machine, it's an item redistribution machine. if you wanted to collect food for the sake of having food, then yes fishing and cooking is faster. if you want to do combat, you are better off just doing combat because the amount of food you need is zero for everything but the strongest monsters. you can be self sufficient with just combat. combat does not need skills. Because everyone in RS is maxed with SS, EEE, and unicorns right. They could be. Nothing stopping them. That's like when they took extremes and overloads out of PvP. Who cares if someone doesn't have 96 herblore, they have just as much of a chance to get it as anyone. So lets all get maxed out on goblins because.. hey we dont need food! And by the way you can set up two tabs of rs, one English, and one German and if a random comes along that requires reading you just log out, switch tabs, log back in and do the random and then switch back to the German world, it all takes maybe 2 minutes max. To respond to you bladewing. You have been maxed for so long that you forget how many hits you take even at level 100, the fact is that unless you plan on maxing out on chickens then you need some food. In your "Perfect combat world" you cant cook any food for yourself to be fully combat self sufficient, so how can you TRAIN on any higher level monsters, hell at level 3 one goblin can kill you so you would need food just train from scratch. And where do you think high level weapons come from Blade, or your high level armors. These things can not be obtained via a pure self sufficient combat player. Good luck being maxed out with a rune longsword bro because I doubt that you can kill enough abby daemons to get a whip without food or enough Armadyl monsters for an AGS without food etc. Or try Nexing with no prayer pots bro, thats a genius idea. In the end, almost any high(er) level combat gear requires somebody with higher level non cmb skills to obtain these items in the first place! Try training range with now bow or arrows, or melee with no sword and armor! Oh thats right, we can just kick chickens!

So you can get more food from monsters these days then from the GE? Ok so lets say that you dont buy food, but you make it, It's way faster to fish and cook then to get the occasional sea bass from a monster. i.e You can be completely self sufficient if you have good skill levels and good combat, but you cannot be self sufficient with just combat, combat needs skills to aid it and skills need combat to be useful. That the end of it... Also, if you dont like bots then go to a foreign world, its not like you need to be able to read to click on a tree and then use quick bank, and the randoms are easy to figure out even in another language. I use the German worlds (140, 147) but the Brazilian worlds work fine too.

Think of RS as a Chinese Buffet, there is something for everyone. Lo Mein, Chicken with Brockolli, Pizza, Fried chicken etc. There is something for everyone in RS, personally, I dislike combat training and there fore I have a modest combat level of 91 while my gathering skills are pretty high up. Just because non combat skills help combat does not make combat more important. The relationship is mutual, combatters need skillers for products to help them fight and skillers need combatters to buy the goods that they make/gather. Remember that you are all arguing about opinions here, there are no right or wrong answers to "Which is better skilling or combat". Just because you may enjoy combat does not mean that somebody else does, and just because you like skilling does not mean that somebody else does. Calm down and stay on topic, both sets of skills are as important as another and they are included in the game to cater to as many possible consumers as possible. OT: Jagex has only ever been successful while suing ONE botting company, and have sued a half dozen, AKA its not going to happen folks...

Someone mentioned up top that a 50-70k ring should not give massively better drops that will make you millions. Well he is right, even if you cut out the fact that the price of a ROW is artificial the raw materials to make one are easily obtainable, D stone from a buyable crystal key or a crystal key that you find in pvm, then a gold bar to make a ring. A high crafting level and a decent mage level and there you go, a brand new ROW something that you can make in a short(ish) amount of time, not something that should make you millions of gold... You get what you pay for, stop ranting and deal with it

I guarantee that it wont, because Jagex is a business and making 120 the new cap for skills would reduce the amount of traffic that rs receives from its current mamber base and would decrease the influx of new members. Take a look at my post on second page before you make any arguments towards me as thats were my main statement is.

A level cap raise to 120 will never happen. The fact is that Jagex (and any other business) has to cater to the majority of its paying customers. Many members dont even have one 99 let alone all of them and the fact that some people believe that Jagex will raise the cap for the 0.01% of the rs community that has the dedication to get to these extreme xp amounts is ridiculous. Not to mention that an entire section of high level content would have to be created for every skill as every skill is linked in some way which would completely change the economy of rs and would put lower levels even more behind the higher levels. More quests, bosses armors, weapons... everything would have to be created even new portions of the map as new hunting grounds and farming plots would have to be created. Additionally, many people that have skill capes would most likely feel cheated out as 99 has become the highest possible level, the most prestigious achievement that you can acquire from a skill. If 99 were to become less then the best Jagex would have to create another marker to display level 120 in a skill just like the skillcape, which would make the skillcape "second best" people that dedicated countless time to acquiring 99's in skills such as slayer would feel that they had been cheated out of there hard earned accolade. Once again money becomes an issue, a higher level cap would cause a non negligible amount of high levels to rage quit, would discourage lower levels even more (once again causing many mid-low levels to quit). Lastly it would bring no new traffic to the game, why would higher and extremely insane level caps encourage new players? In the end a lvl 120 cap raise would be -A middle finger to high levels -A middle finger to mid-lower levels -A drop in new paying customers -Would [bleep] the rs economy -Would raise the prices of raw materials by a huge amount and drop the prices of rares by a huge amount causing some to quit as their hundreds of millions are lost in items -Would offer no benefits to the majority of players Overall, it's not going to happen as no positive effects would come about. EDIT Im seeing people bringing up a couple hundred maxed out players as if that compares to the rest of the members population... Never going to happen ever get over it, so few (comparatively) have all 99's the fact that people expect jagex to raise the level cap by 21 levels is preposterous. So elitist that it hurts my soul. The fact that in your opinion you need to put in over 2.5 months of grinding a purchasable skill to be "passionate" about it makes me question if you have ever gone outside... ever. And lets not forget the harder skills, the fact that you think that yoy should put over a year into farming in order to be passionate about the skill is well, [bleep]ING RIDICULOUS :wall:

It takes a lot of time to change a script, especially in a bot that can solve randoms, have 3 random switches per day and you will see a difference in how many bots are online if there are any at all. And by the way the more likely reason that bots are not being shut down on RS is because a noticeable percentage of rs players are most likely bots and banning people that use bots would be very detrimental to the revenue rates of Jagex. Bots are beatable, look at WoW, a much more popular game with more people on it that will pay money to get bots, why aren't there as many or more bots on that? It's simple, because the script is more complicated and not every 16 year old amateur backyard programmer can make a bot. If Jagex dropped the Java script and opted for a more complicated, non browser script then botting would be ended for the majority due to the fact that only some very capable amateur programmers can create bots for games with a more complex script (lets face it, how many legitimate college educated programmers make bots for a complex scripts for online video games) The thing is that Jagex 1. Has been and most likely always will be a browser game 2. Jagex wants to make as much money as possible In the end you have to square with the fact that Jagex will not get rid of bots, not because it cant but because it is bad for business, more complex scripts require more capable programmers, more staff and more updates (AKA more money spent to keep the game afloat). Additionally the loss of revenue from P2P Bots and banned users would drop the amount of money that Jagex makes every quarter.

There will be no solution for bots.... ever. Jagex will not switch from Java script..... ever. The only way to fully stop botting would be to make the game a down-loadable game similar to WOW, guild wars or lineage. If you have ever used a bot. You know that it sets up in a separate window, almost like a proxy and plays Runescape off of that, it does not play off of Mozilla or Google chrome or internet explorer. (I once used one out of curiosity and never did again, my net xp gain from botting is around 175k wc xp and no money). If RS stopped being a browser game then bots would be incapable of existing in the way that they do now. Botting would be possible again in time but it would give Jagex the time needed to get the edge on the programmers, not to mention that the more complicated script of a down-loadable game such as WoW is harder to bot, which is one of the reasons that there are many less bots on WoW then RS. Though this will most likely never happen this would be the only way to end the majority botting.

I got muted once for 48 hours because I cursed (after the filter update) in front of a player mod that was hanging out with his online girlfriend and he didn't want his "snuggle bear" to hear such language. It got reversed later that night. I still lolled at the nerd that was dating a girl over rs...

The bots just have to be re-scripted for the new log in screen and startup menu. It is a very simple task that will only take maybe a day or two for the bot programmers to fix.

Claws for sure.

Was the star by the basic mining spot south of lumby? If it was then i think I passed by you... (to Blyaunte) OT RWD cant be stopped, the simple excuse of, "It was a gift" can't really be disputed, they might as well just take it off of the report screen, I mean, really how could it be proven?