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Or you could just have a smaller population, produce less and accept the system as it is, rather than suggesting we change the rules just so you can have some specially advantage which you roleplay somewhen down the line.

If you want to roleplay then you can produce less. In Dusty's words 'If you want to handicap yourself then it is your own stupid fault.' Nobody is stopping you producing less.

So what are the advantages of having less people? Aside from being able to hide them. Because it seems that your idea benefits nobody and makes things more complicated....so, really, its a bad idea. The old system did work, its just I defined the point levels differently to Doom... Then again this is basically the same point system. All stations are the same and a station produces Z number of points. All planets are the same and a planet produces Y number of points. It takes X number of points to build a station. We just changed station to factory, and planet to population. The only thing we are discussing, really, is what X, Y and Z should equal

You can say that about any system... My race is really small, so we you can't base your system on planet size. My race doesn't have money, so you can't base your system on money. My race is made of energy so factories are pointless. My race are Von Neumann Machines, so they are the factories themselves. Everything breaks down when you start moving outside of 'this is the system and everyone does what the system says' Unless we have a dozen seperate systems, which I am not opposed to, but people will scream blue murder when someone else develops an addon to their system. 'I begin printing money and double my output' and so on and so forth. So either we accept that now and trust Dungeonal not to let anyone go overboard...or we just say 'here is the system, it works like this, live with it.'

Can't we just say you need 25,000 people, X amount of Machine Parts and 3 years to build a factory and then it employs the 25,000 people to work in the factory after it is completed? And Machine Parts are made at a rate of 1,000 people per part per year...or 100 per year produced by a factory. That way things stay pretty simple, and if people want to focus on industry they can invest 4 times the number of people(100,000 people would produce 100 parts, compared to a factory and 25,000 people producing 100 parts) and get a boost, without making it easy to zerg the game in the first five minutes. New techs should be dealt with by the moderator, or by some sort of comprehensive list of things technologies can do...People don't like the latter(and would find ways round it...or exploit it) and the former requires Dungeonal to be on most days and to spend alot of time working on stuff. My idea was to play to the end of April on the current map, then bring out 8 new sectors(so there were 9 in total, in a grid), so the different Empires would spread out. Of course at the end of April there was also to be the Dovan invasion so it would move from the easish expansion to a much harder expansion...but with more resources. Dungeon, I think it would help people if you gave some sort of step by step example of how you thought the first, five? turns would go for a player. We also need some examples of ships with the modules attached, otherwise we will all be stuffed when it comes to build them.

Oh its very much the same thing. 'Your plane doesn't work because it can't fly' 'Look at this calculation which says it can' 'Your plane can't fly' 'Look at this document saying it can' 'Your plane can't fly' 'Yes it can, I have proved that it can within some reasonable measure.' 'Your plane can't fly' Its not so much that I don't read posts, its that other people don't put anything in them....If it was simply about addressing some specific point then I can do that, but people just decide it won't work, and if you are against someone saying it won't work because it won't then it doesn't really matter what you say. Dungeonal I really don't mind someone else modding, as long as they don't do what Doom and Sere did and take almost no interest in the game. It looks unfair because 600 or 500 ships is a completely unrealistic figure to have built. America does not build 500-600 ships in one year. Why? Because it is not humanly possible. It would mean assembling 500-600 drydocks and then building ships...The whole nature of it is farsical. Replace the world battleship with reasonable and you see the problem. No one seems to have any idea what it means...to Retech it means spending 1% of your budget, to me it means being realistic(Not steamrolling Africa, but when in Rome...), to Dusty it means doing whatever he feels like. Either the game is played with rules or we might as well just declare Retech the winner now. Since he is the most capable of talking out of his hat.

No. Its impractical, implausible and damn near impossible.

I agree, which is why I wouldn't and haven't, started games when someone else started another game. I agree. Though I am fairly happy to discuss things, as long as they don't go round and round in circles. I guess so. I didn't plan to, but who knows what would have happened. :rolleyes: Well of course. Comparision is the easiest way to win an argument because only facts are involved, there is nothing to argue about. Compare the Numremburg Trials to the Stalinist Purge Trials and tell me that there was a difference? So what is the difference between peace loving democracies and the Soviet Union...If they are both willing to carry out show trial to prove their regime to be right? Compare horse drawn carts to cars...Carts are around for hundreds of years, and yet within 50 years they have disappeared entirely. So a new technology can easily be a giant step ahead of what came before, which is as valid as the counter argument that technology only advances slowly...which is basically what Retech was saying... The problem with this form of written communication is that you have to assume what the other person is saying...and if you don't have a similar outlook on life that can be difficult. Of course I could have just said: Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. [hide]Times change and we change with them. [/hide] If I wanted to be particularly indecipherable. Not sure grovel is the right word...grovelling usually involves actually doing what I say. Not nodding and doing the exact opposite. As for thread destroying... There were plenty of better ways to destroy the thread...locking it for instance. I wanted to carry on because once we got past the stupidity we might have played a good game, and I was building my Mars base so I would have been ahead. If the thread was destroyed because a virus ravaged 3/4 of the planet, then it was a pretty weak thread...

Did it come across as that? I meant that we all had ways of doing it because the game had reached that kind of stage... Yes, the UN would have said something about it and I think the should of, but I think they should say something, threaten something and give an ultimatum...something realistic. Care to find a quote about that...I am pretty sure the only time I mentioned it was http://forum.tip.it/topic/256692-the-hegemony-12th-feb-2018-part-2/page__view__findpost__p__4095843 Which was on the 5th of Febuary, the game started on the 26th of January http://forum.tip.it/topic/256692-the-hegemony-12th-feb-2018-part-2/page__view__findpost__p__4080946 Finished preliminary research here(on the 27th) started building on the 29th, after a year developing the basic concept, coming to 1 a year. With a grand total of 12. As stated many times they were flying prototypes, with each prototype being refined. Since they were only supposed to bomb and transport all they had to do was fly in a straightish line, climb, dive and turn occationally. Africawise...I stated that it wasn't permentant. 'Archi invests lots of Gold into getting an army, conquring Africa, getting a tonne of resources, then boosting off to Mars, leaving Africa as collection of countries not prone to being 'helped' by Retech in fi-three-ve or less years, and actually being a challange. ' Those limits we talked about... Though obvouisly me saying 'I am going to Mars. Weee' sort of defeats the object of the headstart thing. No... We just stay out of each other's way. I am sick of these pointless arguments and I am sick of you ignoring me, so I am giving you notice that you are going to be ignored entirely in the new version of Hegemony. I was making light of it because, deep down, I know you are not vindictive or hatefilled because I know that I am not vindictive or hatefilled, though it some times feels like it...and most of the time you are an annoyance on par with a mosquito that won't die when you hit it....But you are probably just as annoyed with me being me. We can't change that and I am saying lets stop trying to get along. If you want to create another Hegemony, nothing is stopping you. Then you can bar me from joining and ignore moderation all you like, and we can finally end this pointless feud.

No. The thing that annoyed me were that people were purposefully blurring or changing the rules to screw up other people's plans. And the difference between 'I spend half my yearly budget and build 600 capital ships' and 'I abolish money and build 1 plane a year' is plain to see... The difference between you and me...and Ross and Retech...Is that me and Ross place limits on ourselves which we would place on other people as well, whereas you and Retech just do whatever suits you and expect other people to do the same. And that difference screws up Hegemony....Us putting rules down and you ignore them. Who's fault is it? Both of us, if I just did what you did then things would be fine, if you just did what I did things would be fine. Trying to mix the two of us doesn't work and we shouldn't keep trying to make it work, and I think you agree with that. Two sides of the same coin...each eager to see the back of the other. :smile:

It was the lack of conflict that made the game boring... Brazil conquers an entire subcontinent and no one bats an eyelid. South Africa just happens to become a degenerate African state which Japan heroically saves. Singapore gives up decades of independance to be absorbed into the greater Japanese Empire. There was no challange to the game...unless you were trying to conquer a country someone else was trying to conquer, it didn't matter. I got annoyed because I was trying to play seriously and realistically(In the beginning at least), while people like you just went around annexing stuff on a fairly baseless pretext...Like the Ukraine. Then we saw Ross get shafted because he didn't think the 5 year rule was realistic, and set a 50 year target...what happens Retech swans in, says 5 years, 3 years later annexes the same place and ignores Ross entirely, then decides he is the victim. Its stuff like that which are not Ironic or Funny, but just wrong...stuff that just jumps up and goes 'This is completely unjust and just stop' The god awful thing in Somalia. Japan tries to conquer it, Switzerland and Russia stop it and then Romania invades. Rather than anything remotely realistic happening, Russia and Switzerland are condemed by the UN and the UN launches worldwide sanctions against Switzerland. Then Japan steals Switzerland research project. That was, in some respects, funny...Someone goes charging in and gets caught in a trap. There is some irony in it... But what should have happened is the UN sends in peacekeepers in an announced visit(not under cover of nightfall by a freelance operator) and threatened, not instantly inflicted, sanction. Its like a practical joke which leaves someone disfigured, there was a line which was crossed...and it turned, like the Australia thing, into this abhorrant mess which just inspired disgust. Those sorts of things are what ruined Hegemony, because they made the game about screwing your opponant as hard as you could. Fine in gameplay, but when the same people are defining the rules...I mean you yourself accuse me of bias and such...Then people, like Retech, see it as an open excuse to ignore the rules. The game is then not a game but a screwing contest, how much can you screw up the game rules. Both Ross and Retech said they were only interested in destroying the other. I had decided that trying to play the game was completely pointless, so was going to build a rocket and go to Mars, get a headstart there...though I had multiple plans to screw everyone else and make myself top dog...sun shade, pollution, cancer guns, virus bombs...All operations I had, working away so that I could destroy a country if it annoyed me. The game was no longer fun, and I think everyone could see that.

Rocco, what do you want us to do? Hegemony 2 was a ramshackle system, which rattled along because no one payed the blindest bit of attention to anyone else...as soon as people started taking an interest in anyone else the whole system fell apart. Also people don't care. Retech did his big 'Repopulation to the high heavens' no one cared, Mather did his stupid budget, no one cared, I stole technology from everyone, only grim cared. Even the Urk-Orz invasion, most people ignored it... In the last game, Retech builds a massive navy out of nothing, no one cares, I conquer half of Africa, only Dusty cares, Dusty Conquers Easten Europe, only I care. Grim Conquers France, only I care. I try to conquer Europe, only Dusty cares, Retech tries to conquer Indonesia, Singapore, Korea and Oman, no one cares. Sere conqures Britian, no one cares. Doom conquers South America, no one cares. The game doesn't work because nobody cares about anything that doesn't affect their narrow band of interests. So the idea that we can self moderate is a complete farse. Furthermore the budgets in the last two games were complete nightmares, people would post figures which bore no relation to reality or even a game-like reality....How many games do you know that doubles your money every 10 years? Can you imagine playing Sim City or Total War...or Civilisation with that sort of a budget? 'My lord, we have build 5,000,000 axemen AND have doubled our economy.' The game would be terrible, it is impossible to lose. So the idea that we can be reasonable and responsible is also a complete farse. So either we have a system of wikis and tech trees and other things which give the game some grounding, or we forget the whole thing and come back in a month or so and see if people have mellowed out.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fuller *Cough*

http://www.planetburrito.com/tb/alt_codes.html Fuller list ∀ ⊆ ∞ ∦ ≠ ♠ ↑ ®

Yeah.... http://forum.tip.it/topic/251910-hegemony-argument-thread/page__view__findpost__p__4190650

Soon, hopefully. I can't believe the moderators got nothing out of it... <_< :rolleyes:

Indeed. :thumbup:

Then how come Rocco, Retech and I didn't know what it was and only Doom was capable of explaining it, at which point everyone disagreed and produced their own version. Furthermore I was more concerned about not being instantly killed by Grim(Or the thread exploding from Hex) than worried about the Terran Federation and being the best.

You can't win against Dusty...Your damned if you do and your damned if you don't. Oh, and Doom agreed with the production system, most everyone else thought it wasn't good and started using a different system....and since then we have discussed a method of making it better so everyone agrees which you said you were going to ignore...so...

See: Archi's responce to claims that he destroyed Hegemony because he was mad at Retech, including the 2 page conversation between himself and Retech in which he warned Retech that his attack would destroy the game and stopped the attack happening three times before finally running out of ways round it. Oddly enough when I do that its called God Mode...When you do it its called being Reasonable... A tremendously even handed approach to game play.

Yes indeed, why should he moderator get the advantage that is afforded to the exaulted Dusty, surely only the great master of Hegemony himself can play in God Mode...

Customisation in what sense? You can create new technologies and I create the modules to go into your ships, if you want a different sort of module then you discuss it with me and we come to an agreement, the module can then be slotted into your ship by me or by you.

They would be...if only space wasn't a vacuum at minus -200 degrees celcius....So thats gonna be a no.

Space Artillary is pretty much covered by the Dumfire Missiles. The only diffferece is that a missile doesn't produce recoil for the ship, so requires less power to fire. I can still add them if you like. Shaped Regular Explosives can be added.

Mock Tech Tree: [hide] Ballistic Weapons: Gauss Driver Sniper Cannon Mass Driver -Quantum Conductors Culture, Commerce, Communication(C3): FTL Communications FTL Broadband Battle Computers Energy Weapons: Red Lasers Green Lasers Ultraviolet Lasers Particle Beam Torpedo Weapons: Plasma Cannon Shield Technology: Deflectors Warhead Technology: Nuclear Warhead Nuclear Mines DF Racks -Shaped Nuclear Warhead Engine: Fission -Recombinant Fissionables Drone: Cybernetics Advanced Robotics Predictive Gunnery Expert Systems Combat Drones Biological: Cloning Gene Modification Industry: WALDO Units FTL- Faster than Light DF- Dumb Fire WALDO- We All Like Distance Operators [/hide] There are 10 classes, but you can invent more...This is just my, or rather Sword of Stars, recommendations. Dashes indicate a higher 'tier', so there is no point researching it by itself. I will try to make a graphic(since the SoS system is Psudo-3D...so copying that is more difficult. If anyone wants to add technology then feel free to do so. But remember...this is a guideline for low level research. Not high level stuff and is not 'The Tech Tree', now and forever. Its an example, so you can still create your own technology later on, as long as you have my approval for the tech, to prevent it being too powerful or taking too short a time, ect, ect. I am going to flesh out some modules and basic ship designs, later, but I need some sleep, so good will to all and to all a good night.