meol

Made to believe? You mean like theres a gene that wants us to believe that an intelligent creator is responsible for the universe? Maybe not a specific gene, but we certainly are inclined to believe and search for the supernatural, both from a sociological and a psychological point of view. And atheism (be it right or wrong) seems to be an evolutionary novel idea, along with liberalism and sexual exclusivity.

I'm not sure if you guys realise girls already need a bunch of make-up to look "natural". :razz:

It might be impossible to know who or what (a) God is, or if he exists at all, but at least we can know with absolute certainty what his opinion is on any possible issue. :unsure: ---- Anyway. Why do you (you=anyone religious) think there is a soul? Where is it, how does it communicate with the body, and what does it actually do? I personally enjoyed this essay as an attack on the concept of a soul. Why do miracles always seem to have a possible naturalistic explanation? God seems to have something against amputees.

But there is proof of physics. Well, I've been studying physics for a couple of years now, and the OP really doesn't sound like one.

Slightly. Hail - Hale Heil - Hile And this is why English sucks so much.

At least it blends nicely on that skin. It's horrid on Deflection. But this was intentional, as far as I know.

Yeah, the lights/fire/lasers/smoke were awesome. But they didn't play a single Christmas song, so it wasn't weird at all. They mainly focused on Beethoven's Last Night and played a couple of Night Castle songs.

Went to my first concert ever: Managed to get a bunch of autographs, and a huge mancrush on Rob Evan. <3:

You can play Classic (sandbox) for free, or get the whole game for a one-time payment of 15 while it's still in Beta, which is really worth it.

I'd personally work with MS if you can get it for free. It boils down to personal preference at the end, but to me, OpenOffice seemed kind of... sub-optimal, especially how Writer handles tables and images. But you could always try them both. That aside, I've been trying out LyX, and I'm quite happy with it so far.

Just a general reminder to everyone to keep it civil before this becomes a flamefest.

By Omnia - neoceltic pagan folk or something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTfjC9FK4TM

Admins are still people; humans with hopes and dreams of their own, and most importantly, empathy. Why not send someone a short PM?

I never really understood why there is so much animosity against furries. Everyone has fantasies of one sort or the other, anthropomorphic animals are in no way different in my eyes. An it harm none, do what ye will.

The injuries ended up killing the owl. OT: All kinds of animal abusers.

Sorry, Admon is the best I could do, and it's already taken.

So how does this thing work? :unsure: I think I'll stay in OT and debate philosophy and stuff.

Forum name: meol Ingame name: a lamber Slave you wish to bid for: n_odie Your bid: 30.000 gp, 1337 mind runes and a loaf of bread. Picture of the cashpile/items, with your name clearly visible in the chatbox and the cashpile examine also visible (NEEDED):

Atomic radioactive decay merely creates an illusion of randomness, as have the other examples. It is easily predictable precisely because it follows a definitive pattern - just because we haven't fully analyzed the specifics of the causation doesn't mean there isn't one. I'm not sure. But you raised my curiosity. I'm going to talk with a professor about this. Even if chance is ruled out (which I'm not convinced of, since the anthropic principle gives us a huge "luck boost"), you are still jumping to a sentient creator. What if the cause is somehow naturalistic? Unless you would call that God. I mean a a god "who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings". The creator of the Universe needs not care for us, or have created us, or have created the universe for our sake. This hypothetical god that created the physical constants and set the universe in place needs not have created consciousness and "given us" intelligence. To see the world around you and marvel is only natural, but to think it was made all for you is not only arrogant but also illogical. Even assuming there was such a creator in the first place. Are there any religions that do not believe in a soul?

Well, there is atomic radioactive decay, which is random. And I think some quantum effects can be described as random in some objective sense, but I'm not sure. But anyway, I don't really understand what you actually mean by "random chance". We don't know if there was some causality (with or without a creator) behind the beginning of the universe, and it's pretty inane to assign probabilities to this universe having the constants it has, or to life arising in a planet, since we don't know whether there are more universes or lifeforms out there. Then, just because it would be too improbable, it does not follow that a creator (whose existence and complexity is yet to be explained without cop-outs) must have then created the universe. And what if we assumed that the beginning of the universe was too improbable and it must have been created by (a/several) god(s)? It's still a gigantic leap to say he created it did with humans as the pinnacle, no, as the very purpose of all creation. Or that these curious meat beings were endowed with an immortal, immaterial soul that is to be judged by their actions, and rewarded or punished for an eternity by a an all-loving God. Or that he'd care at all about us -we might just be a curiosity in the huge symphony of astronomical events he created for his own delight-.

And you're bound to win the lottery if you keep buying tickets, right? Maybe not you, but someone is bound to win the lottery, yes, just as life would have appeared somewhere. Neither you nor the Earth are special a priori. The reason Earth and nature constants seem so perfect for life is that life adapted to the environment, not the other way around. Isn't it a bit arrogant to think that everything, from the supernovas where the iron in your body was created to the constants that define physics were especially designed and created so that a group of apes could tell another group about Jesus?

Well, the fatty acids from fish are healthier than the saturated/trans fats in "redder" meats, and can be a nice source of protein if you cut out other meats. And it's not that drastic of a change so it should be easier. Go for it. :thumbup:

+1 But it's no good lingering over such things now, is it?

Big post is huge. @sees_all: Is this what you were talking about? Note it requires ignorance of the Gospel and the Church, because it assumes desire, not to be a good person, but desire to be baptised. To the stuff about the axioms, as much as I hate to bring it back, there's something you might have not understood. First, when you take the existence of God as an axiom to a religious debate, you are just screaming close-mindedness. Second, the difference between physical/mathematical axioms and "God exists" is that the former seem to be self consistent, yet I'm not the first that has claimed to see inconsistencies in f.e. Christianity. Third, if you as a scientist found a contradiction to, let's say, Newton's Axioms (inside its accepted bounds), or the laws of Thermodynamics, you'd probably get a Nobel Prize, not excommunicated. On an unrelated note, there's something about Genesis I never understood. Adam and Eve knew it was wrong to take the fruit from the tree, they just didn't know why. They failed to comply, and so started man's fall. Is the meaning of the story that for Christians, the worst sin is not in harming others but in not being blindly obedient? I posted the reasons I lost faith somewhere back in the thread. I'd actually love it to see one of my points addressed (even if I'm not really trying to convince anyone). ------------ @Gorgthurk: I could easily understand that Christianity made you a better person, and that's actually great. But you surely understand that while that means Matthew was a wise moralist, it still says nothing about the existence of God himself. Atheists can be good people too, so it seems you don't need religion to be good, either. Agree? ------------ @Y_Guy: No wonder you think (many) atheists are arrogant if you read Hitchens. :P I personally find the guy to be an ass. ---------- @Zygimantas: It's quite interesting to hear a non-christian for a change. What do you actually believe in?