Goobore

I trained my ranging up to 80 on the 2 lessers on the top of Crandor Island. If you do it right, you don't need any food at all. I always hit the lessers with a Curse spell to pull them over to my safe spot. It doesn't matter if the Curse fails or not. The idea is to pull them over to you. After they die, their loot and your arrows are all in a nice tidy pile in front of you. You, normally, never take any damage at all from them. The master ranging formula is: ArrowsNeeded = ExpNeeded*(1-p)/(2*Maxhit) Where p is the portion of arrows that you pick up and is about 0.75 and Maxhit is the maximum hit for the arrow type for your level. The formulas for Maxhit by range level and arrow type are, roughly Bronze = (Range+14)/9 Iron = (Range+15)/9 Steel = (Range+14)/8 Mith = (Range+13.5)/7.5 Addy = (Range+16)/7 Rune = (Range+18 )/6 So, for a range level of 54 using iron arrows, we have Iron Maxhit ~= (54+15)/9 = 7.6 ~= 7 Exp Needed = 15764 ArrowsNeeded = 15764*(1-0.75)/(2*7) = 282 iron arrows So, I would bring, maybe 300-400 arrows. You might also want to bring teleport runes to teleport to Fally or Lumby as well as Hi-Alch runes for the occasional rune med or mith chain. There are safe spots on the North and East sides of the Lesser area. Hope this helps.

Why? What is stopping you? Do you talk while training?

If you don't mind, could you also provide some timing data for prayer with other drain rates? A complete formula would need to be based upon Prayer level, Bonus, and Drain rate.

I'm presently training fishing as well. (I have 8000 trout/salmon that I need to catch) I take an axe, tinderbox, fly rod, and feathers. That leaves 24 blank spaces. First, I fly fish by the Barbarian village until I have a load of 24 fish. Then, I chop down a tree, light it, and cook all the fish. Finally, I drop the 24 cooked fish in the road for whoever wants them. My cooking is high enough that I never burn them anymore. Cooking a fish gives about 4/3 the exp of catching it, so, if you fish, you can level your cooking quickly as well. I drop the fish because I just want the levels.

The only prayer formula that I have seen is something like Time = 180/Rate Sorry, I don't have more info...

You ought to add the effects of picking up your arrows to the guide and to the ranging calculator. The master equation is ArrowsNeeded*MaxHit*2 = ExpNeeded*(1-p) where p is the portion of arrows that you pick up, typically 0.75 and MaxHit is the max hit that you can do for the arrow that you are using and your range level. This post explained it all... idunedain: Yes, I know what you are talking about and I found that post very interesting. I would love to add this kind of information to the guide, but I cannot do so until we get values for p. This parameter depends on the arrows you use (rune arrows have a smaller chance to dissapear than bronze ones). A study should be done to determine p's values for arrows and then we'll put this formula on the site.

Because PKing is forced on me. I don't have a choice. Paying for it is no problem, but if I became a member then, IMHO, I would be "rewarding" Jagex for a poor game design decision. Instead, I like how the duel arena and castle wars allow the player to choose to fight other players. There are P2P servers and F2P servers. Jagex could implement some special PK servers with increased PK areas to satisfy the dedicated PKer players. Yes, for the 6 additional skills, better training, new quests, and new lands. P2P has a much richer game. No. I pay $15 per month to play another on-line game that doesn't force PKing on you. I would rather pay 3 times as much as P2P does to play another game "my way". I "vote" with my wallet. I'm in the top 200 for F2P skill total. I have 10 skills that are level 80+

Hmmm, I get perfect results when I use that formula with a Floor function. Although your code does look clean. Are you using double precision evaluations?

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. This is not a calculator, it's a guide that presented some formulas on how to account for the long term effects of picking up your arrows. Since ranging does random amounts of damage and breaks random amounts of arrows, there is no way that you can predict in advance what is going to happen. The best that you can do is to use estimates for the damage done and the number of arrows gotten back. In the guide I suggest using Max/2 for the average damage done and 75% arrows gotten back. But I also say, So go ahead and use your own values as you see fit. Use whatever values you think are most accurate. The whole point of my post was to show how to include the effects of picking up your arrows when ranging. (That was the 1/(1-p) thing) I presented tha derivation of the formulas and clearly stated the assumptions that were used so that players could use the best values for damage done and arrows returned to best fit their ranging situation. The formula lets you decide what values to use for average damage and % arrows returned. So rather then complain about "the calculator", maybe you should go figure out what values work best for you. The formula does all the work of putting it all together for you.

No, I didn't In the guide, I wrote:

Hmmm, the 75 value is the non-break rate. So a 75 non-break would be 25% break rate which is close to yours. 'Course, use whatever value you think is most accurate.

I see. My approximation did not use floor or ceil but if I add them in then Level ~= floor(0.5 + ) is exact for levels 19 through 99

Which approximation from page 2 are you comparing to?

According to an earlier post, it's an exponential plus a polynomial. But you can take the discrete summation formula and manipulate it to create a smooth version of the formula. I guess the smooth version would be useful if you wanted to interpolate between levels or understand how the experience curve grows vs level.

Or use the smooth formula

No, I'm not. Some arrows hit 0 and some arrows hit the max. Most arrows hit somewhere between the 2 extremes. The idea is to use an average value for all arrows shot. So if 14 arrows hit 0, 5, 10, 1, 0, 9, 3, 8, 2, 10, 7, 4, 6, 5 The average hit of these 14 shots is 5 which is Max/2 even though 2 of the arrows hit for 0 damage. Look at what is implied in my statement, That means that some arrows will hit more than the average and some will hit less. Some can even hit the max and some can hit a 0. First, your use of A is confusing since I already used it to represent the numbers of arrows involved. Better to use something like "k" to represent the scaling that you want to indicate. Second, we all understand that any particular arrow is going to hit somewhere between 0 and the max. My point of using Max/2 as the average hit per arrow is based upon the assumption that most arrows won't hit the max, most won't hit 0, and most will hit somewhere in between the 2 extremes with an average hit of Max/2. In your nomenclature, that would be a factor of 0.5 Third, the point of my post was to generate some formulas to allow a player to estimate arrows needed and expected experience. In the post I said, In my post I showed where each term came from, so any player could plug in any numbers that they think are better values to use. The formula allows the user to account for the average arrow hit and different amounts of arrows gotten back. Hope this clears up a few things.

You raise a very good question. I observed that I get back about 75% to 80% typically with bronze arrows against lesser demons. I use bronze because I have 10000 of them from various drops, lol But when I have used other arrows It seemed that the Addy arrows were gone very quickly. So, perhaps Jagex has made higher arrows vanish more quickly. Or, perhaps it also depends on the monsters range defense as well. The way to answer your question would be to run an experiment with a 100 or so of each arrow and see if there is a difference. Lots of data from the community would be useful in that regard...

That's exactly what "p" does. It represents the portion of your arrows that you get back. Use whatever value seems right for your current ranging situation.

To emphasize the usefullness of picking up your arrows, look at how many shots you can get with 1000 arrows if you ... pick up none, you get 1000 shots ... pick up 1/4, you get 1333 shots ... pick up 1/2, you get 2000 shots ... pick up 3/4, you get 4000 shots ... pick up 80%, you get 5000 shots ... pick up 90%, you get 10000 shots So if you can pick up your arrows, you can save yourself a lot of time and/or money when ranging.

I don't think that a lot of players in the community are aware of how to estimate the numbers of arrows needed when you do or don't pick up your arrows. This is what you need to do: 1) First, you need to know how much exp you need to earn. You can use the Tip it range calculator to compute how much experience is required. So, to go from level 79 to 80 ranging, I need 187260 range exp. 2) Second, you need to calculate how many total arrow hits are required to earn that experience. You can use the Tip it range damage table At level 79, Iron arrows hit for a max of about 10. So, I'm going to assume that I average half of this max, or max/2. We always earn Range exp equal 4 times the hit, so my average range exp per shot is max/2*4 which is Average Range exp per arrow = 2*Max Therefore, I need 187260/(2*10) = 9363 arrow shots. 3) Third, how many arrows do I need if I do or don't pick them up. If I don't pick up my arrows then I need about 9363 arrows. If I do pick them up then I am only going to be able to get a certain portion of them back and then I will reuse them. Let's call the portion that we get back, p (p will always be between 0 and 1) If we get all of them back, p=1 If we get only 1/3 back, then p=0.333 If we get half back, then p=0.5 In practice, I find that I get about 3/4 back, so p=0.75 So, If I start with 1024 arrows and I shoot all of them then if I am able to pick up 3/4 of them, I'll have 1024*3/4 = 768 remaining. If I then shoot those 768 arrows and pick up 3/4 of them, then I'll have 576 remaining. If I shoot those 576 and pick up 3/4 of them I'll have 432 remaining. And so on and so on and ... So the question is, "How many arrow shots can I get with those 1024 arrows?" If you have been keeping score, we shot 1024+768+576+432+... arrows. If we wrote the above sum in terms of the number of arrows, A, and the portion that we got back, p, then the sum can be expressed as Shots = A + A*p + A*p*p + A*p*p*p + ... or Shots = A*(1 + p + p^2 + p^3 + p^4 + ...) So the issue is how do we handle the sum of these p terms that get smaller and smaller until we run out of arrows. Well, here I wave my magic bow and claim that 1/(1-p) = 1 + p + p^2 + p^3 + p^4 + ... You can perform the long division above and verify that, indeed 1/(1-p) does equal the funny 1+ p + p^2 + ... sum. So, we then have Shots = A*1/(1-p) or A = (1-p)*Shots So, continuing with my example, I needed 9363 shots and I pick up 3/4 of those shots. So I need (1-3/4)*9363 = 2341 arrows to reach my goal :D So the equation to use is ArrowsNeeded = (1-p)*ShotsNeeded So, in summary 1) Use the Tip It range calculator to calculate how much exp you need 2) Use the Tip it range damage vs arrow type table to calculate how many shots you need. It's best to do this 1 level at a time because you max hit goes up with level. The equation is ShotsNeeded = ExperienceNeeded/(2*MaxHit) 3) Calculate the number of arrows needed as ArrowsNeeded = (1-p)*ShotsNeeded Or, you could put it all together in a sort of 'master range formula' as ArrowsNeeded = ExperienceNeeded*(1-p)/(2*MaxHit) where p=0 if you do not pick up and p is about 0.75 if you do So, for my example I get 187260*(1-0.75)/(2*10) or 187260*0.25/20 = 2341 as expected. Now, keep in mind that the long term average of damage done is not always going to be Max/2 and that the portion of arrows gotten back is not always going to be 3/4. So if you don't like my suggested values for Max hit and p then go ahead and use your own values. Now, at least, you have a formula that ties everything all together. Hope this helps.

Jagex will post the information on the Easter holiday item around the time of Easter. Usually, it's a week long event or NPC that you go and find and interact with in some manner. So, we all just have to wait a little bit more to find out more about the little bunnies that we need to help...

You can get about 5 times as many shots if you pick them up... Use a multicombat area. Parts of Fally and the Varrock sewers may work well. You could try shooting from the key room in the Varrock sewers into the 4 zombie room. Those zombies will probably last longer (newbie hunting area) than the mossies further in and it's closer to the bank. Well, with bronze against the Crandor Island lessers I average about 4 damage per shot, so maybe 4*4*1000 = 16k range exp. Hope this helps.

Those 4 yew trees have been there a looooong time...

3 of the answers are colors, so if you just happened to try the answer for a later puzzle when attempting an earlier puzzle, you would jump way ahead. :D

Between each pair of green lines are 8 white or black lines. Let the white lines be 0 and the black lines be 1.