jayc3399

Ah delusional hope. I'm betting it falls short or maybe hits the 250k mark.

I don't get why everyone thinks all the USA hasn't voted yet. I live in the middle of Canada (see basically middle of the USA) and I saw it this morning before work/school.

I enjoy seeing all the fan boys ignore the fact that voting rates will PLUMMET once the majority have voted. I would estimate that by 13:00 GMT on Sunday after ~48 hours we will see ~80-90% of what the votes will finish at. IE if there is 130k votes at the time it is probably a safe bet that the finish line will be somewhere in the 143-156k range.

I don't recall saying "nobody wants RS2007". What I did say (implicitly or explicitly) is that the people pushing for this are vocal minority. Also do you actually have substantiated statistics? Also, what is 317, 474? I think those numbers refer to revisions. I have to agree, I'm worried the majority of the votes is going to come from people who just don't want the EoC. It would be and interesting statistic to see where the data trends for age of accounts currently playing.

But I agree, They needed better combat. EoC was the wrong choice though. Because of the mass mess it created. Simple as that. Facts are still there that the wilds dead. Its a massive mess. I'm not saying the EoC was without fault, but the fact that you blame it on Mark is laughable. The reason that the EoC was a flop was due to the mentality of the players. If we worked in a system where we didn't recieve and update every week, and got down right pissy when we didn't, then they could have stopped wasting time and resources building two games concurrently and just straight up developed one. Go back a year, have Jagex say hey guys, we are working on the biggest update ever, this is going to mean you won't see regular content updates for a while, but thats okay because what we are bringing you will be AMAZING. But they couldn't do that, because the player base is ignorant to the fact that the treatment they receive in terms of rapid updates is unheard of in the gaming industry. For everyone that complains about the EoC being unfinished, the only person to blame is the community. Funnny thing is, Jagex said the EoC its self came out to soon. I dont even know what you're trying to prove. They had a whole team work on EoC. They had a beta which they closed to early. They did not listen to feedback concerning the concepts. They only wanted tweeks. This is not the community this is Jagex. Mod mark is very very egotistic. I also think hes not a strong leader. Maybe thats a personal opinion to me. But the facts are there in player drops and feedback. You completely ignored the fact that its the PLAYERS fault that EoC came out to early. It was unsustainable for jagex to develope all new content twice, it just doesn't make good business sense so they had two options, release EoC early and just brute force the fixes afterwards, or stop putting out content updates and focus on the EoC. Now, truth is in the history, if you look back to when they stopped garunteeing updates every week and removed the BTS the outrage of not getting frequent updates was huges, on the other hand they know no one likes a buggy game so they had a choice to make. Did they make the right one? Who is to say, maybe no updates for 3 months would have been a better option and cost them less players, we'll never know, they wont either. But at the end of the day, blame the players, not Jagex. Please tell me where the players choose the release date. When it was announced players said it was to soon. Keep throwing made up garbage at me. lmao. Did you even read what I wrote, the players chose by forcing Jagex to make that decision. There is nothing made up there at all. If you can't see that then your beyond help anyways. We never forced nothing. I dont know where you pull half of these points from. There was PLENTY of constructive feedback. I saw 100s of threads ignored. Simply because it didnt fit Jagex's views. Thats what I dont like about Jagex. Comprimise. 'Idc about the combat, its the mess around it.' I put it in bold for you. The is my last one I swear, you can't argue with stupidity because it has nothing to lose. OT: The part about updates and shit EoC or no updates and awesome EoC is what I was getting at, hopefully these basic words make it simple enough to understand. Unless you need me to start typing in gibberish. This has gone beyond rediculous More OT: The main thing a lot of people like about this 07 scape is the refresh to all of the economy etc. What I would rather see is like when a new server gets released on wow, it has its own independant economy and only characters from that server can play there. So here is the idea. New EoC current servers, recieve the same updates as live game but you need to roll a new level 3 character to play on them. They have their own GE server independent from the rest of the game. This would allow the desperate refresh of the economy that is needed and still allow Jagex to continue the same updates without any additional work. Minor infastructure upgrades to support a seperate GE maybe but should be simple to do. Something like this would be awesome.

But I agree, They needed better combat. EoC was the wrong choice though. Because of the mass mess it created. Simple as that. Facts are still there that the wilds dead. Its a massive mess. I'm not saying the EoC was without fault, but the fact that you blame it on Mark is laughable. The reason that the EoC was a flop was due to the mentality of the players. If we worked in a system where we didn't recieve and update every week, and got down right pissy when we didn't, then they could have stopped wasting time and resources building two games concurrently and just straight up developed one. Go back a year, have Jagex say hey guys, we are working on the biggest update ever, this is going to mean you won't see regular content updates for a while, but thats okay because what we are bringing you will be AMAZING. But they couldn't do that, because the player base is ignorant to the fact that the treatment they receive in terms of rapid updates is unheard of in the gaming industry. For everyone that complains about the EoC being unfinished, the only person to blame is the community. Funnny thing is, Jagex said the EoC its self came out to soon. I dont even know what you're trying to prove. They had a whole team work on EoC. They had a beta which they closed to early. They did not listen to feedback concerning the concepts. They only wanted tweeks. This is not the community this is Jagex. Mod mark is very very egotistic. I also think hes not a strong leader. Maybe thats a personal opinion to me. But the facts are there in player drops and feedback. You completely ignored the fact that its the PLAYERS fault that EoC came out to early. It was unsustainable for jagex to develope all new content twice, it just doesn't make good business sense so they had two options, release EoC early and just brute force the fixes afterwards, or stop putting out content updates and focus on the EoC. Now, truth is in the history, if you look back to when they stopped garunteeing updates every week and removed the BTS the outrage of not getting frequent updates was huges, on the other hand they know no one likes a buggy game so they had a choice to make. Did they make the right one? Who is to say, maybe no updates for 3 months would have been a better option and cost them less players, we'll never know, they wont either. But at the end of the day, blame the players, not Jagex. Please tell me where the players choose the release date. When it was announced players said it was to soon. Keep throwing made up garbage at me. lmao. Did you even read what I wrote, the players chose by forcing Jagex to make that decision. There is nothing made up there at all. If you can't see that then your beyond help anyways.

But I agree, They needed better combat. EoC was the wrong choice though. Because of the mass mess it created. Simple as that. Facts are still there that the wilds dead. Its a massive mess. I'm not saying the EoC was without fault, but the fact that you blame it on Mark is laughable. The reason that the EoC was a flop was due to the mentality of the players. If we worked in a system where we didn't recieve and update every week, and got down right pissy when we didn't, then they could have stopped wasting time and resources building two games concurrently and just straight up developed one. Go back a year, have Jagex say hey guys, we are working on the biggest update ever, this is going to mean you won't see regular content updates for a while, but thats okay because what we are bringing you will be AMAZING. But they couldn't do that, because the player base is ignorant to the fact that the treatment they receive in terms of rapid updates is unheard of in the gaming industry. For everyone that complains about the EoC being unfinished, the only person to blame is the community. Funnny thing is, Jagex said the EoC its self came out to soon. I dont even know what you're trying to prove. They had a whole team work on EoC. They had a beta which they closed to early. They did not listen to feedback concerning the concepts. They only wanted tweeks. This is not the community this is Jagex. Mod mark is very very egotistic. I also think hes not a strong leader. Maybe thats a personal opinion to me. But the facts are there in player drops and feedback. You completely ignored the fact that its the PLAYERS fault that EoC came out to early. It was unsustainable for jagex to develope all new content twice, it just doesn't make good business sense so they had two options, release EoC early and just brute force the fixes afterwards, or stop putting out content updates and focus on the EoC. Now, truth is in the history, if you look back to when they stopped garunteeing updates every week and removed the BTS the outrage of not getting frequent updates was huges, on the other hand they know no one likes a buggy game so they had a choice to make. Did they make the right one? Who is to say, maybe no updates for 3 months would have been a better option and cost them less players, we'll never know, they wont either. But at the end of the day, blame the players, not Jagex.

What is there to like about RNG? That all RS combat was, who got lucky and got the big hits first. Sure knowing when to spec and that required some thought, and learning to click through the tabs took some practice. The thing is, rs combat is something you could build a program to do, there is ZERO thought required. You want quality combat, thats what EoC is trying to do, its still a ways off, and part of it is the lack of abilites, which is brought on by the mentallity of the combat triangle. There are countless ways to improve the EoC version of the game and I only wish that this delusional devotion to 07 scape had been better spent on constructively improving EoC.

I'm not saying the EoC was without fault, but the fact that you blame it on Mark is laughable. The reason that the EoC was a flop was due to the mentality of the players. If we worked in a system where we didn't recieve and update every week, and got down right pissy when we didn't, then they could have stopped wasting time and resources building two games concurrently and just straight up developed one. Go back a year, have Jagex say hey guys, we are working on the biggest update ever, this is going to mean you won't see regular content updates for a while, but thats okay because what we are bringing you will be AMAZING. But they couldn't do that, because the player base is ignorant to the fact that the treatment they receive in terms of rapid updates is unheard of in the gaming industry. For everyone that complains about the EoC being unfinished, the only person to blame is the community.

Around 13:00 I think. For reference: 14k votes at 14:00 27k at 15:00 It seems to get 20-30 votes every 2-3 seconds. (i was refreshing, keep in mind that wont be totally acurate i guess.) Also the good thing about it is now people are coming out of school. Peak time would be around 8-11pm GMT. Due to eastcoast america coming out of school and work. The weekend will be nice to see The real indicators will be after a full 24 hours, and after the weekend has passed. After that I assume everyone that feels strongly about it will have voted and the incoming votes will slow significantly. Try to look at the changes in votes over a larger time frame than a few seconds for a more accurate picture though :P Should hit 50k easily, maybe 250k ($15 is a bit much for an 07 server but 5 seems reasonable) but I doubt it'l hit 500-750k. I just want to see figures. Its always nice. But 15$ i think was pulled out of his ass tbh. Lets say it had 15 servers at 15$ thats just pathetic. Concidering the main works just starting it up. Then the server pay and critical upgrades. Honestly they wont come very often. I hope the $15 sticks, if people want a new game they should pay the fees for it. Make it profitable jagex and bring in some money for the rest of us who support your desisions of growing the game. Thats harsh. Just because you dont like the idea it doesnt mean it should make other suffer. And that 15$ would be MORE than enough to keep it going. Not only that the profits always go back to RuneScape live anyway. I dont really think you understand the game plan they have set. See the part that I like about this is no matter what the additional fee is your approaching the value of buying a wow membership. For anyone who wants the old style of combat your delusional. There was no "skill" or anything like that to participate in Rs PvP, if your willing to pay that much for combat, go play WoW, it is tenfold the game in terms of PvP combat.

It's idiocy to assume that if you send them more money then the game will improve. They allocate the money you send them as they see fit not as you want it. You simply pay for the terms of service. If anything, they have done a great job of pissing it away on failed games, games that never come out, idiotic marketing, and bloated staff in cushy offices making music videos and partying all day. They've also reinvested more money than they made in profits to double the size of the Runescape team to allow them to bring high quality content more frequently (eg the much higher quality on quests) To be honest, I think thats bull. I've seen worse content in the last year than ever. I think its just Jagex trying to make a good image for them selves. What would you list as some of the worst content ever?

Around 13:00 I think. For reference: 14k votes at 14:00 27k at 15:00 It seems to get 20-30 votes every 2-3 seconds. (i was refreshing, keep in mind that wont be totally acurate i guess.) Also the good thing about it is now people are coming out of school. Peak time would be around 8-11pm GMT. Due to eastcoast america coming out of school and work. The weekend will be nice to see The real indicators will be after a full 24 hours, and after the weekend has passed. After that I assume everyone that feels strongly about it will have voted and the incoming votes will slow significantly. Try to look at the changes in votes over a larger time frame than a few seconds for a more accurate picture though :P Should hit 50k easily, maybe 250k ($15 is a bit much for an 07 server but 5 seems reasonable) but I doubt it'l hit 500-750k. I just want to see figures. Its always nice. But 15$ i think was pulled out of his ass tbh. Lets say it had 15 servers at 15$ thats just pathetic. Concidering the main works just starting it up. Then the server pay and critical upgrades. Honestly they wont come very often. I hope the $15 sticks, if people want a new game they should pay the fees for it. Make it profitable jagex and bring in some money for the rest of us who support your desisions of growing the game.

I'd venture to say by sunday night we will have ~80-90% of all the people who will vote have their vote in. I fully expect the 50k mark. I'm just hoping it falls short of the 250k mark.

Firstly I don't see the relevance to platinum myrs post, aside from you directing it at anyone vaguely pro-eoc. 1) 2007 rs is probably the biggest game-changer for runescape since the eoc. Any post on it is bound to get a lot of attention, especially if it's being shared everywhere for more exposure (which it is 2.7k shares). 2) Those EoC changes were incredibly minor. Changes to dragon lp and dungeoneering defence are incredibly underwhelming considering the changes that are expected. Berserk and resonance were nerfed (quite rightly) but I doubt people were happy with it. Just because the second post mentions eoc does not mean you can take it as an indicator of eoc popularity. There are no statistics we can currently find that will give us a good idea until we wait for the vote to progress Would be nice to have an option on there that says "Love me some EoC, lets keep that!"

First, good luck getting a DDS, second I bet most people don't even know how to get those weapons, let alone want to skill for them. And the PvP won't be the same because the people are different, you watch pking in recent years and teleing away and [bleep] fests run rampant. Its the community back then that made pking what it was, not how you did the pking. Yeah, I bet the players of 2007 and before don't know how to get a dds. The players that will truely be playing this will be pkers from that era... And if not I don't mind no honour pking, it's really how I did the pking else I would still be pking... Derp, this comment made no sense, jayc. The majority of your fellow fanboys that will be on this server won't be pre 07 players, they will be people who don't like the EoC and are used to Dclaw and AGS rushing with vengence.

First, good luck getting a DDS, second I bet most people don't even know how to get those weapons, let alone want to skill for them. And the PvP won't be the same because the people are different, you watch pking in recent years and teleing away and [bleep] fests run rampant. Its the community back then that made pking what it was, not how you did the pking.

This is the reason why I'd like to see a creation date requirement for voting. Let it be 1 month even. That way you get less "Rigged" votes. Ideally it would even go back to 07 or older because then you get people who actually know what the game was not all the whiners who just want EoC gone. They have the right to 'whine' its exactly what you're doing. On a side not, The date creation would benifit the 2007 more than the reffer a friend. First off I'm not whining, I'm pointing out the flaws in this. Second of all how on earth would having a creation date of 07 or older help you? If it was simple as make a new account. Im sure people would. People love the Era its well balenced compared to live RS. I for one will preffer making a account there than one on the live anyday. How can you say 07 was more balanced compared to live. It was melee wins all. That is the furthest thing from balanced. You want true balance in this game, remove weakness and make all styles equal in damage output. 100% balanced and 100% personal choice driven. When you talk of balence. Its not just combat. Its the game as an overall. Whilest it is melee driven... Mage and range does have a fighting chance. Also im pointing out the flaws in your points. Same thing. They point out flaws in EoC same thing. Like what was posted below, if you actually played back then you'd know that range and mage didn't have a chance to compete. The real fan base of which you are included? You who take the role of some kind of freedom fighter telling people to rebel against Jagex and not to re-subscribe with the goal of forcing them to spend money to satisfy your whim? Far from a fan, you and your group are more a thorn in Jagex's side who will bar the way of progress in order to achieve your own ends. I have to agree with that. But I still think its good they are listening to the players for once. Wether you are for it or not. An induvidual is not the community. The fact people are selfishly torn between simple things that dont even effect eachother is crazy. No one really knows what the community wants untill Jagex puts the main spoken problems to the test. The fact that you blatantly ignore how the could potentially effect the live game is laughable. Once again you do realize you will be starting at level 3 with nothing, and your going to be begging someone to get 85 slayer to camp for whips. You won't be pking for a long long time. Unless you enjoyed the old days of <30combat mage pking. Probably the most logical voter base, the PvP community. The only reason I wouldn't mind if this passed is for you guys. Logical and yet they can't be bothered to find out that the PvP that once existed won't be around. The real fan base of which you are included? You who take the role of some kind of freedom fighter telling people to rebel against Jagex and not to re-subscribe with the goal of forcing them to spend money to satisfy your whim? Far from a fan, you and your group are more a thorn in Jagex's side who will bar the way of progress in order to achieve their own ends. If people do not like the game anymore (because of a specific update such as the EoC, or a multitude of updates over a period of time), they are perfectly within their rights to unsubscribe and to express the reasons for which they did so. If enough people do this, clealry Jagex has done something wrong and they will lose profit, as they should, for not catering to the demands of their playerbase. There is nothing wrong with them spending money to satisfy a large number of players, it's called 'listening'. Just because you detest the EoC or other updates does not make you a 'thorn in the side of Jagex'. We want the game as it was at a given point in the past, we will make that known and if Jagex think they can make some money from it (which they clearly can), they will do it. Everyone's happy. You seem to treat the wants of everyone that is not satisfied as somehow invalid - they are not invalid. A 2007 server is unique because it only caters to players who have played since 2007. The target audience can never grow, and the driving force behind the update is nostalgia. So, we are being asked if we want to fund an experiment aimed at a small, dwindling portion of the player base known for never being satisfied with change and general hell raising if things aren't perfect. At the heart of this endeavor is an emotion(?) well known for making things past seem better then they are. What does this mean? To me it seems like a terrible idea doomed to failure, and until I see proof (someone from Jagex showing me real numbers) I will not vote yes. Unfortunately it will also cater to the people who go "Anything without the EoC will be ten bajillion times better then this, it doesn't matter what else we lose because EoC will be gone!"

This is the reason why I'd like to see a creation date requirement for voting. Let it be 1 month even. That way you get less "Rigged" votes. Ideally it would even go back to 07 or older because then you get people who actually know what the game was not all the whiners who just want EoC gone. They have the right to 'whine' its exactly what you're doing. On a side not, The date creation would benifit the 2007 more than the reffer a friend. First off I'm not whining, I'm pointing out the flaws in this. Second of all how on earth would having a creation date of 07 or older help you? If it was simple as make a new account. Im sure people would. People love the Era its well balenced compared to live RS. I for one will preffer making a account there than one on the live anyday. How can you say 07 was more balanced compared to live. It was melee wins all. That is the furthest thing from balanced. You want true balance in this game, remove weakness and make all styles equal in damage output. 100% balanced and 100% personal choice driven.

This is the reason why I'd like to see a creation date requirement for voting. Let it be 1 month even. That way you get less "Rigged" votes. Ideally it would even go back to 07 or older because then you get people who actually know what the game was not all the whiners who just want EoC gone.

How does that not effect me, and every othe EoC player, it completely redistributes the wealth in game to the few select people left behind which will decrease the value of a gp that is already virtually worthless. Stating that Bots do some good is supporting them, you've yet to justify how they are even remotely good. What I'm pointing out is that all of the possible benefits to 07 scape (refreshed economy new start to everything, reduced inflation) are all going to be ANNAHILATED with in a month by the massive influx of bots and the desertion of people who realise, hey I dont want to to redo everything I've done and start over at level 3.

Yes, but. it still does have some good. I didnt said bots were for the best. People are over reacting. But to say its 100% no good is narrow minded. And even if there were no bots. Flower game would be there. Simply to take the money from the people who earned it from collecting resources. I dont really see it as a valid arguement. People can still cut trees, collect ores, farm herbs. Its not like bots stop you. Whilst making it harder slightly yes. But everyones way over dramatic about it. You know what, open up 07 scape and we'll see what people like you think of having to farm your own resources because guess what, its not collecting logs and bow strings that are going to be the issue. The issue will be a complete lack of physical currency. GP drops and pickpocket etc don't bring in anything in terms of the GP in game, thats brought in buy stuff like high alch and selling to general stores. What your looking at is needing a barting system. You logged in and mined 1000 ores, I chose to log in and chop 500 logs. My 500 logs might be worth the 1000 ores you have, ore maybe only 250 logs. Thats something that will need to be developed. People will try and take market prices from live game and it isn't going to work. So guess what, they will produce bots to mass farm all the resources that people want and your going to have two versions of the game completely corrupted by bots. Thats the part im looking forward too lmao. Building RuneScape. Remember inflation. It works in RuneScape to. - What on earth would they be gambling for? Goblin mails? Botting will be in both, 06 and live. Its allways been there. People are making to much of a big deal. Trying to find every flaw. You say you want building runescape but you advocate bringing in bots to make it easier. Mhmm this 07 scape is just looking more FANTASTIC by the minute. I absolutely love the idea of an economy reset, it would help a lot of things right. Jagex should take and erase a percentage of items put on the GE every day to remove items to reduce supply and at the same time I hope one of these new skills needs items from other skills AND costs 5 times what construction does. RS needs more money sinks if it has any hope of balancing out the economy. 07 Scape is going to suffer ten times worse because your going to see a massive amount of bots, along with people going "Selling 07Scape full Rune, 10m EoC scape" which isn't going to help at all.

Yes, but. it still does have some good. I didnt said bots were for the best. People are over reacting. But to say its 100% no good is narrow minded. And even if there were no bots. Flower game would be there. Simply to take the money from the people who earned it from collecting resources. I dont really see it as a valid arguement. People can still cut trees, collect ores, farm herbs. Its not like bots stop you. Whilst making it harder slightly yes. But everyones way over dramatic about it. You know what, open up 07 scape and we'll see what people like you think of having to farm your own resources because guess what, its not collecting logs and bow strings that are going to be the issue. The issue will be a complete lack of physical currency. GP drops and pickpocket etc don't bring in anything in terms of the GP in game, thats brought in buy stuff like high alch and selling to general stores. What your looking at is needing a barting system. You logged in and mined 1000 ores, I chose to log in and chop 500 logs. My 500 logs might be worth the 1000 ores you have, ore maybe only 250 logs. Thats something that will need to be developed. People will try and take market prices from live game and it isn't going to work. So guess what, they will produce bots to mass farm all the resources that people want and your going to have two versions of the game completely corrupted by bots.

He is right, the EoC is a good thing for the game. Progression is the only way to stay alive in a growing market. Sit stagnant and your going to fall to the bottom.

My reason for not voting is that I don't believe EoC was a step in the wrong direction. However, dividing the game/community in two is. Obviously the existence of 07 servers will generate jagex more money in the short term. However if it ends up failing and the players on it quit (a proportion of which may have come around to eoc given time) then they'll end up losing out. They can never loose out though. They can easily take off unused servers and cash out what they made. Its common sense. EoC was not the right direction for RuneScape simply because the mass mess it made. And the content it killed. Fact is. EoC probably lost more money that it costs to put up these servers. Development time wise and loss of members. This way they rebuild trust. And maybe they'll start realising their mistakes and instead of covering up maybe theyll act upon it (if they want their job long term) I personaly think the community wont be divided. I will play both. I dont do much in the live game and I will never touch combat again unless its required in a quest etc. I will occasionaly skill and wait for new quests and actual intresting updates. If anything it'll keep players holiding on longer while jagex pulls themselves together. Because lets be honest. They are failing badly as a company. To an extent where they scavinge money that only angers players. EoC was exactly the way the game needed to go. The true reason that EoC has missed the boat is due to the needy nature of players demanding updates every week. This is the only game that has that. If it weren't for this and they didn't have to develope everything twice and could have just devoted everything too it you would have seen a lot less issues upon release. The majority (almost every) popular game out right now has combat mechanics in it. Thats the way society has moved, if RS wanted to stay viable it needs to have a decent combat system. The problem is the way this game was designed and built wasn't made for a singularily combat based system, which is why retrofitting one in now is so painful. If they had the option to stop all development except EoC for a year they could have done so much more. Weapon specific abilites like grabbing and pulling someone to you with a whip would have actually developed some form of skill required for combat. Anyone that doesn't see this needs to try playing a game with real combat mechanics and you'll see why RS is falling behind without EoC, it was a step in the right direction but a giant leap behind where it needs to be. Like I said. It wasnt the combat its self. It was the descruction of everything around it. Combat needed to change. But I think there are much better solutions that they could of implimented over time instead of chucking the whole player base in one boat and messing it up. I feel Mod Mark rushed it just because he wanted to prove a point to all players. Which backfired on him and thats when the petition came around. Which also again made him go back on what he said because hes trying to slyly compensate for the mess he has created. Theres plenty of ways to make Pre-EoC combat unique and still fun at the same time. Abilities and a complete overhaul in weapons and armour was not the way. If they want to update something. Always base it on the old. Like with dragon weapons. They all look crap to be quite honest. Child like, and points everywhere. (which dont even look deadly) Imagine the old Dragon Longsword. All the needed to do was add more faces to it. To make it look sharp and cutting edge. Imagine a thick kanta. Slightly lighter red where the blade gets thinned for sharpness. That sort of thing. Thats a decent upgrade. They tried to hard. Ultimately trying to hard clouds vision. Michael Jackson once said. Sometimes the artist has to get out the way of the music and let the music write its self (imagine when you're trying to sleep at night and all these things come to you, if you try to think of something it turns out shit. It you let it come to you, the outcome tends to be much greater) What are some of these better changes? A complex system of gear and weapon choices similar to something like WoW would allow for a decent metagamming community and allow some diversity.

My reason for not voting is that I don't believe EoC was a step in the wrong direction. However, dividing the game/community in two is. Obviously the existence of 07 servers will generate jagex more money in the short term. However if it ends up failing and the players on it quit (a proportion of which may have come around to eoc given time) then they'll end up losing out. They can never loose out though. They can easily take off unused servers and cash out what they made. Its common sense. EoC was not the right direction for RuneScape simply because the mass mess it made. And the content it killed. Fact is. EoC probably lost more money that it costs to put up these servers. Development time wise and loss of members. This way they rebuild trust. And maybe they'll start realising their mistakes and instead of covering up maybe theyll act upon it (if they want their job long term) I personaly think the community wont be divided. I will play both. I dont do much in the live game and I will never touch combat again unless its required in a quest etc. I will occasionaly skill and wait for new quests and actual intresting updates. If anything it'll keep players holiding on longer while jagex pulls themselves together. Because lets be honest. They are failing badly as a company. To an extent where they scavinge money that only angers players. EoC was exactly the way the game needed to go. The true reason that EoC has missed the boat is due to the needy nature of players demanding updates every week. This is the only game that has that. If it weren't for this and they didn't have to develope everything twice and could have just devoted everything too it you would have seen a lot less issues upon release. The majority (almost every) popular game out right now has combat mechanics in it. Thats the way society has moved, if RS wanted to stay viable it needs to have a decent combat system. The problem is the way this game was designed and built wasn't made for a singularily combat based system, which is why retrofitting one in now is so painful. If they had the option to stop all development except EoC for a year they could have done so much more. Weapon specific abilites like grabbing and pulling someone to you with a whip would have actually developed some form of skill required for combat. Anyone that doesn't see this needs to try playing a game with real combat mechanics and you'll see why RS is falling behind without EoC, it was a step in the right direction but a giant leap behind where it needs to be.